New Bedard Rumor: Reds trump M's offer!

by elrey34 on Jan 10, 2008 1:43 AM EST

The latest from Jason A. Churchill... (See right sidebar)

"The Reds... might have internally agreed to include Homer Bailey, Joey Votto, Johnny Cueto and a fourth player, possibly a young player from their 25-man roster." The fourth player possibly being Edward Encarnacion.

PLLLLLLEEEEEEAAAAAAAASSSSSSEEEEE let the Reds be dumber than the Mariners!! Puh-Puh-Puh-PLLLLLLEEEEAAAAAASSSSSEEEEE!!

[editor's note, by elrey34]1/9 11:00p EDIT -- It seems that Jason is answering questions about this new information from the Reds and his Reds source on his latest post "M's Getting Closer," so I encourage you to leave him a question if you have one.

Tweet Comment 75 comments | 0 recs |

Do you like this story?

Comments

My goodness

That would be such a haul that I refuse to believe it could possibly be true.

by Flynn Blake on Jan 10, 2008 1:46 AM EST reply actions

This would easily...

be the dumbest deal of the whole offseason.

by Zabat @ Minor League Ball on Jan 10, 2008 1:46 AM EST reply actions

+1

Nothing good can come of this. It's either a fake and sad that people will believe it, or it's real and it's sad that it's true. This is one of the most one-sided offers I've seen in years.

by ajake57 on Jan 10, 2008 1:55 AM EST up reply actions

Churchill?

Is he usually fairly solid on rumors? I know it somewhat seems like he outscooped KR (JC was reporting the Sherrill aspect a few days back) and KR but Sherrill in there for discussion. I know he seems pretty adamant against this deal, so I'm just wondering what his history is on rumors, particularly non-Seattle rumors?

That'd be an insane package and if Krivsky were ever foolish enough to offer that, McPhail should take him out to dinner for a whole year, with a other assortment of favors owed. Insane.

by toonsterwu on Jan 10, 2008 1:52 AM EST reply actions

His sources are completely legit.

Of course, the truth panning out of any sources with rumors are hit or miss, but he gets more hits than most. His sources were more reliable a year or two ago, but I trust his name more than almost anyone.

And he's not the only one who's adamant against this deal. Pretty much everyone in the Mariners blogosphere is.

by elrey34 on Jan 10, 2008 2:02 AM EST up reply actions

I should make this clearer.

With that post, I just wanted people to have the right perception of Churchill. I don't claim to know who his sources are or anything, but I just didn't want people to think of him as "just a blogger." He's a respected man among sports journalism in Seattle and has been for a long while. For the last few years he has been a special to the Seattle Post Intelligencer and writes a bi-monthly column for them, The Farm Report, during the season. Before starting his blog Prospect Insider, he wrote about the Mariners farm system for Scout.com. He has many "ins" with the Mariners organization and has befriended many scouts in baseball in general who he keeps in touch with.

He's not the stereotypical saberdweeb with tivo who began his own blog to talk about VORP of players on his favorite team.

by elrey34 on Jan 10, 2008 2:44 AM EST up reply actions

Its a win for the O's

but its not that terrible a deal, if you ask me. Take another look at what youre getting in Erik Bedard again.

In their division this could mean a jump forward into a dominant position. Further, if it results in a playoff appearance/run it makes a lot of sense in that the financial windfall would be large. The value of marginal wins is often overlooked, both baseball wise and financially.

Hell of a haul for the O's, but Im kind of expecting only two of the above three to be included. They only have to beat the M's offer... not blow it out of the water. Even if it is all three theyve overpaid a good bit, but landed a true Ace with two years of control left. Further, theyve done it without giving up their best prospect.

Yeah... I guess I probably wouldnt do this if I were the Reds. Its just sooo much to give up, but Bedard would have a massive effect on their fortunes and their wallet(in a good way). Soooo tempting.

by alskor on Jan 10, 2008 1:57 AM EST reply actions

I think it is debatable if this

puts the Reds in a dominant position. Who's the 1st baseman if Votto is gone? Hatteberg? Or do they finally convince Dunn to move down and give, say, Freel or Hopper the other OF spot? There's still a couple holes in that lineup which may be covered up a bit because of ballpark, and who mans 3rd? Keppinger? Beyond that, it's Bedard/Harang/Arroyo and ?? Arroyo might bounce back and be a decent 3, or he could struggle like last year. Who fills in the back? The pen is improved with Cordero, but I still don't think it's a top pen.

Now all that said, it definitely helps them look much better and gives them that ace they've sorely been lacking. But I think right now, they can compete for the division, and I don't think adding Bedard is going to make them the overwhelming favorites in the division (also thins their chips in regards to making a midseason move), and obviously, long run, they are really hit hard.

by toonsterwu on Jan 10, 2008 2:11 AM EST up reply actions

+1

This would give the Reds three solid #1/#2 type pitchers in a weak division (Bailey isn't looking as good lately anyway IMHO, Votto is duplicative of what they already have, and while I love Cueto, he's a ways off from being as good as Bedard). The O's win the deal, but the Reds might get what they want out of it.

The biggest problem is that it locks the Reds into resigning Dunn if they trade Votto. One would think they'd be in a hurry to get Dunn's contract and inconsistent production off their books, if they think Votto can perform well, but maybe they don't see Votto as an all-star caliber player and would rather keep Dunn anyway.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Jan 10, 2008 11:07 AM EST up reply actions

Inconsistent how?

He has the same season every year dosnt he?

by casejud on Jan 10, 2008 4:44 PM EST up reply actions

so the Reds think Bedard...

...for 2 years is that much more valuable than Johan (or think they could only re-sign Bedard and not Johan)?

if not, this would obviously trump every other Johan offer. by a long shot.

by bleedjaxblue on Jan 10, 2008 1:58 AM EST reply actions

Good point

On that end it doesnt pass the bullshit test.

Then again, Johan hasnt been traded yet. I could see the one year farther away from free agency affecting the price, but not this much.

Then again, the price tag should really have been the same in the first place if you ask me. The only reason it hasnt been hyped up is the O's reluctance to trade him in the division.

Alright, Ill level with you... I have no idea what to think about any of this anymore. Too much info, too many credible sources contradicting each other... any of it could be true or false...

by alskor on Jan 10, 2008 2:06 AM EST up reply actions

+1 on that

besides, there's not always perfect transitivity on trades.

sometimes, worse players net bigger gains, just because two teams got on the phone with each other at the right time, or had pieces the other team did or didn't especially want.

just something to think about really. because it seems like the Reds could offer half of this and be the frontrunners for Johan.

by bleedjaxblue on Jan 10, 2008 2:37 AM EST up reply actions

except

that it doesn't match up well with the Twins desire to obtain a major league ready centerfielder. Plus the pitchers Boston or NY would allegedly be dealing are probably more desired by the Twins than Bailey.

by SLK on Jan 10, 2008 6:27 AM EST up reply actions

yeah

covered above, but probably true. still, it's a pretty disparate value differential, and i'd think the Twins could move part of THIS package for what they did need and get more in return.

i'm thinking the NTC or else the number of year/resignability are more likely issues.

by bleedjaxblue on Jan 10, 2008 5:33 PM EST up reply actions

-1

I doubt Johan would even consider signing an extension with Cincinnati, (assuming they would even pony up the bucks to make it worth his while) making it a certain one year rental. With Bedard, you get a young, up and coming player with 2 more years under your control before the big payday, and even then maybe he'll take a Peavy-type offer instead of a Johan-lite extension. There's more certainty with Bedard.

by Pawtucket Pat on Jan 10, 2008 2:16 PM EST up reply actions

well, yeah

read my post -- that's one of the things i said in those two sentences that must be on the Reds mind.

by bleedjaxblue on Jan 10, 2008 5:31 PM EST up reply actions

Do you think for a second

that after getting a haul such as the one discussed for Bedard, that his agent wouldn't immediately ask for Barry Zito money? I think that sign-ability would still be a HUGE concern

I am just now reaching the age of Dusty Baker prospectdum. maybe i should give Krivsky a call

by Terry Ryan Jr on Jan 10, 2008 9:28 PM EST up reply actions

shut up

and quit posting lies on here so other people will think some deal is going down...that deal will never happen and the orioles wouldn't even ask for that it is so lopsided, i don't care if it was for johan and he had a signed a 5 year extension

by IHateMitchMustain on Jan 10, 2008 2:08 AM EST reply actions

Uncalled for

He's linking a report, not making something up.

That's completely legit for a diary. If you want to knock Churchill, go ahead, but your tone is not appropriate here.

by alskor on Jan 10, 2008 2:14 AM EST up reply actions

+1

Now, maybe the title could be a little clearer by indicating it was a rumor so far, but I don't see a problem with it either.

by toonsterwu on Jan 10, 2008 2:17 AM EST up reply actions

I assumed that was assumed.

I can fix that : )

by elrey34 on Jan 10, 2008 2:22 AM EST up reply actions

You know

that's the second time lately you've told someone in here to "Shut Up." And your post history is pretty poor - a few days worth of really aggressive, offensive, and deliberately obnoxious posts that don't seem intended to even try to add anything to this site.

If you're trying to get attention, yeah, you've been noticed. But not in a good way. Can you explain why anyone here would listen to your posts? Or are you content to just make them even though people aren't going to respect or listen to them?

gogotabata: "I'm like the biggest Walden fan around here (adult division)..."

by siddfynch on Jan 10, 2008 12:32 PM EST up reply actions

Trolls should be shot

I never understood why people would come into a forum like this with that kind of attitude. It really is a shame, but it just shows that nothing good will come from this person.

Ban him I say...mainly since lynchings are illegal these days ;)

Director of Marketing www.fantasyauctioneer.com

by jammerjoe on Jan 10, 2008 12:56 PM EST up reply actions

atta baby

at what point did they let you out of your cage, that is racial discrimination and I don't have to take that, I am calling a lawyer for you saying you are going to lynch me just because i am black...it isn't my fault all of you are so dumb that you think people that post on here are smart

by IHateMitchMustain on Jan 11, 2008 1:18 AM EST up reply actions

MitchMustain?

Why would you hate the third string QB at USC?

by Dfarth on Jan 10, 2008 3:04 PM EST up reply actions

Because he's an Arkansas fan

who Mustain left high and dry

I am just now reaching the age of Dusty Baker prospectdum. maybe i should give Krivsky a call

by Terry Ryan Jr on Jan 10, 2008 9:29 PM EST up reply actions

mustain

has a career ncaa passer rating of 18, wow, what a stud, yeah if i was an arkansas fan I would be crushed that he left

by IHateMitchMustain on Jan 11, 2008 1:17 AM EST up reply actions

So why do you hate him?

by Dfarth on Jan 11, 2008 11:20 AM EST up reply actions

Some comments from Churchill

"I've stopped trusting one of my previous sources this winter because he seemed to be getting bad info and passing it on, so all I have left are reliable people.

This particular source received this information from someone inside the Reds organization, so there is at least some level of truth to it.

It does not mean the deal is going to get done, it doesn't mean that the Reds have actually made that particular offer, at least not yet.

The Encarnacion note bares some speculation by all parties."

"I expect the Reds to max out for Bedard, though. Krivsky is fighting for his job, too. They considered firing him this past November already."

http://prospectinsider.com/2008/01/07/ms-getting-closer/#comments

It should also be noted that Churchill is a Mariners fan.

by alskor on Jan 10, 2008 2:28 AM EST reply actions

Response

dougdirt ftl

I really can't think of anything better to say than that.

by mrkupe on Jan 10, 2008 2:40 AM EST reply actions

hmm

maybe i'll have to eat my words, but this deal is so ridiculously bad for the reds that i refuse to believe it and i doubt the credibility of churchill. that said this trade it would give the AL EAST a ridiculous amount of talent.

by bk11 on Jan 10, 2008 3:52 AM EST reply actions

bk

don't starve yourself waiting to eat those words, that day won't come...be careful though, these people believe when idiots make up stuff, they will brand you a dissenter because you are smarter than them and try and run you out of town...be afraid of the band of idiots

by IHateMitchMustain on Jan 11, 2008 1:22 AM EST up reply actions

Too good to be true

I want to believe this is possible, but I don't see how it could be.

by dkdc on Jan 10, 2008 9:13 AM EST reply actions

I don't buy it

Why would the Reds give up more for Bedard, than teams are willing to cough up for Johan Santana?

I like Bedard, and realize he'll be cheaper salary wise, but to me this makes no sense on the Reds front.

I don't see this rumor ever becoming a fact, as in a done deal.

In Todd Jones (*gulp*) we trust?

by sportznut3081 on Jan 10, 2008 9:35 AM EST reply actions

consider

santana has a no-trade, and there've been implications that he'll only go to NYC or boston. i'm not sure how reliable they are, but it's possible that the reds could be willing to give up more for santana than any east coast team and yet be simply unable to get him for any amount because he won't go there, making bedard their only option.

not saying this is the case, but it might be.

by wily mo on Jan 10, 2008 12:10 PM EST up reply actions

Hmmm

I don't think Johan would care. He will get the most money when he is on the open market so why would he care where he is until that time? I think the Yankees Mets and BoSox would demand that negotiating period and would assume they will get some sort of discount for trading with him. So he could stand to make the most money staying in Min or getting dealt to someone that would not demand the negotiating period.
I have also been waiting for a BoSox or Yanks deal to go through but then be sent back because Johan didn't sign.

by kennythered on Jan 10, 2008 12:52 PM EST up reply actions

You Have a Valid Point

However, I think it might be more about Cincy's williness to trade for and actually give Santana the type of contract he's looking for, and not so much if he'd actually go there or not.

In Todd Jones (*gulp*) we trust?

by sportznut3081 on Jan 10, 2008 2:10 PM EST up reply actions

If

If this trade does happen then Bedard's shoulder or elbow will be shredded by the time Dusty is done.

by JFP on Jan 10, 2008 10:17 AM EST reply actions

I posted this on the diary about Johan to mets...

What could Santana get at the deadline?
If say the Reds were to trade for Johan, since the O's are asking for sooooo much, and its obvious that Johan would only spend the season in cincy, what could Santana get them come the trade deadline. Would a few months of Santana and the prospects recieved at the deadline be worth Bailey Cueto Votto and one other not named Bruce?
And dont say the Twins wouldn't make a deal without Bruce because no one has offered them pitching prospects this damn good.
Hughes and no one else. Deolis Humber and Mulvey, not much. Only Lester < Bailey Cueto

by kennythered on Jan 10, 2008 12:48 PM EST reply actions

trade deadline Santana

he's said in the past that he wont' accept trade in the offseason which makes it moot.

by lexomatic on Jan 10, 2008 12:57 PM EST reply actions

BTW

I noticed that Churchill's blog has been suspended due to too much bandwidth/cpu usage. Anyone else getting the same error?

Director of Marketing www.fantasyauctioneer.com

by jammerjoe on Jan 10, 2008 12:58 PM EST reply actions

If Encarnacion is so cheap,

why can't the Phillies get him? I'd give them Brett Myers for Encarnacion, Cueto and Bailey. Still, cant believe the Reds would give up so much for Bedard

by smittybanton on Jan 10, 2008 1:27 PM EST reply actions

I think Bedard

has significantly more starter value than Myers does right now, moreso than the difference in a Votto (which is the only name you left out). But that's me.

by toonsterwu on Jan 10, 2008 1:41 PM EST up reply actions

well...

Myers just finished his Age 26 season, and was a reliever. In his Age 24 and 25 seasons, both as a starter, you had this

Age 24: 215.1 IP, 193 H, 68 BB, 208 K, 31 HR, 118 ERA+
Age 25: 198.0 IP, 194 H, 63 BB, 189 K, 29 HR, 120 ERA+

Compare that with Bedard's age 24 and 25 seasons

Age 24: 20.0 IP in rookie/shortseason/High A, injured
Age 25: 137.1 IP, 149 H, 71 BB, 121 K, 13 HR, 100 ERA+

Bedard just wrapped up his Age 28 season. He's a year and a half older than Myers, and Myers has thrown over 200 innings more than him. Bedard's ERA+ is much better (118 to 101) largely because Myers was called up to the majors at age 21 and allowed to take his licks for 3 years while the Phillies were not in win now mode. Bedard didn't log a full season until he was 27.

I think Bedard is grossly overrated right now. He's got two good seasons under his belt, well, one good season and one really good season. He's lefthanded, and he has plus stuff. He'll also be 29 on opening day, and he has a litany of injury woes in his past. I don't think I'd trade four elite prospects/players (the Reds offer) or even 3 for him. Over the next 3 years, the Reds would get more value, A LOT more value, out of EE, Bailey, Cueto and Votto than they will out of Bedard, and all combined, for probably a lot less money.

by phuturephillies on Jan 10, 2008 3:29 PM EST up reply actions

Missing a few things

Like every single piece of contextual information you possibly could have included.

Career ERA+ is pretty much meaningless, especially, as you say, since Myers came up early. Bedard, for his part, pitched a full season his first year back from TJ surgery. The vast majority of players take 2 years to return to max effectiveness.

Here's the big one:
Peak season:
Bedard: 146ERA+
Myers: 120ERA+

The fact that he had a down year when converted to the bullpen is a really big strike against him you completely ignore, too. Say what you want about "starter mentality," relieving is a much easier job.

The fact that Myers has more mileage on his arm at a younger age is a negative, not a positive. The extra year and a half don't really mean that much since they're both only under contract for 2 more years. Besides, it's not like Myers has any kind of projection left. The age curve for pitchers is very, very different than the curve for hitters. Age-relative-to-season is a meaningless comparison.

The injury question is a valid one, but if you put any stock into makeup the fact that Myers has a violent assault on his record might do something to mitigate his health advantage.

Myers at his best was a comfortably above average starter. Bedard at his best is a cy young contender. He's also been better in a tougher division in a tougher league. Bedard's more valuable.

Reporting on Baseball from around the world! http://globalbaseball.wordpress.com

by jhelfgott @ Minor League Ball on Jan 10, 2008 4:48 PM EST up reply actions

well...

"He's also been better in a tougher division in a tougher league."

ERA+ takes those into account. I'm not saying Myers = Bedard. I'm saying Bedard is older, and Bedard has only put together 2 seasons that would indicate he's worth anything close to the guys being bandied about.

by phuturephillies on Jan 10, 2008 5:31 PM EST up reply actions

Salary

I'm inclined (in general) to agree with you about Myers v. Bedard, but in the trade context you also need to consider contract years/salary, right?

It turns out both are under contract for two more years, with Bedard subject to arbitration and Myers locked in at $8.5M and $12M respectively.

Bedard avoided arb last year by compromising on a $3.4M last year. Even if that salary doubles for 2008, he'll still be cheaper than Myers.

by Yakker on Jan 10, 2008 8:08 PM EST up reply actions

Why would the phillies do this again?

Take out their #2 starter for Bailey, I'm presuming, who is going to be, what, a #4 this year? That's if you're optimistic. I admit, the Phils could definitely use an Encarnacion. But then you're still hung with Helms and Dobbs doing nothing on your bench. Add that to the fact that you've weakened the worst part of the team and strenghtened the best and you're not making any sense with this sort of speculation. The Phils need Myers to compete in the NL East this year.

by ajake57 on Jan 10, 2008 7:24 PM EST up reply actions

I have a hard time believing this

if Krivsky called the Twins right now and offered Bailey, Votto, Cueto and Encarnacion Id have to think Johan would be a Red tommorow.

by Roo @ Minor League Ball on Jan 10, 2008 2:44 PM EST reply actions

Because...

Votto isnt a CF.... Minnesota's biggest need

by Darce on Jan 10, 2008 2:48 PM EST up reply actions

Also, Johan's NTC. Won't accept to CIN.

by elrey34 on Jan 10, 2008 2:50 PM EST up reply actions

No offense, but I don't see the lack of a CF

stopping the Twins from pulling off that trade if they were offered that.

Hello Darce,

With that amount of projectable talent, I think the Twins would pull the deal on that if Santana was willing to go to Cincinnati - they could find someone to fill the CF spot for a year or two if need be, whether it would be a Minor League Free Agent, a Minor Leaguer they have in their system (like Denard Span, perhaps, though I'm not sure he's ready for the Majors,) or even a MLer already on their roster (perhaps Nick Punto - I thought I heard rumors that he could be used in the OF, especially CF, though I may be mistaken on that.)

In any event, I can't see where not having a CFer in that package would prevent the Twins from making that proposed trade, as that trade is arguably more valuable than any proposed deal they've gotten from the Yankees and Red Sox to this point, and chances are, the Twins are going to need a year or two to really contend for the AL Central anyway, even if they trade Johan for the current Yankees or Red Sox packages, so they might as well go for the best package available, and arguably, this package has the most projectable talent to it.

Plus, if they really wanted to, they probably could spin off a Votto or even a Bailey for a quality CF prospect if they really wanted to acquire a long-term CFer. However, if Bailey can harness his command, he'd be that near-term frontline starter they'd like to have to help replace Johan's production. And Votto could form a 1B/DH tandem with Morneau, and as we all know, the Twins could still use some offensive upgrades, even with the addition of Young to their lineup.

Therefore, I don't think the lack of a CFer would stop them from making this deal IF Santana was amenable to a trade to Cincinnati, which supposedly, he isn't at this point, so that would be the major roadblock to a deal like this, not the fact that there is no CF prospect in that deal.

Just my 2 cents - no offense.

Take care and have a great day!

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on Jan 10, 2008 7:11 PM EST up reply actions

If this deal DOES go down...

I really hope it does, cause then it opens up for a desperate Bill Bavasi to deal Adam Jones and co for Joe Blanton.

by Zonis on Jan 10, 2008 3:11 PM EST reply actions

I've got a hard time

seeing Bavasi do that. Certainly Beane would step right up and be cool. But as much pressure as Bavasi may be under, I just don't think they would be willing to trade Adam Jones and have to deal with that if he pans out. I think if he misses on Bedard, I really wonder if he just doesn't let Morrow run with it as the 5th starter behind Felix/Wash/Silva/batista and see if his chips don't develop to potentially set himself up for a midseason deal for another arm if need be.

by toonsterwu on Jan 10, 2008 3:13 PM EST up reply actions

bavasi wont trade within division

especially jones and thats who the A's would want

would they do a lesser deal w/ tillman/butler/trunifial/morrow/balentein...3 from this group

i just see any interdivision trade unlikely

on the flipide i hope santana goes to mets, which might open up some NY/BOS prospects for a possible street deal

blanton...i still think dodgers/reds are the best spots. maybe a combo deal of chavez/blanton to dodgers for laroche/hu or dejesus/mcdonald/elbert etc

by rayver723 on Jan 10, 2008 3:30 PM EST up reply actions

DO IT!!!!

Just for the opportunity to see Loewen, Cabrera, Bailey, and Liz all in the same rotation. What's the record for BBs by one team's pitching staff? I think a staff of the Walking Dudes could demolish the current record. I'm talking 4 SPs with over 100 BBs each. AWESOME!

"My mom always taught me it's better to laugh at yourself than to laugh at others. She was so wrong. ;)" -Pedrophile

by Boxkutter on Jan 10, 2008 3:24 PM EST reply actions

Nice deal for the O's

And BTW, it's Edwin.

Anyway, if Bailey, Cueto, Votto & Encarnarcion end up as the deal, the M's gotta offer Jones, Clement, Morrow, Triunfel, Balentin & Johjima.

The Reds, meanwhile, are going to be pretty fearsome.

by METSMETSMETS on Jan 10, 2008 3:26 PM EST reply actions

I knew that : )

by elrey34 on Jan 11, 2008 3:45 AM EST up reply actions

generally

If the Reds or Mariners offer the rumored packages, this will turn out worse than the Kazmir trade did for New York.

by phuturephillies on Jan 10, 2008 3:30 PM EST reply actions

No it won't

Both packages are too much value to give up, but that's ridiculous hyperbole and you know it.

Reporting on Baseball from around the world! http://globalbaseball.wordpress.com

by jhelfgott @ Minor League Ball on Jan 10, 2008 4:52 PM EST up reply actions

really?

Take a step back.

2 years of Erik Bedard for

6 years of Homer Bailey
6 years of Joey Votto
6 years of Johnny Cueto
4 years of Edwin Encarnacion

The Mets gave up 6 years of Scott Kazmir for a bunch of junk. Giving up 22 years of potential league average-elite talent is far worse than giving up 6 years of Scott Kazmir.

by phuturephillies on Jan 10, 2008 5:33 PM EST up reply actions

correction

3 years of EE, right? Not 4. The point remains.

by phuturephillies on Jan 10, 2008 5:35 PM EST up reply actions

um

isn't there a 2nd team in this trade too? 2 years of erik bedard is worth a lot. 1 year of victor zambrano isn't. in fact, it ended up being worth even less than 0 years of victor zambrano.

by jpahk on Jan 10, 2008 5:42 PM EST up reply actions

right

But I'd still take 21 years of the above over 2 years of Bedard, especially because I have my doubts about Bedard long term.

by phuturephillies on Jan 10, 2008 7:02 PM EST up reply actions

In fact

Many teams would happily pay a steep price to go from 1 year of Victor Zambrano to 0 years of Victor Zambrano.

"[Diego Guerra's] changeup is comparable [to Cole Hamel's]...IMO [Cameron] maybin is overrated and [Carlos] gomez could eclipse him in 1 good season"-robcast23

by alskor on Jan 10, 2008 7:32 PM EST up reply actions

Actually

the Kazmir trade was for 3+ years of Victor Zambrano. He was still pre-arb when he was traded. He just turned out to be a lemon.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Jan 10, 2008 8:34 PM EST up reply actions

And

believe it or not, before he got hurt, he was an above league average pitcher with some upside left.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Jan 10, 2008 8:34 PM EST up reply actions

Reds offer

If there is any truth to the Bailey, Votto, Cueto, Encarnacion offer for Bedard it should be done without hesitation.
The Orioles will have some serious talent as well as depth if they shed Roberts to the Cubs.

BLOW IT UP & rebuild the right way Peter!!!

Ted Williams:.406 still stands.

by bodyiq on Jan 10, 2008 8:05 PM EST reply actions

either

this is the dumbest deal of the season or it's the diary that wins.

by pedrophile on Jan 10, 2008 8:23 PM EST reply actions

This won't happen

If it does, I'm switching to the Indians...at least until I cool down.

I don't think Krivsky is an idiot. Every GM makes mistakes but not too many of them are good at finding undervalued, young talent. Krivsky has shown the aforementioned ability.

At the most, the Reds will give up 2 of those guys. In my opinion, that would still be too much. I could live with giving up one of the pitchers though.

Arizona didn't give up as much for Haren. Isn't Haren considered more valuable because his contract situation is better than Bedard's? The rumored trade is way out of line with the precedent set by the Dbags-Ass trade.

by Snake the Jake on Jan 10, 2008 8:33 PM EST reply actions

Good points

And this is why I just can't believe this to be true. I understand that these Reds players are just prospects, but they all look to have a decent if not very good future in MLB.

Ted Williams:.406 still stands.

by bodyiq on Jan 10, 2008 9:39 PM EST up reply actions

Dude just switch anyway

National League... ewwwww...

"[Diego Guerra's] changeup is comparable [to Cole Hamel's]...IMO [Cameron] maybin is overrated and [Carlos] gomez could eclipse him in 1 good season"-robcast23

by alskor on Jan 10, 2008 9:41 PM EST up reply actions

Then again, we are talking about Wayne Krivsky!

Ordinarily I would immediately reject this rumor as absolute nonsense. However, I still suffer from the aftershocks of the deal Krivsky made to obtain the relief help the Reds needed to win the NL Central in 2006 (lol). He actually gave up Austin Kearns, Felipe Lopez and Ryan Wagner to acquire the likes of Gary Majewski and Bill Bray (not to mention Royce Clayton!). I am not suggesting that Kearns and Lopez should not have been used as bait to acquire pitching help but Majewski and Bray? That's the best he could do for Kearns and Lopez? Unbelievable!

I do give credit to Krivsky for the shrewd moves to obtain Brandon Phillips and Josh Hamilton. However, he obviously suffers periodic brain cramps and if he is actually offering the package discussed in this thread he needs immediate medical attention.

by Oklahoma Senator on Jan 11, 2008 10:36 AM EST reply actions

This trade won't happen

and if it does, I will probably be in jail for stabbing Krivsky in the face.

That would be the dumbest trade offer I have ever seen in my entire life.

Eric Bedard has 1 full season under his belt with more than 30 starts to his name. Is he really good? Yeah, he is. However he has shown that he has no ability thus far in his career to pitch a full season.

Does 2 years of hoping you can even get a full season out of him really equate to Bailey, Cueto, Votto and Encarnacion?

Last month the Orioles supposedly asked for Bailey, Cueto and Votto for Bedard and the Reds turned that deal down according to John Fay of the Cincinnati Enquirer. Now all of a sudden they are adding another player to the trade so they can bring back Melvin Mora who isn't as good as the third baseman they would be trading away?

Not a chance there is any validity to this rumor.

http://www.redsminorleagues.com

by dougdirt on Jan 11, 2008 5:54 PM EST reply actions