Ankiel to be called up soon

by Mean Dean on Aug 5, 2007 2:42 PM EDT Comment 33 comments

Cards' La Russa expects Ankiel to 'be here in September'

Rick Ankiel's long wait to return to the major leagues could be over soon.
The pitcher-turned-outfielder's power numbers at Triple-A Memphis have earned him a callup to the St. Louis Cardinals -- possibly this month, manager Tony La Russa said Friday.
"There's no doubt he'll be here in September," La Russa said before his club's game against the Washington Nationals. "Whether he gets here before September, that remains to be discussed."

Ankiel's line is 271/317/571, with 31 HR in 380 AB. 85 K vs. 24 BB, however. I wonder if the majors will exacerbate that and he will be a Jose Hernandez type hitter with power, but crazy strikeouts and no walks. I also wonder how his defensive range is. He was playing CF in the minors, so maybe it's good. Presumably his throwing arm is ok ;-)

In any event, no matter how he does in the bigs, this is an unbelievable accomplishment, as he overcomes both a very late start and a deep-seated psychological problem.

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Could be his discipline will develop

he's got a lot of potential... clearly, he has a power stroke, and I think that the discipline might be something to develop if he's given enough AB's. I'm worried bout that at the MLB level -- if he starts every year, his discipline might be okay in 2-4 years. If he doesn't, then he will regress -- he's missed out on thousands of ABs over the past few years b/c he pitched... It's really difficult to catch up to that. Regardless, an incredible accomplishment in a year of unlikely accomplishments (who should win comeback player -- Greinke, Hamilton, or Ankiel? If Dukes comes back, wow).

by mroak89 on Aug 5, 2007 3:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Wait

What does your personal opinion of him have to do with him being comeback player of the year?

Sure, he's crazy. But, that doesn't have anything to do with him as a ballplayer. And if he can get it together and come back, why isn't he deserving?

Talkin' Sports

by BlackOps on Aug 5, 2007 4:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Eligible?

What would make Dukes eligible for Comeback Player of the year?

My impression of a comeback player is someone who experienced success, was out the the league for an extended period of time (for many reasons, whether it be injury, illness, retirement, whatever) and somehow manages to comeback as a productive player again (hence the term comeback.)

Dukes never experienced even a moderate amount of success in the majors. (I could careless about the 10 bombs, no matter how you slice it, 190/318/391 is just bad.)

Take the personal stuff aside (which most writers will not do) and all you have is a young player who struggled in his initial exposure to the show.

If he has not exceeded the requirements I could understand a possible run at 2008 ROY, but he is not a comeback player because he was never anything in the majors in the first place.

This same argument appplies to Josh Hamilton. I am very happy to see this guy doing what he is. But again, I do not buy putting his name in any discussion for comeback player, because he has comeback to anything at the major league level.

by bl on Aug 5, 2007 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Your impression

is not my impression. So if you're going to base all of your commentary on it, I may as well base mine off of mine.

Dukes has been to the pits of hell. If he experiences success in the big-leagues, that's comeback quality. Comeback isn't just about being successful after sucking or something like that, to me "Comeback" is about hitting rock bottom, and coming back shining.

Although, since you're consistent w/ Hamilton, IMO your point is extremely valid. I just happen to disagree with it -- no offense meant.

by mroak89 on Aug 5, 2007 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That is fair.

I respectfully agree to disagree on the matter of what makes a player a candidate for Comeback Player of the Year.

by bl on Aug 5, 2007 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

never have i been

so delighted to disagree ;-)

by mroak89 on Aug 6, 2007 1:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

which is to say

i like that we're agreeing to disagree, it's the best way to disagree

by mroak89 on Aug 6, 2007 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

dukes on the field

leaving aside all of the other issues here - and i agree to an extent that for a player to really be considered to be 'coming back' he ought to have been 'there' first in a way that dukes has not - i think you're underselling his performance.

at the end of may he was hitting .223/.347/.473 - an 820 OPS, not bad for anybody and excellent for a rookie. despite the low batting average, his discipline and power were outstanding. this was substantially better than higher-rated prospects like gordon, delmon, or chris young were doing at the time. he then proceeded to go 2 for 36 in june before being shut down; it's easy to feel like he was a little distracted at that point, given that his personal life was on fire for some time before he stopped playing. not that it's encouraging that that happened, certainly - but i think looking at his on-field performance this year as disappointing in and of itself is a mistake. ryan braun notwithstanding, rookie hitters rarely debut in full form, and dukes had a more robust initial performance than many.

by wily mo on Aug 6, 2007 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

comeback

You bring up a good point. Shouldn't the Comeback POY be someone who came back from, say, a major injury, rather than from a thuggishness-induced sabbatical from baseball?

It's an interesting question, I think, and it has some effect on how the Hamilton comeback is viewed, too. I think some people would have an easier time accepting Hamilton as a comeback player b/c there has been more time b/t his self-destructive behavior and his current success, whereas Dukes has exhibited some pretty wacky behavior just in the last few weeks/months.

I could see Dukes deserving the award if he sits out the rest of this year, cleans up his act before next year, and has a good season in 2008 wihtout any off-field crap.

by BravesinO7 on Aug 5, 2007 4:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

comeback award

don't you have to have actually done something in the big leagues then miss time then come back to win the award? hitting .190 in a little over 50 games isn't doing much.

josh hamilton is a great story, but he never made the big leagues before this season. you can't be the comeback player of the year if there is technically no comeback.

by fewgoodcards on Aug 5, 2007 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Comeback

He may not have played in the majors before, but he was out of pro baseball for like 3 years, which I think has to count for something. Not sure if I'd have him winning mind you, but that's a pretty big deal, at least for me.

Rios is the next Juan Gonzales, thats right, I said it.

by KaoticKlown on Aug 5, 2007 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well

Vin baker was a Comeback POY in the NBA, his problems were similarly self-induced. I disagreed with that call as well, but there it is.

God rested one day out of 7, Felix rests 4 out of 5.

by CrimsonLiederhosen on Aug 5, 2007 6:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

my bad

That should say Comeback POY CANDIDATE

God rested one day out of 7, Felix rests 4 out of 5.

by CrimsonLiederhosen on Aug 5, 2007 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually

I was referring to hamilton.
Right now, being fat is a practically a disease, I don't see either as being issue deserving issues for POY.

God rested one day out of 7, Felix rests 4 out of 5.

by CrimsonLiederhosen on Aug 6, 2007 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

hahaha

so true

by mroak89 on Aug 6, 2007 1:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"comeback"

there's no definition of what it means to be comeback player of the year. last year mike lowell was getting some talk for the award, but he himself said something like "you shouldn't get it just because you sucked last year. you should have to actually come back from something."

i think hamilton is a pretty good candidate, even though his "comeback" is from never having played in the majors before. ankiel would be cool, though. i've heard that guy has a stik. can anybody verify this?

by jpahk on Aug 5, 2007 6:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Who're you to say

that Dukes doesn't have severe psychological issues? To me it seems that all indications are he has severe psychological issues as well. Maybe he doesn't have depression or something like that a la Greinke (which is not to trivialize depression, because it can be a severely debilitating problem), but to me he has some sort of ghetto PTSD. Or some other psychological issues anyway -- I shouldn't diagnose him, and neither should you

by mroak89 on Aug 5, 2007 7:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Offensive

Yeah, that's kind of offensive, but it's not necessarily racist or even entirely improbable. Dukes did grow up in an area that could be described as 'ghetto' and I imagine growing up in such a difficult environment WOULD be stressful and/or traumatic. What might be acceptable in the environment he grew up in is not necessarily acceptable in the environment and situation he now finds himself in.

God rested one day out of 7, Felix rests 4 out of 5.

by CrimsonLiederhosen on Aug 5, 2007 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why is it offensive?

He did grow up in a ghetto -- this isn't something I made up because I figure he's a troubled black man, and therefore grew up in a ghetto. His dad was convicted of murder when the kid was 11, he lived in a place where crack cocaine is a prevalent drug. His parents used it, even if his neighborhood wasn't the worst of areas (and living in Philly, near such bad neighborhoods, I've seen some pretty bad areas), the abuse of crack cocaine by his parents at such a young age is more than enough to permanently traumatize him. I know it would traumatize me.

You say you "imagine growing up in such an environment would be stressful and/or traumatic." The key is, you "imagine" this... It's very different to actually be a part of it.

I don't think what's acceptable in his environment should at all be acceptable in any environment, and it's not that what he's doing is okay... it's just that there are mitigating circumstances that put his life into perspective that, when rating his potential as a major leaguer, we absolutely have to take into perspective.

by mroak89 on Aug 6, 2007 1:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Additionally

I referred to Dukes as a candidate next year, I believe. And forgive me if I did not, I intended to.

by mroak89 on Aug 5, 2007 7:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

It's interesting how

people convict a person without knowing or considering any mitigating circumstances. I truly hope that you have not had to go through 1/10 of what Elijah Dukes has had to go through to get to his level, and if you have and you're at a similar point in life or more successful (I don't mean monetarily or career wise), then you're simply one of a kind. It is unbelievably (and I stress that word -- unbelievably) difficult to overcome the kind of childhood and trauma that Dukes went through. That's why the ghetto life is still a predominant issue in American culture. It is a vicious, nearly unbreakable cycle that the extremely vast majority of people are not given the means or are unable to escape from.

That we hear about a few success stories from people who rose above the ghetto life is simply an indication of how difficult that life is. And, we only hear a few. Out of millions of souls who have experienced, are experiencing, or will experience ghetto life, we hear at most a couple dozen. Even if it were a couple hundred, the odds are stacked. To write off Dukes is shameful, when he has already come so far against all odds (we're baseball folk, we should appreciate the intimidating odds that "one in a million" represents).

So yes, if Dukes becomes a reformed man, I think it's criminal if MLB doesn't reward that in some way, or try and make him a poster child or something. Every example we get needs to be glorified and illustrated in the attempt to fight that ugly, unfortunate, unavoidable culture as a shining light, if you will, of what can be achieved.

by mroak89 on Aug 5, 2007 8:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Truth has been spoken.

by SenorGato88 on Aug 5, 2007 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Truth has been spoken.

Seriously...if Hamilton can come back from where he went...why is Dukes thrown away so quickly?

Then again...no one really saw Hamilton doing this so there was never much debate on the subject.

by SenorGato88 on Aug 5, 2007 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Question

This thread is supposedly about Rick Ankiel and his comeback. How did Dukes get dragged in here? Mahalo

Matt

I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

by WayneCampbell05 on Aug 6, 2007 6:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

well

i commented that ankiel's comeback was fantastic, mentioned that there've been an incredible number of comebacks this year, and noted that if dukes comes back next year, "wow"

all hell broke loose from there

by mroak89 on Aug 6, 2007 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Comeback

Like Baker, i don't think Hamilton deserves to be a candidate, his problems were of his own making (drugs/roids). Ankiel is, IMO, the best candidate out there. Just earning a trip back to the majors is a huge accomplishment in his situation.

God rested one day out of 7, Felix rests 4 out of 5.

by CrimsonLiederhosen on Aug 5, 2007 9:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Crimson

whose making was Ankiels problems? Wasn't it a fragile psyche that lead to the breakdowns? Similar to the Josh scenario IMO.

ps: there are no rules on this award. The league picks 6 guys and the fans vote on it.

Lester and Josh Hamilton are my picks. I'd make them co-winners.

pps: Yeah Josh ruined his whole life. But it's huge to recover.

ppps: Every single player that stinks - it was their own making. It wasn't like the managers made them fail. Unless your name is Prior and your manager is Dusty.

by pedrophile on Aug 5, 2007 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

like bl

you are pretty consistent at least. I think i would only take issue w/ people who think Hamilton should have a chance to win a comeback POY award, but Dukes shouldn't have a chance. To me, they're kind of similar situations, as is any player who has to go through personal hell to reach the top of the mountain

by mroak89 on Aug 6, 2007 1:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

alcohol is a disease?

how come it only affects those who CHOOSE to drink alcohol? Funny thing that.

I'd have to say being an abusive jerk is a disease. If you CHOOSE to be that way. LOL.

Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary - Cite This Source

Main Entry: dis·ease
Pronunciation: diz-'Ez
Function: noun
: an impairment of the normal state of the living animal or plant body or one of its parts that interrupts or modifies the performance of the vital functions and is a response to environmental factors (as malnutrition, industrial hazards, or climate), to specific infective agents (as worms, bacteria, or viruses), to inherent defects of the organism (as genetic anomalies), or to combinations of these factors : SICKNESS, ILLNESS called also morbus; --compare HEALTH 1 --dis·eased -'Ezd adjective

by pedrophile on Aug 6, 2007 2:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Under Pedrophile's definition

which I think is good, then alcoholism and drug abuse aren't diseases so much as conditions... In fact, I think Dukes' situation could be more defined as a disease, since his environment caused potentially irreversible harm to his ability to function.

And I think you're trivializing Dukes' lifestyle. Again, we can agree to disagree because you're consistent, but you're also being slightly hypocritical... are you telling me millions of americans aren't self-centered wife abusers? Dukes is not a good person, but that's because of his upbringing, not a fault of his. Hamilton, for all we know, is in the same boat, but for all we know could have gone through self-inflicted hell. We definitely know that Dukes' hell is not self-inflicted.

Unfortunately, I have doubts that his life is turned around too. But if he does, he needs to be celebrated, and in my opinion should be eligible for coming back from personal hell.

by mroak89 on Aug 6, 2007 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs