Great read - Josh Hamilton - Minor League Ball

Great read - Josh Hamilton

by pedrophile on Aug 26, 2007 4:02 AM EDT Comment 32 comments

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2926447

I think this is a great read for anyone. For those that are cheering for him they will especially enjoy. For those that don't because he put himself there - maybe they'll learn empathy.

What Lester went through was scary and life threatening. And an obvious triumph. What Ankiel did was unbelievable from the struggles as well as the arm problems.

Neither of them were self-inflicted and they should be celebrated.

but ...

if I was in some car accident and almost died - I would cherish life and it would be something to come back. But I wouldn't see that the same as someone doing what Josh has done and is doing. The guy screwed up his life. But he is doing something huge. Not only turning it around but being a huge example for others. This guy is a hero in the true sense of the word. He is flawed. He screwed up. He is making huge efforts to help himself and to help others. He is accommodating to the fans and the media. He relishes the chance to make it bigger than baseball.

Personally I never understood the "you screwed it up you deserved it". I've made plenty of mistakes as well. Nothing like what he did. But then again I've not had to live his nightmare of a life. And huge comeback.

Thoughts?

Poll

What will Josh end up as?

Bust - by talent

3 votes

Bust - back on drugs

10 votes

Solid MLB player

40 votes

Occasional All-Star

48 votes

Perrenial All-Star (superstar)

9 votes

110 votes | Poll has closed

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subject

I always had a soft spot for Josh. I knew he would make it back and I'm glad to see it. Hopefully he can stay strong.

by Josh on Aug 26, 2007 8:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

+1

I have a lot of faith in this guy, and I believe he can stay strong.

A lot of people seem to think that the soft spot that a lot of us have for Hamilton is due to his immense baseball ability. For me, it goes much deeper than this; Hamilton is representative of all those people who make one misstep followed by another, and sink deeper and deeper into a hole that they can't pull themselves out of. Hamilton was special in that he found the power to pull himself out of this hole, through family and faith. For this reason, he really is an inspiration to all those who have made mistakes in life and seek redemption.

by MontrealMets on Aug 26, 2007 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

that's beautiful

Thanks for posting.

by whichthat on Aug 26, 2007 10:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

great great read

thanks!

Curtis Granderson fan

by jrose643 on Aug 26, 2007 10:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

been there

I followed Hamilton since he was drafted, and always thought he would make an impact. I myself am a recovering heroin addict, I let it rule my life for six agonizing years. Through the grace of god and family I have now been clean fo three years as of last March. W hen I was using I kind of fell out of the baseball loop for a while, but I was always intrigued by Hamiltons path. When I did get clean I became an even bigger baseball fan than I was before, and still am. I hoped beyond hope that Hamilton could find his way back. I became so frustrated reading all the ney sayers articles about him. Nobody, and I mean nobody (including myself) knows what he had to endure to get where he is today. Godspeed Josh!

DIECAPSULE

by mrcardinal on Aug 26, 2007 11:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

congrats to you

and hoping you never go down that road again.

by pedrophile on Aug 26, 2007 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

that was very good. thanks for the link

"Nobody can insult me as much as I've insulted myself."-Josh Hamilton

by daveh33 on Aug 26, 2007 11:21 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

hero?

That's going more than just a little bit too far. Where is the self-sacrifice? Where are the unfair twists of fate? Hamilton's problems were problems of selfishness and egotism, that he got back on track to achieve a career of fame and ridiculous fortune is hardly heroic.
This is not simply a problem with the Hamilton story, it's a problem with the way so many people use the word 'hero' today.
Hamilton is a great story, but he's no hero.

God rested one day out of 7, Felix rests 4 out of 5.

by CrimsonLiederhosen on Aug 26, 2007 6:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

-1

I see where you're coming from, but if an addict (or someone close to one) wants to call the guy a hero because he brings hope where hope is lost, I'm not going to say they're wrong.

by whichthat on Aug 26, 2007 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

actually

Hamilton, IMO meets many of the requirements on the "Hero's Journey". In fact I think its a stretch to find ways how he is not a hero.

I would hardly think that drug addiction is a "selfish" or "egotistical" endeavour, and I don't know how you can't see any self sacrifice. I'm also at a loss how you don't see that a #1 draft pick succumbing to a crippling drug addiction is an unfair twist of fate.

Hamilton is easily a hero, and I would like to hear also this "problem" with the way people use the word hero today.

by wildthang on Aug 26, 2007 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

unfair

Unfair would be something done to him, his problems were completely and totally self-inflicted. Drug abuse is an issue of selfishness. You drink, pop pills, shoot up, etc. to make yourself feel good (or less worse) regardless of the consequences for anyone else.
As for self-sacrifice, there was quite a bit of self-destructiveness, but that is not even close to the same as an act of self-sacrifice.

God rested one day out of 7, Felix rests 4 out of 5.

by CrimsonLiederhosen on Aug 26, 2007 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

self sacrifice

So you don't see the fact that after every game he talks to fans and always answers questions about the addiction and uses this to help others? To be a source of inspiration.

The addiction wasn't self sacrifice. What he is doing with fans right now is.

by pedrophile on Aug 26, 2007 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This

is a dangerously limited view of addiction.

Don't get me wrong, there's a lot a person can do to control their actions. But acting like it's just a switch someone can flip is asinine. On some level, will power and self-control are things doled out much the same way as athletic ability: you can definitely work to improve yours, but everyone doesn't start out with the same amount.

In most cases, it's a learning process (you don't mature instantaneously). For some, it's a more difficult process than others, and if nothing else, Hamilton's story can be a reason for others to hope that some day, they might reach the point where they can beat their issue.

With all that said, I was somewhat disappointed that the story never really discussed the process he went through. It was basically, "everything was really bad, I said 'God, please help', and then things worked out". I imagine it was much more difficult than that, and I think the omitted stuff (the part where it's an every-day thing, having to confront temptation everywhere and eventually working yourself out of the bad situations) is important.

But maybe he's saving it for the book deal.

by mraver on Aug 27, 2007 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

As for the story

The story is out there, it just hasn't really been rehashed since he hit the bigs. There is a lot more to it if you followed the Josh Hamilton saga while the saga was still ongoing. Every few months something would come out about how he was back in rehab, who was helping him, then he'd slip back into addiction. I'm sure the stories are still out there somewhere, ready to be googled, but considering how much has been written about him this year (most of it more about his successes than his failures), it might be near impossible to find now. But there was a lot more to it than has been written this year.

by MontrealMets on Aug 27, 2007 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Definiton of Hero

a man of distinguished courage or ability, admired for his brave deeds and noble qualities.
a person who, in the opinion of others, has heroic qualities or has performed a heroic act and is regarded as a model or ideal: He was a local hero when he saved the drowning child.
the principal male character in a story, play, film, etc.
Classical Mythology. a. a being of godlike prowess and beneficence who often came to be honored as a divinity.

b. (in the Homeric period) a warrior-chieftain of special strength, courage, or ability.
c. (in later antiquity) an immortal being; demigod.

hero sandwich.
the bread or roll used in making a hero sandwich.

So lets see.

#1- I would say combating and addiction, which is a disease, is pretty courageous, opening up and telling everyone his story so others can learn is also pretty courageous.

#2- Well obviously a lot of people think he has heroic qualities or we wouldnt be debating.

#3- Doesnt apply

#4- Doesn't apply

#5,#6- nothing to do with this although I wish I was eating one.

So it seems by the definition of a Hero that Josh Hamilton is one. Being a hero isnt a universal thing. Someone can be my hero that the rest of the world doesnt think is a hero. Its an individual quality and I think its plenty fair to say what Hamilton did is very heroic and to a lot of poeple he is probably a hero.

by Kanst42 on Aug 27, 2007 8:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

definition #2

"AND is regarded as a model or ideal"

that's the part of that definition that it's not so clear Hamilton fits, and why i think some may question if Hamilton is a hero in the traditional sense.

i have no opinion one way or the other on if he is a hero -- he fits definition #1 most likely, but really DOESN'T fit definition #2 -- but do find it amusing that the consensus is so strongly in favor of him BEING a hero, when so many similar stories don't evoke similar sympathy.

by bleedjaxblue on Aug 27, 2007 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

well

I think for the people fighting addictions or with family or friends fighting addictions he does qualify under #2.

The family/friend is addicted just like Josh. Josh has started to put his life together and speak out about drugs and show how people can recover. To those people he is much more of a hero than someone that never faltered.

Everyone says it's his fault. No shit. Everyone says you shouldn't start taking these drugs. No shit.

Does a person who has never taken drugs and never gone through hell like Josh has - do they evoke ANYTHING for someone that is a struggling drug addict? They don't need to be told "it's your fault", I think they know.

Does someone that went through everything they have and beaten terrible odds not only to survive but to become a triumph as well as speaking whenever possible - is this a hero to them? No shit :P

Most of the people who don't see him as a hero are looking through their own perspective. But those looking from someone elses perspective can usually see how easily he fits the hero label.

just my opinion. (but it's right)

by pedrophile on Aug 27, 2007 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

from who's perspective....

....does he fit the definition of "model" or "ideal"?

there's NO ONE who would want to go what Josh Hamilton went through. if we're going by relativism, at least Pablo Escobar is an "ideal" for some people.

Hamilton fits half of definition two -- he has heroic qualities/performed a heroic act -- but he most certainly does not fit it all.

"perspective" is great, but it really stretches the definition of the word to say that "ideal" refers to: 1) specifically the perspective of drug addicts, who 2) realize that TRUE ideals are unobtainable at this point in their lives, and 3) would settle to live up to at least SOME of their former potential.

great story. inspirational story. momentous act that took strength and courage. and he is a hero under some definitions. but i think you're really pushing it to say he's the "model" of what people want to be.

by bleedjaxblue on Aug 27, 2007 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

well

-noun
1.    a standard or example for imitation or comparison.
2.    a representation, generally in miniature, to show the construction or appearance of something.
3.    an image in clay, wax, or the like, to be reproduced in more durable material.
4.    a person or thing that serves as a subject for an artist, sculptor, writer, etc.
5.    a person whose profession is posing for artists or photographers.
6.    a person employed to wear clothing or pose with a product for purposes of display and advertising.
7.    a style or design of a particular product: His car is last year's model.
8.    a pattern or mode of structure or formation.
9.    a typical form or style.
10.    a simplified representation of a system or phenomenon, as in the sciences or economics, with any hypotheses required to describe the system or explain the phenomenon, often mathematically.
11.    Zoology. an animal that is mimicked in form or color by another.
-adjective
12.    serving as an example or model: a model home open to prospective buyers.
13.    worthy to serve as a model; exemplary: a model student.
14.    being a small or miniature version of something: He enjoyed building model ships.

Number 12 where it's an example and number 1 is what I'm talking about.

Models or ideals are almost never taken in entirety. When you see a person that drowned while saving a child - you are just calling him a hero based on the heroic act. Not on his past life or anything else.

Josh Hamilton's effort to recover from drugs, his telling his story every game at every park, signing autographs, his efforts to become a walking talking model against drugs and as an inspiration that people can conquer it. This IS heroic.

Do we question why the child was drowning and needed help or why the person saving the child died? Do we question the past life? We just see the heroic act for what it is. I'm not sure why people can't just see Hamilton's heroic act for what it is.

by pedrophile on Aug 28, 2007 1:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

<LOUD APPLAUSE>

it's because people are too judgemental.

Well said and I couldn't agree more with your analogy.

by So Cal Bob on Aug 28, 2007 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

now THAT....

...is ironic

by bleedjaxblue on Aug 28, 2007 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

not really

I answered his question. I was not passing judgement.

I agree with the "act" versus whole body of work that he outlined. It's a pretty simplistic view.

by So Cal Bob on Aug 28, 2007 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

valid point....

....on "hero" referring to the moment/current state, while making no reference to either the past or the entire body of work. not that either of those make Hamilton an "anti-hero" or anything, but his body of work does NOT make him an ideal. if it refers to the more limited and more current sample, then perhaps it does.

as for using the definitions of "model" that you do, i disagree -- the word "model" restricted to definitions also consonant with the word "ideal." saying "he is a model OR ideal" doesn't mean he's one OR the other; it means that neither word is perfect -- or both have many definitions -- so it should be understood that the intersection of the definitions is what the author intends.

by bleedjaxblue on Aug 28, 2007 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

not sure

I understand your 2nd point. I do know the author was talking about an intersection. And that it's referring to a hero as an example or model.

And Hamilton is showing himself as an example or model to those people that are addicted that need to find a way out of their problems.

ps: I never look at heroes for the whole body of work. Too often we later hear they beat their wife or did other bad things.

To me the real heroes are people that go out of their way to set examples that truly help people. In sports I can only think of a few.

Josh Hamilton is one. And Roberto Clemente is another. But for me sports Heroes begin and end with Jackie Robinson.

by pedrophile on Aug 28, 2007 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Inspirational

Thanx, Pedro, for posting that. I've never had those sorts of problems, but I know they can be extremely difficult to overcome. I wish Josh all the best in his continued recovery.

From a purely baseball perspective, what Josh Hamilton is doing strikes me as unprecedented. What other prospect has basically not played baseball for 3 years, then finally gets about 50 at bats in Short-Season A ball, then not only makes the big-league club out of ST the next year, but makes enough of an impact that he gets mention for ROY? I cant think of anyone. It's a tribute to the immense talent that he evidently still has.

Some props should go to the Tampa Bay organization, also. They stuck w this guy for 7-8 years, and long after he started having his problems. That was above and beyond the call of duty. It's a shame that another club is reaping the benefits of Josh's recovery now. They may have known that they may have been taking a slight risk when they left him unprotected, but I'm sure they thought that if he did well at all, they could work out some trade to get him back. I dont think they ever imagined that he'd stay in MLB all season.

Also, the Rick Ankiel story is almost as amazing. Cant think of any precedents for that either. Interesting that both players are making their amazing comebacks in the same year.

by rhd on Aug 27, 2007 12:44 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

subject

I'm sure the Rays are very happy for Josh. For all of Tampas worts the handling of Delmon, Hamilton, and Dukes has been very good.

by Josh on Aug 27, 2007 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

you are welcome

I was just happy to read it myself and wanted to share. Between Ankiel and him this is an incredible year.

by pedrophile on Aug 27, 2007 3:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

don't look now

A few other notable comebacks this year:
-The Bossman Junior
-Jack Cust
-Dee Brown (first MLB at bat since 2004)
-Tim Harikkala (first MLB start since 1996)
-Sammy Sosa
-Buddy Carlyle

There are probably some others.

by limozeen on Aug 27, 2007 7:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry

These might have been good stories in a normal season, but nothing compares to Ankiel and Hamilton.

by MontrealMets on Aug 27, 2007 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dmitri Young

Dmitri's problems were probably on a smaller scale (rarely do I get to say "smaller" with respect to Dmitri, so I need to take advantage) and were much less publicized than Hamilton's, but I bet the two have more in common than not.

and boom goes the dynamite.

by Mean Dean on Aug 28, 2007 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

(rimshot)

I'm guessing you're referring to the diabetes, etc., not the divorce?

"...and the only things I've found better than listening to Vin Scully are listening to Keith Jackson and uncut cocaine." (bleedjaxblue)

by drjayphd on Aug 28, 2007 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

no

There were whispers of drinking and/or drug problems, that I strongly suspect had a lot more to them than "whispers," although again, it was not publicized.

and boom goes the dynamite.

by Mean Dean on Aug 28, 2007 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs