All Gold Glove Team
I really found this to be a good read. Im also very surprised the Jeter got as much accolade as he did. Just goes to show that being a good guy and fan favorite can cover up for his defensive prowess .... err lack of. I, like everyone else, was pretty shocked to see Wes Parker named at first base and not Keith "Im a Coke Head" Hernandez. Hernandez was prolly the best fielding firstbaseman Ive ever seen. I also feel that Jim Edmonds in his peak years was probably the best all around defender for outfielders. Some of the balls he got to and plays that he made were just amazing. Its hard to argue him not making the list though with Mays, Clemente and Griffey making it over him. All and all its a good list.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2985977
What does everyone else feel about this list?
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51 comments
Comments
Morgan for 2nd base makes no sense
by Bravesin07 on Aug 22, 2007 1:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Maz/Ichiro
by joemorgansaysdeadredtoomuch on Aug 22, 2007 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's always good to work for ESPN
by daveyork on Aug 22, 2007 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Morgan over Maz?
by sharksrog on Aug 23, 2007 1:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the list
having said that, most of the choices are totally fine. certainly you can't argue with bench, oz, brooks, or mays. griffey and clemente aren't exactly out of place, but i would probably prefer somebody like barfield, andruw, or even ichiro (just imagine if he had played CF starting in 2001... he's already the #1 defensive CF this year).
morgan was a fine 2B, but nobody can hold a candle to mazeroski, so i dunno what's going on there. maz finished 4th in the voting.
parker is just odd. he got over 50% of the votes at first, but wasn't keith hernandez pretty clearly better, and more popular, and in a bigger market, and on seinfeld? he's KEITH HERNANDEZ. how in the world did he not win?
by jpahk on Aug 22, 2007 1:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ha
Heres my All Time Gold Glove Team
C- J Bench
1B- K Hernandez
2B- R Alomar
SS- C Ripken
3B- B Robinson
LF- B Bonds (and Im no fan of his)
CF- W Mays
RF- R Clemente
P- G Maddox
What do you guys think about my list?
by tbach81 on Aug 22, 2007 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
reality
In his prime, he couldn't throw out Sid Bream from shallow left without skipping the ball.
by Curtis Pride on Aug 22, 2007 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ahaha...
Also, I put Andruw up there before everyone but Mays. 98-02 was one of the best runs by a fielder ever, and despite recent reports of his demise, he's on pace to accumulate about 450 POs this year. (Jason Stark knows where he can stick it! :-p)
by mraver on Aug 22, 2007 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not that bad
by sharksrog on Aug 23, 2007 1:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think...
Here's MY criterion...Jeff kent is remored to have been a terrible 2b his whole career and if you do not make more plays than him let alone A LOT MORE PLAYS like Alomar doesnt and Mazeroski does then you are not the greatest 2b of All-Time
Alomar... real good hands...turned DP well...Range? WAY, WAY overated...just like Jeter's
by casejud on Aug 22, 2007 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brooksie
Has anyone noticed how far off the line David Bell plays, in contrast?
by sharksrog on Aug 23, 2007 1:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Parker and Morgan
by DavidFoss on Aug 22, 2007 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jim Kaat
by cmathewson on Aug 22, 2007 2:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yes
by cmathewson on Aug 22, 2007 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
pitcher fielding
anyway, if you buy the premise that holding runners should count as part of a pitcher's defensive responsibility, then greg maddux doesn't belong anywhere near an all-time gold glove for pitchers. nor mike mussina, who's also got a locker full of actual gold gloves. it should be guys like pettitte, or great fielders who could also hold runners, like kenny rogers.
(of course, there is also a reasonable argument to be made that a pitcher's defensive responsibilities include all aspects of run prevention, first and foremost being... you know, pitching. in which case the gold gloves should go to guys like roger clemens and randy johnson. i don't think that anybody has tried to seriously make this argument, though.)
by jpahk on Aug 22, 2007 2:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That's actually an excellent point
Still, I've got to think that Maddux has saved many more runs with his glove than he's given up with his long delivery.
by mraver on Aug 22, 2007 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maddux
by JFP on Aug 22, 2007 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
holding runners
by jpahk on Aug 22, 2007 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
CF
Yes he hit lots of homeruns and stole some home runs by playing so deep (and having good leaping ability), but so many balls dropped all around him that he was usually not even above average.
by elricsi on Aug 22, 2007 4:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Actually...
by Boxkutter on Aug 22, 2007 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The stats
From 91 to 99, for his full seasons with the Mariners his Zone Ratings were:
774, 823, 775, 760, 829, 806, 792 and 768.
(League average is the low 800's)
Now unless you think this is some sort of park effect or something, his replacement ripped off ZR's of 890, 914, 920 and 922 in the 4 years after he left. The Mariners went from having team ERA's in the high 4's and low 5's to a team ERA around 4.00 from 2000 to 2003.
His rank (amoung CF) in fielding win shares in those 8 full seasons from 91 to 99 are:
6, 13, 13, 12, 12, 6, 9, 11
He was average at best. All those sportscenter over the fence catches and hitting he did caused him to be the most overrated defensive CF ever.
by elricsi on Aug 22, 2007 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well....
The Kingdome was (obviously) a domed stadium that was a great place to hit, while Safeco is an open-air field where balls are known to "hang" in the outfield, making outfielder range look pretty spectacular, statistically.
That said, you make a pretty strong case otherwise that Griffey was overrated defensively. It should be noted that he had a very good arm as well, but obviously he never had the range you'd expect from a top centerfielder.
by DrunkIrish on Aug 23, 2007 6:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My team
1b-Youkilis (just kidding) Keith Hernandez
2B Alomar
3B Brooks Robinson
SS Ozzie Smith/Vizquel
OF Willie Mays
OF Andruw Jones
OF Ichiro
P Maddux
by kofanis0880 on Aug 22, 2007 4:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Torii Hunter???
by strums on Aug 22, 2007 6:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well...
by Havok1517 on Aug 22, 2007 6:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Time
by sharksrog on Aug 23, 2007 2:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mays famous catch
by JT12340 on Aug 23, 2007 2:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My picks
C - Pudge
1B - Frank Chance (Keith Hernandez)
2B - Bill Mazeroski (Pokey Reese)
SS - Ozzie Smith
3B - Pie Traynor (Brooks Robinson modern, Scott Rolen that I've seen live)
OF - Willie Mays, Garry Maddox, Ichiro (Griffey Jr. subs for Mays, Jim Edmonds for Maddox of best I've seen live)
P - Trevor Hoffman
by Brickhaus on Aug 22, 2007 7:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Frank Chance, Pie Traynor
by lemonjello on Aug 22, 2007 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd say
Morgan is by far the biggest joke though.
by CrimsonLiederhosen on Aug 22, 2007 8:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
mine
1b Keith Hernandez
2B Alomar
3B Brooks Robinson
SS Vizquel
OF Devon White
OF Willie Mays
OF Ichiro
by pedrophile on Aug 22, 2007 8:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
All except White
by cmathewson on Aug 23, 2007 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
then you
Torii Hunter is arguably the best in the league robbing home-runs. I put #1 in the class of the Gary Matthews Jr., Mike Cameron's, etc., If Griffey is on the list then Hunter should definitely be there too.
But I see the OF has Jones/Mays/Ichiro.
by kofanis0880 on Aug 23, 2007 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
twins fan ;)
But if you watched White play a lot you would have seen that he was far and away better than Griffey.
I believe he is better than Hunter and I have watched both quite a bit. But they are clsoe.
by pedrophile on Aug 23, 2007 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ss
Sincerely,
Yankee Fan
by Team Moneyball on Aug 22, 2007 11:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
2b
by lemonjello on Aug 23, 2007 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
almost forgot
2b - Robinson Cano
by Team Moneyball on Aug 23, 2007 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
2b
by LCT on Aug 23, 2007 12:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
wes parker
by whichthat on Aug 23, 2007 1:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wes Parker
by sharksrog on Aug 23, 2007 2:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
HUGE omission
He's the best defensive 1B in the game today, and that's saying a lot for a 42-year-old that hasn't played in two years.
by DrunkIrish on Aug 23, 2007 6:04 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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