Thoughts on Cincy having the TOP FARM after the trade deadline

by Rupe34 on Jul 6, 2007 11:52 PM EDT Comment 19 comments

With Cincy considering moving both Griffey and Dunn. It should produce more solid farm guys.

The group that's there is now is promising. We have 3 to 4 guys who could be stars for years to come. Votto, Bruce, Bailey, and Cueto.

Do you think the trade deadline will help the reds more, or will losing Dunn and Griff hurt the system more?

Feel free to post any other up and coming stars in the system i may have missed. ex. Fransisco

0 recs | Comment 19 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Not the TOP FARM

But not bad. Certainly better than it was a few years ago. I think I would put them in the 5-7 range.

It's hard to compare to teams like the Devil Rays or the Diamondbacks that appear to have multiple stud hitting and pitching prospects.

Phillip Hughes turning into Barbaro? Odds are that Hughes will probably be put to sleep within the next year. --Bravesin08

by Dfarth on Jul 6, 2007 11:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

record in determing the Top farm system not just talent. The Reds farm system have had the best overall record for most of the year so far. I've paid pretty close attention to why and the main reason is the renaissance of pitching prospects (especially Single-A Dayton) that were long believed to be wasted. It also seems like guys that were real gambles to produce, have. I've heard rumors that Richie Gardner, remember him, could get time in the majors this year. John is going to have an interesting prospect list from Cincy to start next year. Gardner, Pauley, Dumatrait, Cueto, Watson, Webb, Wood, LeCure, Gonzalez, etc, and even Avery could be on the top 20 list. I also think that Jay Bruce could be the top prospect in America at seasons end.

by Havok1517 on Jul 7, 2007 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re:

I thought that he was implying that if the Reds added some good prospects by trading Griffey and Dunn that they might have the top system. Which, in my opinion, is probably not going to happen unless they get some real studs for those guys. In my opinion, the Reds system is vastly improved but I think it lacks the depth of the best systems. We will see though...

Phillip Hughes turning into Barbaro? Odds are that Hughes will probably be put to sleep within the next year. --Bravesin08

by Dfarth on Jul 7, 2007 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I doubt it.

First off, I don't think there's much chance at all that they move both Griffey and Dunn. I'm skeptical that they'll even move one of them at this point, honestly. I think they'll improve their depth at the deadline, but probably won't pick up any studs. That said, I think they'll comfortably be a top-ten system next year, and the top four of Bailey, Bruce, Votto, and Cueto might be the best in the minors. The problem with the rest of their prospects is that most of the ones having success are old for their level, but Valaika, Fisher, Gardner, Dumatrait, Wood, Watson, Stubbs, Turner, Mesoraco, Frazier, Soto, and Lotzkar give them a pretty solid base to build on in terms of upside.

by Geki on Jul 7, 2007 12:21 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I personally...

would not move either Griffey nor Dunn.

Dunn's option becomes a player one if he gets traded this year and 13 million isn't really a ton in this market with Pierre and Matthews getting what they got. I bet Dunn is hoping they trade him and he can opt of for 2008 and sign big FA money. He'll be more valuable to trade in 2008 than 2007 as well. Plus, the Reds have Milton and LaRue finally off the books in 2008. If he goes anywhere, I think it'll be to the Angels for at the very least a stud pitching prospect (Adenhart?), another good pitching prospect, and a young major league starter (Santana?. These are Krivsky's current demands as heard on the Sports Animal 980 Cincinnati.

Griffey is having a great year and is at his prime value right now but the Reds aren't winning and he's the main attraction (just like Bonds is in SF but for the right reasons). He's signed through 2009 and I he has to appove a trade anyways.

2008 Cincinnati Reds OF

RF:
Ken Griffey 2008
Josh Hamilton 2009-

CF:
Josh Hamilton 2008
Jay Bruce 2009
Drew Stubbs (A) 2010-

LF:
Adam Dunn 2008 (T)
Ken Griffey 2009
Jay Bruce 2010-

The Reds should attempt to move Hatteberg, Weathers, Lohse, Conine. All are FAs after this year and all have value to contenders. Votto is replacing the Hatteberg/Conine plattoon, Weathers is a useful setup man on a good team, and Lohse (a Boras client) is too expensive to resign and has been great at times, like tonight. None of these guys will net stud prospects but they could net underachievers with some upside to strengthen an already strong system.

by Havok1517 on Jul 7, 2007 12:51 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I'd try to lock up Dunn long-term.

I think he could probably be signed for an under market value deal, and I really think his bat would be sorely missed in the lineup, strikeouts or not. I'd see what I could get for Junior, but certainly wouldn't give him away.

In terms of guys I'd move, there's no way that I'd have Lohse, Conine, Hatteberg, Weathers, and Stanton (assuming someone would take him) on this team after the trade deadline. One of the Reds beat writers left a cryptic "keep an eye on Alan Horne" message on his blog last week, and I could see the Yankees having interest in any and all of those names, as well as Dunn and Griffey.

Personally, I don't think Stubbs ever gets to the majors, but a future outfield of Dunn, Bruce, and Hamilton looks pretty damn good to me. The infield has Encarnacion, Phillips, and Votto as well, leaving the team without a whole lot of holes to fill offensively. I think trading Dunn would weaken that, and I don't think you'll get good value for him.

by Geki on Jul 7, 2007 3:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

RE: I'd try to lock up Dunn long-term.

I woudl hate to see use lock up Dunn. What he really done for us. He doesn't drive in runs and he strikes out way too much.

I like the idea of him going to LAA, if he only brings Adenhart i woudl take it right now. I just don't see him getting the money he wants in Cincy.

Griffey would look good in a Seattle uniform. I woudl love to get Clement for him.

The Reds are finally making a move!

by Rupe34 on Jul 7, 2007 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

With the Reds

just drafting Mesoraco, acquiring Clement as a catcher might not be the best use of resources.

by Havok1517 on Jul 7, 2007 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

uh

It's never a good idea to plan on high school players to pan out, especially catchers not named Joe Mauer.

by limozeen on Jul 8, 2007 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

On defense alone...

Stubbs will be certainly be a major leaguer.

by Havok1517 on Jul 9, 2007 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Griffey

Surely he is a 10/5 guy, right?

Phillip Hughes turning into Barbaro? Odds are that Hughes will probably be put to sleep within the next year. --Bravesin08

by Dfarth on Jul 7, 2007 8:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Get rid of both

They do not fit the plan. both are overpaid and haven't really been worth the money. We need to take what we can get and run.

I also like the idea of dealing Lohse, Weathers and one of the 1st basemen. I want to keep one around to help Votto.

My prediction has Griff in Seattle (if he gets moved that would be the only place) and Dunn on a West Coast team preferible the Angels

The Reds are finally making a move!

by Rupe34 on Jul 7, 2007 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lets be honest here

Both Griffey and Dunn are easily earning their paychecks this year, without question. I don't think Dunn will be worth what he is going to be making when he signs his next contract because someone will pay him 15-16 million a year for 4-5 years, and at that point his defense costs his bats production too much.

I also doubt Griffey goes back to Seattle. He wants to be close to his family, which is in Florida. That is why he wanted to be traded from Seattle in the first place. It makes no sense that he would want to go back and be 3000 miles from his family again.

http://www.redsminorleagues.com

by dougdirt on Jul 7, 2007 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yay

Another homer.

No, Cincy does not have the "TOP FARM", and they still won't even if they move Dunn and Griffey (as another poster said, I don't they move even one of them). They have a top 10-15 system, but they are nowhere close to being #1.

I'm a fan of Bruce, but Bailey might not be the ace that everyone thought he would be, and Votto and Cueto are hardly superstar material.

by deezle on Jul 7, 2007 12:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Top system? No. Top 10, yes.

Votto is going to be a very solid major leaguer. Playing in Cincinnati will help his offense as well, and he is already going to be a 30 doubles, 25-30 HR guy with great on base skills. All Star? Probably not becuase he plays first base and thats a tough position to be an all star at, but he will be very solid.

As for Cueto, he has 3 above average pitches with very good control. a Mid 90s fastball that has hit 97-99 at times, a very good change up and a slider that is an out pitch as well. Not bad for a 21 year old who has gone to AA and toyed with the hitters there so far (19ip, 11h, 4bb, 27K, 0.47 ERA).

As for Bailey, his problem is consistancy right now. He will be fine as long as he stays healthy. Not that he will be a prospect by seasons end though.

That said, the Reds should still have 3 top 50 prospects with Bruce (who is arguably the #1 prospect in baseball with Justin Upton), Votto (15-30 range) and Cueto (30-50 range). After that there is a little drop off, but they still have plenty of talent with Travis Wood, Carlos Fisher, Sean Watson, Devin Mesoraco, Neftali Soto, Todd Frazier, Chris Valaika and a handful of other guys.

They are not the best farm system around, but I think they have plenty of depth in the system, the problem is, a lot of it is not at the AAA level just yet. It is making its way to AA now, but the depth is there.

http://www.redsminorleagues.com

by dougdirt on Jul 7, 2007 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

IMO

The Reds don't have a top 5 farm system but they are getting closer.

There are a lot of reasons to be excited because their system has been so bad for such a long time...especially with respect to pitchers. I think Reds fans get too carried away since they haven't had much recent experience with prospects. There are way too many prospects who never pan out.

I'm a Reds fan too...just being realistic. I'm pretty happy with their farm system though...just not "super" happy.

by Snake the Jake on Jul 7, 2007 4:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs