Stick a fork in Zambrano

by HuskerBob on Jun 1, 2007 4:08 PM EDT Comment 38 comments

He's done.

I've been worried but not overly up until this point. But now I am certain he's either hurting or completely destroyed from the workloads. The power sinker that got him the majors and made him so successful is non-existent. His fastball is straighter than Russ Ortiz'.

Yes Dusty, it took a little longer, but finally, all 3 of the studs from the 2003 Cubs are done. Have a toothpick and celebrate.

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Wow

This is going to cost him about $70 million

by Curtis Pride on Jun 1, 2007 4:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

C. Zambrano

He has had some good starts but, has been very inconsistent this year.

I wouldn't touch him because, I've seen what has happened to the others (Mark Prior, Kerry Wood).

I don't know if he's done but, something isn't right. One day he can pitch a good game then the next he gets blown up like today.

Doesn't help that he pitched 120 + pitches last time out.

by brewerfan84 on Jun 1, 2007 4:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

he's changed

his entire pitching repetoire. He pitches like a strikeout pitcher. Way too many 4-seamers now. I think the contract fuc**d up his head and he wants to K 15/game to get the big contract.

He's a disaster and Rothschild is a joke of a pitching coach.

by So Cal Bob on Jun 1, 2007 4:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

That would be my next question...

When does Larry Rothschild begin taking the blame for some of these guys?

Sickels for President.

by StatFreakNYM on Jun 1, 2007 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

haven't seen him

Glad I stayed AWAY at fantasy drafts this year.

by limozeen on Jun 1, 2007 4:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

wow

all I can say is wow.Zambrano could have been a more dominant version of brandon Webb with his sinker. I don't know if it is all the pitches so early, or the forearm injury coming back, or the lowered pitching slot. All I know is he has always been a headcase and today proved he may need a shrink more than a pitching coach.

by Trobone on Jun 1, 2007 4:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Oliver Perez anybody

He melted down after a huge year and sucked mightly for a while. Think the Mets could trade Milledge staright up for Zambrano right now. It could be a possibilty because the Cubs need a Right Fielder since Murton isn't one and the Peterson could fix Zambrano like Perez.

by Bravesin07 on Jun 1, 2007 4:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

as a Met fan...

... DONE. You don't want him, we'll take him.

and boom goes the dynamite.

by Mean Dean on Jun 1, 2007 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

wouldn't even give them Milledge

Take Pelfrey isstead. Then we've got a deal.

by jeck on Jun 1, 2007 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

typical Mets homers

never.

gonna.

happen.

This isn't strat-o-matic baseball making trades with your cards in between classes during 6th grade.

by So Cal Bob on Jun 1, 2007 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

you don't think

Zambrano is on the block after leaving the park in the middle of the game after his fight with Barrett today? Well, I disagree.

Assuming the Cubs were to explore trade options, how many teams are still going to part with a top 20 prospect for a rent-a-player with enormous question marks? The Mets are a logical fit for me because they 1) would have faith that Peterson could turn him around 2) have two top prospects that they've soured on a bit in Milledge and Pelfrey and 3) have the money to sign Zambrano if he gets it back together.

by jeck on Jun 1, 2007 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

get a grip

The Mets are a logical fit for you because you are a Mets homer. Period.

Milledge and Pelfrey aren't top prospects any longer if the Mets have soured on them, are they?

I understand the "looking to pounce" on this situation, but it's just no reality.

by So Cal Bob on Jun 1, 2007 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Seems reasonable to me

They ARE both top 20, they're just guys who've struggled this year. If the Cubs can't find any suitors other than the Mets, then why not? They don't have much leverage, and may as well get something out of nothing. Especially if the something is the toolsy type of OF they adore (Milledge), or the type of fireballer that they also covet at pitcher (Pelfrey)

Where do you get off dismissing these people's legitimate suggestions just on a "homer" basis?

Signed,
A Phillies Fan.

by mroak89 on Jun 1, 2007 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

go read the above posts

"As a Mets fan" thread subject might be the first clue, don't ya think?

And then the reply "WE" have a deal--speaking as a Mets fan.

If you think the Cubs would take 2 flunkies for Zambrano, go ahead and think that. It's not living in the real world. There remains 2/3's of the '07 season.

It's about as logical as thinking the Royals trade the Cubs Alex Gordon for Sean Marshall then, right?

by So Cal Bob on Jun 1, 2007 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not hiding

the fact that I'm a Mets fan. And if that comes with an inherent bias that makes you view my posts differently, then fine. But I gave three reasons why the Mets are a possible landing spot for Zambrano that you simply dismissed. If you want to actually contribute by offering another perspective on them, please do.

The only person who looks like a homer here is you. Milledge and Pelfrey are "flunkies"? Pelfrey was BA's 20th best prospect. Milledge was #9 the year before and I'm sure if you asked the folks at BA, they'd tell you he'd have ranked about the same this year if he qualified. It's funny that you mentioned Gordon, as he's on the very short list of prospects who had a higher EqA than Milledge's .299 at AAA last season.

by jeck on Jun 1, 2007 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

I think you made a pretty good suggestion for a trade. Makes sense in every way imaginable, and I rarely think the trades proposed on this site (by "homers" or otherwise) are sensible. I have no idea what crawled up So Cal's butt today, but I would hope the Cubs front office is more reasonable than he is, since the trade could end up benefitting both franchises.

by bleedjaxblue on Jun 1, 2007 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Trade

may be a very real possibility. Today's fight was described as "ugly" by those that saw it. "Significant gouges" was a term being tossed around on the radio. Too early to know exactly what happened, but this may be the leak in the dam bursting. Zambo may even want out of Chicago and the feeling may be mutual from the Cubs front office. I bet Carlos is kicking himself for not taking the Cubs more seriously to get a deal done sooner.

If Clemens and Smoltz face off in a deciding Game 7, we could witness the perfect storm of nonsensical comments from Bravesin07 and NYYLover1000 - gatling

by slurve on Jun 1, 2007 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

not a mets fan, either, but frankly i think it's rather generous to the Cubs. Zambrano's clearly not going to be re-signed, and getting Milledege/Pelfrey would be a huge haul for a guy who, frankly, I don't think much of.

to be honest, if the deal had been proposed by a Cubs fan, I'd have been the one saying 'what are you smoking, you homer?'

by scooter on Jun 1, 2007 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

+2

by Yakker on Jun 2, 2007 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

jeez

Calm down, big man. Take a deep breath. Read the whole exchange again. My point was that Milledge is much less valuable than Zambrano, and thus that would be a (unrealistically) great trade for the Mets. Why don't you yell at the BRAVES FAN who thought this was a trade worth discussing.

and boom goes the dynamite.

by Mean Dean on Jun 1, 2007 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Top 20

I'm not even the biggest Milledge fan, but he is 20 spots ahead of Pelfrey as a prospect, who is not even close to being top 20. Maybe Pelfrey is the best they can get, but if I was the Cubs GM, I would laugh Minaya off the phone if that's what he offered.

Rios is the next Juan Gonzales, thats right, I said it.

by KaoticKlown on Jun 2, 2007 5:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The wrong Zambrano

So, are you saying the Mets just traded Kasmir for the wrong Zambrano a few years back?

by C on Jun 1, 2007 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Splits

I am not surprised. Take a look at Zambrano's 2006 splits. They worried me a smidge, and ultimately led me to not pursue him in my Strat league this winter when he was on the trading block.

Lefties hit .249/.379/.414 off of him (793 ops) versus an NL league average of .271/.348/.442 (790 ops).

Of course, he dominated righties to the tune of .172/.254/.294. But, I thought he was vulnerable to lefty-heavy lineups, and I wasn't prepared to trade a lot of young talent for him.

Compare those numbers to his 2007 splits so far:
vs lefties: .338/.419/.574 (993 OPS)
vs righties: .194/.293/.379 (672 OPS)

by jonk1982 on Jun 1, 2007 5:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

needs to develope a cutter

That's what made Carpenter into a very good pitcher. Throw a cutter to lefties and they groundout.

by Bravesin07 on Jun 1, 2007 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

you obviously haven't watched him pitch

as of late as he has gone mainly 4-seamer/cutter and lost his power sinker.

by So Cal Bob on Jun 1, 2007 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

re

He can't even connect on his punches these days either:

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070601&content_id=1998747&vkey=news_mlb&fext=. jsp&c_id=mlb

by mckeeno on Jun 1, 2007 5:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

If you're gonna go down Carlos...

go down in flames. Atta boy.

Warning Track Power

by WTP on Jun 1, 2007 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nah

That's just more proof of how foolish Z is. Who's the one guy in the majors you don't want to take a swing at? Mike Barrett.

Don't believe me? Ask A.J. Pierzynski.

by Yakker on Jun 1, 2007 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hmmmm

Yet Barrett is in the hospital with a busted lip.

by Con on Jun 1, 2007 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Z

Probably hit him with a computer keyboard.

by Yakker on Jun 2, 2007 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

For some reason, the phrase ...

"From what I hear, you couldn't hit water if you were jumping out of a f-ing boat." seems highly appropriate. So what is Michael Barrett's pro fighting record at now? 1-0-1?

by StickRat on Jun 1, 2007 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pro Record

We don't really know. The most important match probably happened in the tunnel or clubhouse today. If Barrett won't take his mask off between innings tomorrow, you'll know he lost.

by siddfynch on Jun 1, 2007 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Barrett lost.

He was actually going to stay in the game. Z got him good, Pinella said in the post game interview he got his lip busted up pretty good. I read somewhere else Barrett ended up going to the hospital.

For the record, his punch on A.J. was not that bad. He was too close and didn't get much behind it.

by bl on Jun 1, 2007 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

subject

I talked to a good friends of Zambrano's today and I asked about Z's arm. He told me Z has said nothing to him about his arm hurting.

IMO the problem is Zambrano is a hype. Get the guy signed and put Blanco behind the plate and old Z will return.

by Josh on Jun 1, 2007 7:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

In his head,

I think the guy is just a headcase. Before the season he went on the record and said he was going to win the Cy Young this season.

After his last win in LA he was asking the reporters in his post game interview how many wins he had for the season. The pending contract is making him press too much IMO.

by bl on Jun 1, 2007 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Slot

The big question is why he's dropped his arm slot. It seems there has to be something going on with his arm because there is no good reason to do it otherwise.

by sungod7 on Jun 1, 2007 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

just everyone watch what we say

we all know carlos loves to surf the net, we dont want him finding this here and hiring some hits or something like that.

by wildthang on Jun 1, 2007 10:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

by the way

i [heart] lou piniella.

"I only have so many players that I can play. You know?" manager Lou Piniella said during a postgame media session with reporters that escalated into shouting. "And it's about time some of them start playing like major leaguers! Or, get somebody else in here that can catch the damn ball or run the bases properly! All right? That's all I can say!"

by jpahk on Jun 2, 2007 12:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs