Clemens

by Ur on May 7, 2007 8:42 AM EDT

Well, he's a minor leaguer now, so pfft...

Does the addition of the Rocket get the Yankees back to the Promised Land?

He's going to be 45 and is now pitching in most likely the most loaded offensive divison in baseball.

And as a side-note -- how much is Yankee payroll now?

And how do the Red Sox counterattack -- sign Nolan Ryan to be their closer after Papelbon's shoulder finally lands him on the DL?

I hope Clemens and Steinbrenner fall flat on their faces...

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counterattack

How should the Red Sox counterattack the signing of a pitcher who might throw 90 innings, for $28 million?

They should celebrate.

http://www.deweyshouse.com

by SmokeyJoeWood on May 7, 2007 9:20 AM EDT reply actions

I'm not a Clemens fan but I'm going to say that this move will make the Yanks the team to beat. I expect a 45 year old Clemens to put up a similar line to a 40 year old Curt Schilling. If those two turn out to be equals I think the comparison of the rotation (to the Sox) is pretty equal...a rotation of Clemens, Wang, Pettitte, Mussina, and Hughes is very good...

We all know the offense is really good and I believe Rivera will get it together. The one piece the Yanks could really use is a decent Set-Up guy or middle reliever. In years past that might have presented a problem but the Yanks have done such a good job of rebuilding their farm system that they should be able to get that piece. I could see a Tyler Clippard, Humberto Sanchez, or Ian Kennedy fetching exactly what the Yanks need - maybe for Scott Linebrink or Mike Macdougal...or maybe even a closer from a team that falls out of contention - like a Brian Fuentes. Anyways, I don't think the Yanks have to worry about the rotation or the offense anymore - so the only flaw left is one that shouldn't be too hard to fix.

Gorkys Hernandez is my new favorite player (my tribute to VTTigers)

by Dfarth on May 7, 2007 10:11 AM EDT reply actions

h.....

there is no way that any of those three would bring in a Scott Linebrink or Fuentes..

Sanchez is doen for the year, no one is gonna take a chance on him. Clippard and Kennedy are good back of the rotation guys.

I really don't think Linebrink will go anywhere. MacDougal probably won't either.

None of those three prospects would be enough to fetch a big bullpen arm.

by odo31 on May 7, 2007 10:20 AM EDT reply actions

Clippard

I disagree about Clippard being a back end guy. You put him in Petco, which will suppress his flyball tendencies, and he's a good #3 starter. I admit, in the AL East he might get eaten alive, but in the right park and in the NL, he could be Chris Young redux.

"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico."-Harry Caray

by gatling on May 7, 2007 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions

Chris Young...

I never realized how much of a Flyball guy he was. His carrer rate is .60. But surprzing last year, and throughout his career he has been much better on the road and not in PETCO. I can't believe that he has sustained a 3.46 ERA with that rate.
Clippard's rate last year is 1.1 which isn't HORRIBLE but i'd want it higher. So far this year he has a 3 ERA but his BABIP is pretty high. I think your right he could be a good 3. I personally have made the argument here a 100 times. Pitching his about change of pace and deception, Clippard has done a great job keeping batters off balance, like Inman, he isn't gunning the ball. He just gets the job done I think he doesn't get the respect he deserves.

by JD Sussman on May 7, 2007 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions

Come On

Scott Linebrink is a free agent at the end of the year and he isn't one of the truly dominant relievers in the league. You don't think the Padres (assuming they are falling out of the running) would give up 2-3 months of Linebrink for 6 cheap years of Tyler Clippard - a solid prospect who looks like an innings eating starter. Or for Ian Kennedy, a first-round draft pick that is starting to show why in Hi-A. Or for Brian Fuentes who is also supposed to become a free-agent at the end of the year. What good are these guys going to do the Padres/Rockies after some big market team comes and scoops them up this offseason. I think you're totally wrong about the valuations of all these guys. JMO

Gorkys Hernandez is my new favorite player (my tribute to VTTigers)

by Dfarth on May 7, 2007 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions

+1

Well said.

"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico."-Harry Caray

by gatling on May 7, 2007 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions

Rocket

Does the move take them to the promise land? I would say it turns their season around and serves as a big pick me up, starting now. Even though he won't pitch for 3 weeks, the team's confidence and swagger has to return with the news.

He is 45 and pitching in the best offensive division in baseball, but he also has the support of the best offense of the game behind him and the luxury of having umpires expand his strike zone 4-6 inches greater than anyone else. I would say a 8-4 record with an ERA around 3.80 is reasonable.

Those 8 wins would put him at 356 all time. He could be the last pitcher to ever reach 350. Does he return next year to make a run at Warren Spahn and Kid Nichols to gain possesion of 4th best all time only behind pitchers that played 100 years ago?

by ScottAZ on May 7, 2007 11:07 AM EDT reply actions

swagger

You're forgetting about The Swagger.

Just last weekend, at about 2:30 AM, I had The Swagger...I swear I could throw 97 MPH.

http://www.deweyshouse.com

by SmokeyJoeWood on May 7, 2007 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions

re

Oh red Sox fans. You are certainly a breed of all your own....

by ScottAZ on May 8, 2007 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions

re

Obviously you haven't seen a Clemens game over the past two years. Umpires protect him on the same level they protected Nolan Ryan 15 years ago. That Clemens splitter ends up at batters ankles and he gets called strikes on it. Pitches way off the plate are called for strikes.

All Clemens has to do is come within a relative proximity of the plate and the umps right arm goes up.

You sounds like a lot of sour grapes to me, huh Sox fan?

by ScottAZ on May 8, 2007 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions

He will

be decent but I dont see how 45 year old will make them the team to beat. Nothing is automatic not even Clemens and we all know this.

by chard11 on May 7, 2007 4:31 PM EDT reply actions

Every athlete

gets old and loses ability. He was dominant in the NL last year(So was Arryo). I just cant see Clemens making them the team to beat. Every year another star is what makes the Yanks the team to beat They have Added Mussina/Giambi/Arod/Sheff/Damon/Abreu yet theys still fall short. So forgive me if I dont beleive Clemens will finally make the difference

by chard11 on May 7, 2007 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions

45

I'm not sure he is actually 45 (thought it was 44) and anyways he was pretty damn dominant last year.

So why does his age have anything to do with what he can do this year? Until he proves he can't he is one of the top 5 pitchers in baseball year in year out.

by pedrophile on May 7, 2007 4:41 PM EDT reply actions

age

What does a player's age have to do with predicting his performance?

Quite a bit, I'd say.

Granted, Clemens is a freak of nature and doesn't really have any comparables, but it's reasonable to predict that at age 45 (which he turns this year) he will pitch worse than he did in NY than when he was 36.

During his first stint in NY, by my calculations, his ERA was 3.99. I think the prediction above of him putting up a 4.25 ERA is reasonable. Good, but not really $28 big-ones good.

http://www.deweyshouse.com

by SmokeyJoeWood on May 7, 2007 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions

well

He is NOT being paid 28 Million. They only announce this amount to fuel his ego. It's about $18 million because it's pro-rated.
Last year you would have said he would decline because he's 44. You would have been wrong.
The year before you would have said he would decline because he's 43. You would have been wrong.
See above and repeat as necessary.
Are you still reading?

by pedrophile on May 7, 2007 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions

As long as

he pitches parts of seasons - I'll give Roger the benefit of the doubt.

Who cares about the luxury tax. Obviously not the Yankees. He gets their season turned around, Georgie will view it as money well spent.

If Clemens and Smoltz face off in a deciding Game 7, we could witness the perfect storm of nonsensical comments from Bravesin07 and NYYLover1000 - gatling

by slurve on May 7, 2007 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions

ok

He is 44. Who cares about his age in August. Tell me one other player in baseball that you quote his August age?
The luxury tax is applied to the Yankees payroll as a whole not to individual players. On your method, and many writers + bloggers + etc., the only guys incurring luxury tax are the latest guys signed.

If you sign 20 players at 10 million each do the first 12 guys not incur luxury and the last 8 guys incur it? It fits arguments well but is not valid.

Yeah, he will eventually deteriorate. Never bet against a winning streak. Betting on a streak u can be right many times and can only be wrong once. Betting against said streak you can be wrong many times and can only be right once.
I personally think he is cheap! Right now their payroll is around $200 million? Whatever, it's an astronomical amount for a team that will miss the playoffs. The extra $18 million to make the playoffs is a deal.

by pedrophile on May 7, 2007 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions

reply

I don't think either of us really care if it's 44 45 or 46. But I think you can see where the articles play the age up. I never hear a players age based on August such and such. It's either Jan 1 or the official baseball date, whatever that is. And as you saw I didn't even know his real age, a non-issue to me.

The issue was really articles playing it up. He was old last year. And the year before. etc.

Luxury tax - if there is an additional $7 million of luxury tax because of him I won't disagree with the total. Technically it should only be considered that about 3.5 of it is tied to him though. It doesn't change the fact they have to pay $7 mill because they put themselves in that position. Whatever, neither of us care too much about Yankees money.

Again - it's about the press making it bigger than it is (and it is big) just because no-one calls them on their bs.

I don't think they should ever mention Luxury numbers on individuals. Because they wouldn't tie this to all the guys signed up until the $120 mill but then do it for the ones above.

Contenders - this is different. When Clemens is pitching they will have an awesome rotation with the best hitting. Their pitching of:
Clemens, Wang, Mussina, Pettite, Hughes is deadly. And as an added bonus they realize some of their minors guys are not so bad under pressure.

Their pen is a mess. Agreed. It can only get better unless Torre over-uses the successful guys - JOKE!

by pedrophile on May 8, 2007 2:18 AM EDT up reply actions

The last month of 06

Clemens broke down a little. He pitched very well but it is hard to say he would have been good in the playoffs.

In Sept 06
Roger missed a start
Avg 5.4IP/start
2.33ERA
9.7K/9
3.66BB/9

So even though he pitched well I remember him struggling for every one of those September innings. And thought to myself he is really going to labor in the playoffs if they went.

And this year the Yankees will be asking him to make 4 more starts in the beginning and go into the playoffs if they make it. I do not see Roger pitching 150IP this year.

So I predict Roger completely breaking down around September 22nd. He is 1 year older and has broken down in 2 straight years.

"You hear a lot of things... because there are a lot of people talking." (Shamus original)

by Shamus on May 7, 2007 6:19 PM EDT reply actions

I remember this too

And remember thinking, is this the beginning of the decline? When these old guys drop, they drop fast.

Now, according to ESPN, Clemens is in great shape and looks terrific again, so it may simply have been fatigue. But combine the extra 3-4 starts in 07 with yet another year of pitching, and who knows...maybe he won't even make it to September 22nd.

by Yakker on May 8, 2007 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions

There's a decent chance

That he's not going to break down this season to the point of becoming ineffective. He won't be pitching a full season and will not have the wear and tear in his body from long road trips. Also once Moose, Wang, and Hughes are healthy again, Clemens will be handled very carefully. The Yanks would be insane to overwork him before October. Plus to paraphrase Rick James, "HGH is a helluva drug." (Cue creepy chuckle/snort)

Fire Charlie Manuel!

by zdavis2512 on May 7, 2007 8:04 PM EDT reply actions

hGH

Not to start a whole thing, but, if you're interested, the latest Men's Journal has a very interesting article on the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of hGH. IMO, they've actually been out in front on this whole story, setting hyperbole to the side and actually explaining the drug and its effects. In a past article, they even sent a twenty-something guy down to some age rejuvenation center in Florida to try hGH and other stuff over a lengthy period of time, to see what the (good and ill) effects were on an everyday Joe.

Good stuff.

by Yakker on May 8, 2007 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions