Yet another Fantasy Trade

by JT12340 on May 23, 2007 1:08 AM EDT

Either Johan Santana or Arod

for

Barry Zito
Carlos Lee
Tim Lincecum

I'm currently in first and the guy is in last with no hopes in this keeper league. Here is my Current Roster:

C-Martin, Russell, Salty
1B-Morneau, Garko
2B-Kendrick, Palanco
3B-Cabrera, M
SS- Young, Michael
OF- Markakis, Willits, Hamilton, Sheffield, Willingham, Cust, C. Gomez, C.Lee

SP-Haren,Rich Hill, Carmona, Shields, Wang, Clemens, Garza, Carpenter, Liriano, Zito, Lincecum
RP-Cordero, Weathers, Soria, Dotel, Guardado, Marmol

My weaknesses are in SB, SV, AVG. I'm near the top three in all HR/RBI/Runs. My pitching is solid, but it's not dominant anywhere.

Give me your opinions. Remember the guy who has proposed both trades has no hope whatsoever. He possesses a bunch of mediocre players surrounding these two.

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Comments

yes

do it

by playingwithfire on May 23, 2007 1:34 AM EDT reply actions

If yes, then which one

Arod for the 3 (Lee, Lincecum, Zito)
Johan for the 3 (Lee, Lincecum, Zito)

Tell me why you would do it or why not.

Lincecum is the truth!

by JT12340 on May 23, 2007 1:57 AM EDT up reply actions

see no reason

not to do this, your getting 2 upper echelon players for one guy

by Trobone on May 23, 2007 1:37 AM EDT reply actions

Who do you consider upper echelon?

it is either Johan for Lee, Zito, Lincecum or Arod for Lee, Zito, Lincecum.

Lincecum is the truth!

by JT12340 on May 23, 2007 1:48 AM EDT up reply actions

Haha

you made it sound like you're giving up arod or santana.

i'd say do it cause i dont give a crap. I don't see how consolidating that much talent is going to help you.

i think it would be funny if you did it and blew the season. I think the point of fantasy is testing yourself and your knowledge.

Make the decision yourself!

by wildthang on May 23, 2007 2:05 AM EDT reply actions

Great reply...

I am just gauging others arguements as to whether or not I should or not. The reason being is because I have been accused of overvaluing players.

If you want to help, then help. Otherwise, don't post... It's that simple.

Lincecum is the truth!

by JT12340 on May 23, 2007 2:11 AM EDT up reply actions

No

Carlos Lee's numbers aren't that much worse than ARod's to justify giving up Lincecum. (Zito matters little here, as at this point he's barely a league average pitcher)

Doing it for ARod is debatable, but I for sure wouldn't do it for Santana.

by GregJP on May 23, 2007 2:11 AM EDT reply actions

Your one big weakness is OF and you are giving up a very good OF in the deal. A-Rod is great but wont be much better than Cabrera and Johan is great - but still look at your OF without Lee. If you are going to give up those guys you need to get a stud OF - at least IMHO....

Gorkys Hernandez is my new favorite player (my tribute to VTTigers)

by Dfarth on May 23, 2007 3:04 AM EDT reply actions

+1

Hit it right on the head. Plus, if you get A-Rod, what are you going to do with Miguel Cabrera?

"Tim Lincecum will win 1 Cy Young and 11 Tim Lincecums." -uga007

by Boxkutter on May 23, 2007 3:17 AM EDT up reply actions

Put him in the OF?

Does Cabrera still have OF eligibility in this league?

by cooper7d7 on May 23, 2007 7:21 AM EDT up reply actions

nope

people are going to yell at me for this - i honestly don't believe the difference between lincecum and santana is that big. there, i said it.

by wily mo on May 23, 2007 3:36 AM EDT reply actions

no reason for you not to say it

people knew you were thinking it anyway

by bleedjaxblue on May 23, 2007 3:40 AM EDT up reply actions

Haha

What's worse is he is probably right if three starts is any indication and, it is in this case.

BTW, BJB. Remember your little test for me you had suggested? What do you think of my picks in the D'Backs mock draft as being the players that are selected higher than the concensus? I'll try to make the best picks possible and some of them might be higher than many think.

casedog

by casejud on May 23, 2007 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions

sure, it can be....

...in some sense. I mean, you'd have the go-ahead from me to say, "I saw this guy coming" if you draft him. I wouldn't say it's as stringent as the test I designed, but I wouldn't begrudge you either for claiming bragging rights if a draft pick you make breaks out.

(Of course, it wouldn't necessarily mean that many people didn't see it coming either -- for all you know, you drafted someone who the three teams right after you were going to pick before you snatched him too, as is usually the case in drafts. But, like I said, you at least win half the battle for PREDICTING the success, even if it's not at the exclusion of everyone else.)

by bleedjaxblue on May 23, 2007 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions

the difference

is that Johan has been doing for years what Lincecum has done for a few weeks. That assurance that you are going to get stellar production is where Johan's value lies.

Morrow is the Sea Diamond.

by PujolsJunkie on May 23, 2007 3:56 AM EDT up reply actions

hmm

Santana has been dominating the National League's worst offenses outside of Washington for years now?

Nah, I think he's pitched well against some pretty good teams too.

by FI @ Minor League Ball on May 23, 2007 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions

sure

there's that.

lincecum may have only been doing this in the majors for three starts (not counting the first one because it was bad), but sometimes you can just look at a guy's track record and watch him pitch and see how good he is. i had him ranked #1 before the year and expected this to happen, because he's been pitching like this for over a year.

i remember when santana was originally moved into the rotation people were having the same kind of arguments. "he's not going to keep pitching like that in the rotation - ERA goes up by 1.5 - he'll probably be solid but expecting him to be the best pitcher in the league is nutty." i didn't say much back then because i wasn't as confident in my gut, but my gut was saying "yeah, ok, usually, but look at him. this guy really is just that good." it's saying the same thing now.

of course my gut also says things that are hilariously wrong from time to time. but usually not when i've put in as much research as i have on lincecum. i even expected his first start to be bad (because of nerves), based on his first pro start and first spring training start both being kind of rocky. seems like nerves + adrenaline throw his delivery a little out of whack.

i'm not normally somebody who waxes on about all his correct predictions. i've certainly been wrong before and will be again. my point is just that none of this is entirely unexpected, and the idea of a kid going on to dominate the league for the rest of the year isn't any less likely for being extremely rare, because lincecum's track record and abilities are similarly rare. it might also not happen, but i think it's more likely than otherwise and i wouldn't make the trade.

and anyway in fantasy it's fair to consider that he's pitching to other pitchers and weak teams in the kids' league. the stats still count. take the edge and run with it.

by wily mo on May 23, 2007 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions

bad deal

agree linc could approximate santana's performance and lee could approximate arod's.

at any rate, when actually competing generally want the distributed talent.

Consolidating talent is for rebuilding.

by dryice on May 23, 2007 9:58 AM EDT reply actions

This trade doesn't make any logical sense

If your biggest weaknesses are SBs, SVs, and Avg., why make this deal? If you trade for A-Rod, he's helping you a bit in Avg., but he'll steal as many bases as Lee, in all likelihood. Maybe less. And besides, giving up Lee, you're actually downgrading your avg. as A-Rod is hitting .308 whereas Lee is hitting .314.

Meanwhile, if you trade for Santana, you're not getting help in any of the 3 categories you say are your biggest weakness.

Instead of trading for these two big names that won't do anything for your team this year, why not instead try and move Lincecum and Zito for a top-tier closer, or an Ichiro-type player who will help you in those categories?

by Pawtucket Pat on May 23, 2007 11:42 AM EDT reply actions

Agree completely

The players you'd be trading could be better used in trades for players that directly address the SBs, SVs and Avg issues. Unless you intend to spin off either A-Rod or Johan, in which case I would go ahead with the trade, as you'd likely get more value from one of those two players. But Johan and A-Rod don't really do much for your team now.

"People think it must be fun to be a super genious, but they don't know how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world." - Calvin

by RVachon on May 23, 2007 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions