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Here we go again. This is my 2nd year doing the mock. Last year's draft was scouted by the fine people at RaysBaseball.com and I'm sure the same will happen this year. I'm just the voice and signature at the end of the decisions and welcome any and all input and feedback.

Star-divide

To recap the draft from last season:

Rd 1, Pick 3: Tim Lincecum, RHP, University of Washington (10 in real draft)
Rd 2, Pick 47: Emmanuel Burriss, SS, Kent State University (33 in real draft)
Rd 3, Pick 79: Aaron Bates, 1B, North Carolina State University (83 in real draft)
Rd 4, Pick 109: Matt McBride, C, Lehigh  (75 in real draft)
Rd 5, Pick 139: Nick Fuller, RHP, Georgia HS  (79 in real draft)

Last year's draft was very college heavy, but there was a lot of decent upside talent available last year in the later rounds.

Lincecum was a personal favorite and most of the people interested preferred Brad Lincoln. Let's just say that was one case where I'm glad I trusted my gut.

Burriss slipped in the mock draft and a few of us liked him more than some of the HS talent available. He's struggling this season so far hitting for average, but he still has good plate discipline and great speed.

Bates was another personal favorite and I had him on my 2nd round list. He's proved so far as a professional that he was probably more of a 2nd round talent.

McBride was my favorite college catcher in the draft and has done little to prove that sentiment wrong thus far. He's not destroying A ball, but he's doing what was expected and clearly worth the 4th round pick.

Fuller was a great 5th round selection at the time, but little did we all know that he would end up being a little pickpocket. If taken pro in real life, there's almost no doubt in my mind he would be out of trouble and doing well in the low minors. He was successful in his brief stint at college.

NOW onto the 2007 draft. Let's just focus on the 1st round since late round picks are too heavily dependent on availability. Plus, we don't want to give other teams any ideas lol.

My general draft strategy is a mix of need and best talent available at the top, a good mix of pitching and hitting, and more focus on upside in the later rounds. With this draft class, I think we can get some good HS talent in rounds 4 and 5.

But onto the first pick:

I know everyone expects the pick to be David Price and it's obvious why. I'm a big Price fan and expect him to be a solid major league starter at worst.

Having said all that, I'm not as sold on his upside as an "ace" as I was for Lincecum and I even prefer Jake McGee to David Price right now.

But beyond all that, there's one reason I've been leaning more and more to not drafting David Price. And that reason is Matt Wieters.

As rare as it is to find a 6'6" lefty with a plus fastball, a plus breaking ball, and a track record of success.... it's just as rare to find a 6'5" catcher with plus plate discipline, contact skills, current power and potential power, switch-hitter, a plus-plus arm behind the plate, reportedly good catching skills, and a track record of success with wood bats.

Just look at how good Wieters was in the Cape this past offseason: .307/.417/.535, 8 HR, 21 RBI, 23 BB, 21 K in 127 AB.

People rarely, if ever, post a 950 OPS in that league. It's the highest OPS in the Cape this decade.

Talent-wise, Price and Wieters are dead even in my opinion.

So onto need... where will Price fit into the future of the Rays and where will Wieters fit into the future?

Price would be a starter. Of the current starters, only Kazmir and Shields are locked in long-term.

That leaves 3 spots in the rotation for:

RHP Jeff Niemann
RHP Andy Sonnanstine
RHP Jason Hammel
RHP Mitch Talbot
RHP Edwin Jackson
RHP Wade Davis
LHP Jake McGee
RHP Chris Mason
RHP Jeremy Hellickson
RHP Josh Butler
etc etc etc etc

Breaking it down, we see that only Kazmir and McGee exist as legit left-handed options for the rotation. The remaining 3 spots will be filled by the others in that group.

The question becomes, do you think David Price is a big upgrade over the names listed above and/or do you have faith in Jake McGee becoming a solid major league starter?

I'm not of the opinion that Price is a surefire upgrade over the names above, especially when speaking about Sonnanstine, Niemann, and Davis. I'm also a huge believer in McGee and prefer him to Davis as of today.

So, let's move our attention to Wieters. Here is the current Rays catching depth chart:

MLB: Dioner Navarro
Minors: Shawn Riggans, John Jaso, Sergio Pedroza, Nevin Ashley

Jaso and Pedroza simply aren't everyday major league catchers and don't really pass as defensive catchers. They both have good bats, but a bat alone won't get you to the majors as a catcher.

Riggans and Ashley are relatively similar despite being at different stages of their careers. Both guys can hit for average, have enough pop to drive a few out, have solid defensive reputations, have decent speed, and have below-average plate discipline. They are both IMO perfect backup catchers in the majors and I think both will fill that role for the Rays at some point in the future.

So the question then becomes, how much do you believe in Dioner Navarro?

I'm not at all a Navarro fan. He's only showed the talent to hit against lefties in the majors and that's not enough to cut it at the highest level. He doesn't possess any upside or projection and while he'll likely get better through experience and repetition, he's very unlikely to be an above-average catcher any time in the near future. Solid guy who can be around league average with a pretty good arm.

To me, Wieters is a huge upgrade over all of the catchers in the Rays system. He's probably just as good as Navarro right now, while being 2 years younger.

So it's a tough call.

While everyone thinks the Rays need to draft a pitcher, I just don't see that as a position of need within the organization anymore. The Rays have better pitching in the minor leagues than any other organization. They have enough to fill a rotation AND a bullpen just off their starting prospects alone.

Opinions, comments, and of course I'll get a TON of criticism.

Poll
1st rd pick?
C Matt Wieters, Georgia Tech
13 votes
RHP Rick Porcello, High School (NJ)
4 votes
3B Josh Vitters, High School (CA)
1 votes
LHP David Price, Vanderbilt
35 votes

53 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 20 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Comments

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I prefer
Price.  The attrition rate for pitchers is so high, we'll honestly be lucky if 4 of those guys have good ML careers.  Plus, the attrition rate for catchers is just as high.  And while Weiters has been good this season, he hasn't been great.  And if I'm going to pass on Price, it's not going to be for him.

Honestly my #2 is Porcello.  Everything I've read about him is really positive.  He seems like his prospect status is on par if not higher than guys like Kershaw, Bailey, Kazmir ect. as an amateur.  Plus from what I've read, his workload has been low.  He hasn't been abused like many HS and college stars.

by Tyler on May 16, 2007 9:27 PM EDT reply actions  

good, not great
Define good and great please.

.376/.498/.639 (1137 OPS) is great to me. He's improved slightly each year in college.

As for Porcello, there's no reason to draft him above Price. Pitchers who make it to age 21 without injury should be drafted ahead of pitchers who haven't made it through the 18-21 phase unless the talent warrants the selection. Porcello's talent is not higher than Price's, although of course he has the room to grow into his talent as a high school draftee.

The other difference that separates the mock from the real draft is signability. We know the Rays probably won't take Boras clients, but we can.

In this draft, if you pass on Price IMO it has to be for Wieters or Vitters. No other pitcher is worth the risk.

Rays in '08....

by youALREADYknow on May 16, 2007 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

hm
i'm not the biggest price fan, but he seems like the general consensus for the 1st pick.

I don't think you can ever have too much pitching, especially with all the injuries popping up everywhere, and some will eventually find their way to the bullpen.

I do agree that if you don't take Price, it has to be Wieters or Vitters.  We do need a catcher, but I don't think it's a huge issue just because of how many other potentially great hitters we have, it doesn't seem likely that we move Rocco for Saltalamacchia, and Navarro is really disappointing, so it's pretty close.

by god allah star on May 16, 2007 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree, but disagree??
No other pitcher is worth the risk.

At this point, no other pitcher is worth the risk.  I like Porcello a lot though, and the reason I ranked him #2 on my list is purely semantics.  If something happens between now and the draft to Price, I think Porcello should be the pick.

As I said before, he's got a light workload.  You can't discount him just because he's a HS pitcher.  He throws in the mid-90's and does it late into games.  He was as high as 97 his last start (perfect game) and hitting 95 in the last inning.  He's also got 4 pitches.  A plus hard curve.  A softer curve that he throws for strikes.  And a change that's supposedly pretty good.  His mechanics are clean.

IMO he's a better pitching prospect out of HS than we've seen in a long time.  He's worth the #1 pick if Price isn't healthy.  

I wasn't ranking him over Price, I just like him better than Wieters, and Vitters is a corner IFer.  And we've got several of those, although he'd have to be in the conversations.  I would listen to an arguement for him.  

My personal Top-4 would be:
Price
Porcello
Vitters
Wieters

by Tyler on May 17, 2007 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, and...
I think your top 4 is how the top 4 looks to unfold, as of today, and I'm not inclined to say it's wrong.  A good point was mentioned on the RaysBaseball.com board about McGee having more value than Price (despite similar skills) due to TB handling his development and all the things that come along with owning someone from 18 to 21 instead of taking a college (Rice?) used (abused?) pitcher at 21 and going from there.

I think the more progressive, informed, current, and pertinent question is Porcello v. Price.  I still take Price since another more important question to me than pitcher vs. hitter is ROI, assuming Price isn't a post-draft TJ waiting to happen.

by TampaRays on May 17, 2007 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't believe you can ever have...
too much pitching but the Devil Rays seem to already have a ton of good starting pitchers with great potential on the verge. Neimann, McGee, Hellickson, Sonnanstine, Davis, Talbot, & Hammel all look lke major league pitchers with is exceptional imo (wow). I really only see the catcher position and relief crew as the weakness of the team now and in the future. My advice...go with what your team needs. I think Wieters will catch well enough in the majors to stick there. So, I would go with him with the your 1st pick. I would then try and find a college closer (much like Oakland did with Street and Washington did with Cordero) or a college starter with closer ability/stuff to advance quickly through the minors and soon set up for AL Reyes. In the latter rounds, and since Clemson's SP/RP Moskos & Maryland's RP/SP Cecil will likely be gone, I would target S. Carolina's Wynn Pelzer, Georgia's Josh Fields, Rice's Cole St. Clair (BA thinks that both Fields and St. Calir will slip out of the 1st round, not sure about that), & Vandy's Casey Weathers as later picks. Just my 2 cents.

by Havok1517 on May 16, 2007 10:03 PM EDT reply actions  

ideas
I like the ideas, but I doubt the top college closers will make it past the extremely long supplemental 1st round.

In which case, there may be some high ceiling high school starters around that can/could rival Price in talent by the time they reach Price's age. Let's not forget that most top college starters were rated in the 40's/50's of their high school classes. If they were consensus top 10 picks, they likely would have went straight to the draft. I'm a huge believer in 2nd-5th round high school pitching being more valuable than most college pitching taken in the 1st round. Not necessarily in the case of a David Price, but it's a general belief.

Rays in '08....

by youALREADYknow on May 16, 2007 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's just saying this
because he's part of the Cubs draft and he wants Price to be available with their pick :-)
Vice-Chairman of the Sonnanstine Underground Railroad

by Brickhaus on May 17, 2007 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

But
The Royals would swoop him up quickly. :)

by doublestix on May 17, 2007 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I swear...
If you choose Wieters over Price, you'll be made the butt of a joke in just about every Rays board/blog/site.

Good luck on that one, YaKKy

by The Rocc on May 16, 2007 10:39 PM EDT reply actions  

lol
Coming from you, that means a lot.

Then again, some people said the same thing about Lincecum last year and look how that turned out.

I really don't heavily favor one or the other because talent-wise there is no difference. Wieters has done just as much to prove his worth as a #1 pick as Price has. The only difference is real-life signability.

Rays in '08....

by youALREADYknow on May 16, 2007 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

eh
the rays will probably pick price,
the bloggers and message boarders can have that,
we should just take who we think is best.

by god allah star on May 16, 2007 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

exactly
Exactly right, we're drafting on talent since we don't have to sign these guys through agents. All I'm saying is that in terms of talent, Price and Wieters are neck and neck in my opinion.

I'd like to hear other opinions on those two guys just speaking about talent. Forget the agent, forget the hype, just give opinions on short-term and long-term projections and upside.

As far as the Rays actual pick, I think it's a lock they take Price barring injury or unforeseen late season collapse.

Rays in '08....

by youALREADYknow on May 16, 2007 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

AIM
i've got AIM if anyone else does and cares to use it also.

shoestryng

by god allah star on May 16, 2007 11:32 PM EDT reply actions  

Logic
Love the logic on the thought of taking Wieters. If for some reason Wieters has to move, He'll probably have the bat to handle 1B too if need be. I believe enough in the arms currently in the system to take Wieters 1st overall. Don't think it's how the MLB draft will play, but i like it.

by benzalman on May 16, 2007 11:43 PM EDT reply actions  

My Take
As much as I (and I suspect YAK) hate going along with the overwhelming majority in situations like these, there is wisdom in crowds, especially when there is this kind of majority.

The only question on Price all season has been pitch counts, and none of those have been ridiculous.  He's pretty much spotless other than overly nit-picky critisicms of him lacking #1 stuff.

There have been questions about Wieters' plate discipline and effort this spring, which is the reason, along with Boras, that he isn't in the discussion for #1 in real life and seems to not be an issue until #4 if the current buzz is to be believed.

(And don't attempt to refute the PD issue by quoting his BB/K ratio.  That isn't the whole story.  I watched one of his games on TV vs. USF when he missed badly at three straight changeups in the dirt against a guy that couldn't crack 90.  That says more than the one K in the boxscore indicates.  I'm not even mentioning the short and spotty history of 1st round college catchers.)

But even beyond those points, your logic that we have enough pitching and Price isn't an appreciable upgrade is flawed.  You can prefer McGee to Price (I do marginally, as well), but adding another McGee-talent isn't hurting anyone, and we all know more than enough about pitcher attrition, as well as our current hitting depth.

Hammel, Talbot, Sonny, Mason, etc. should be the last thing on your mind when making this pick.  Having too much elite pitching in the upper levels is the problem we're trying to have.  We've seen the Marlins amazing pitching depth already run out this season (Vandenhurk?) and also have seen the trouble we're having dealing excess hitters for a scarce commodity like pitching.

Even beyond the fact that pitching is a bigger need (for the #1 pick) than hitter, I don't think that Price and Wieters are that close in value, either.

The most important piece of imformation in this argument is 6'5.  As I said, I've heard questions about Wieters' defense and effort this year (despite the good arm) and while height is foolish as a singular tool to judge future defense, that is the driving force behind the contention that he isn't a long-term catcher.

If Wieters becomes, as many (and I) believe, a first baseman before his bat is of MLB All-Star quality (which is still probably 5 years or more away), is there even a question as to who to take?  That is why the Royals have Porcello and the Cubs have Vitters ahead of Wieters, and I can't blame them.

by TampaRays on May 17, 2007 1:50 PM EDT reply actions  

Wieters defense and plate discipline
His plate discipline is better than last season. Sure, you watched an at bat where he looked bad... but there have been innings where David Price has looked bad. Neither is perfect.

As for his defense, it's as bad as Tim Lincecum's mechanics are bad. Wieters is this year's Lincecum because he doesn't fit the typical mold. Instead of trying to draft cookie cutter players, just look at each guy as a different case.

Wieters has thrown out 35% of baserunners this year to go along with an arm that can throw 95MPH fastballs. Wieters has a .994 FPCT with only 2 passed balls.

Where do you see the question marks about his defense?

I do agree with you about the organization not passing on Price because we theoretically don't need a pitcher. That's a small part of my argument, but not really the reason I feel Wieters is the best pick. The reason I feel Wieters is the best pick is more about how rare a player of Wieters caliber is along with the Rays desperate need for a legit major league catcher.

Also, there's no true knowledge on who the Royals and Cubs have on their draft board. Not to mention, their board has nothing to do with making the correct decision for the Rays.

If we were going by other teams draft boards, the Rays would have taken Brad Lincoln last year.

Rays in '08....

by youALREADYknow on May 17, 2007 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

catchers
what do you think about the other catchers in the draft?  it seems like there are a lot near the top this year.  would we be better off taking price and a catcher with the 2nd pick, or taking wieters and a pitcher (unless there is clearly a better player of another position)

by god allah star on May 17, 2007 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

catchers vs pitchers
No other catchers possess the overall package of Wieters. With catchers, there's a real dropoff between the top end talents and the next tier. Plus, there are no premium high school catching prospects this year.

Arencibia is a terrible defensive catcher and Canham is nowhere near as good as Wieters.

Finding an all-star capable catcher in the draft is a rarity. Finding good high school arms in the draft is pretty routine in today's game.

Just look at the list of top pitching prospects and see how many of them are taken in the 2nd-5th rounds.

IF (and only IF, because it's clearly between Wieters and Price right now) Wieters is the first pick, I'm sure we can find some high upside high school arms in the 2nd and/or 3rd rounds to add to the pitching depth.

As has been said elsewhere, pitching attrition requires an organization to get and keep pitching depth. That's also the reason I feel pitching after the first round is usually more important than the pitching drafted in the 1st round. Look at the Rays for an example of drafting high school pitching after the first round... Shields, McGee, Davis, Hellickson, Walker.

Rays in '08.... Free Andy Sonnanstine.

by youALREADYknow on May 18, 2007 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

dropoff
of course there is going to be a huge dropoff when it's someone like Wieters vs .. everyone else.  I haven't heard too much of Canham other than his raps, which were okay.  The main benefit of drafting Price in my eyes is he'll be ready so much quicker than any HS arms and that at the very least should be a mid rotation guy, though we aren't making any deep playoff pushes for a few years so maybe that isn't too important.

we should start looking at the HS guys that are likely to be available for the 2nd pick.

by god allah star on May 18, 2007 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

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