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Can a pitcher earn a save without recording an out?

Can a pitcher earn a save without recording an out?

Situation: A relief pitcher comes into a game with the following situation:  9th inning, team ahead 1-0, bases loaded, two outs, 2-0 count on the batter.  He then proceeds to strike out the batter on three pitches.

Point of debate: Since the pitcher entered the game with a 2-0 count on the batter, is the at bat charged to the previous pitcher even if it's a positive outcome (postive for the pitcher)?  If so, then the relief pitcher could be on the mound when the game ended with a one run win but not have an out credited to him.

Anyone know how one would score this situation correctly?

0 recs  |  Comment 13 comments

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hmm
i thought that if he gets a K, he gets credit for the out. if he gives up a walk or a hit, the previous pitcher is responsible.

however, i do think that you can be credited with a save without recording an out. you come in to pitch with a small lead late in the game. before the first at-bat is over, it starts to rain and the game is eventually called. don't you get a save in this case? or was this rule changed recently?

by jpahk on May 16, 2007 12:31 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

That's right
the new reliever gets credit for the K, but the previous pitcher would get credit for a BB.  However, more to the point, a pitcher can record a save without recording an out or even throwing a pitch. Take for example, same exact situation, the reliever comes in and immediately picks off one of the runners for the third out -- or even more extreme, the catcher takes a pitch and pulls an Irod special and picks off the runner at first. Game over. Save earned.

by Roger on May 16, 2007 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

pickoff
i would consider that to be recording an out, even if it does not involve retiring a batter or throwing a pitch. you do get credit for a third of an inning pitched. for instance, if you come into a game with 2 out and a man on 2nd and give up a single, and then your outfielder nails the runner trying to score, you get a save (and 0.1 IP) even though you didn't retire a batter.

by jpahk on May 16, 2007 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Of course
You're right, that is officially 0.1 of an inning. Don't know what I was thinking. So then, no a pitcher can't earn a save without recording an out because any way that the final out occurs will be credited to his record. I should have thought that out better.

by Roger on May 16, 2007 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The last post is correct
If the reliever enters the game and the hitter has a 2-0 count (among many others) the result is charged to the previous pitcher if he walks, gives up a hit, etc...

I guess it would be more interesting if the count was 0-2 and the reliever comes in (why?  maybe the previous pitcher hurts his arm/knee/back and has to exit) and then the reliever strikes him the guy, because by the rules the previous pitcher gets the credit for the out.

Another interesting situation, although it is a save.  Reliever comes in and picks a runner(s) off to end the inning.  He's geting credit for a third of a inning pitched at least without "facing" a hitter.

Neat question.

"Strikeouts are good...groundballs are better. Home runs are okay...but walks SUCK!" Mike Caldwell

by Torncuff on May 16, 2007 1:06 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The pickoff situation
Has occurred a few times recently.  I believe it may have involved the Cubs last year, but I don't know what side they were on.
"...and the only things I've found better than listening to Vin Scully are listening to Keith Jackson and uncut cocaine." (bleedjaxblue)

by drjayphd on May 16, 2007 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just to clarify...
Rule 10.16 (h):

10.16 Earned Runs And Runs Allowed

(h) A relief pitcher shall not be held accountable when the first batter to whom he pitches reaches first base on four called balls if such batter has a decided advantage in the ball and strike count when pitchers are changed.
(1) If, when pitchers are changed, the count is
2 balls, no strike,
2 balls, 1 strike,
3 balls, no strike,
3 balls, 1 strike,
3 balls, 2 strikes,
and the batter gets a base on balls, the official scorer shall charge that batter and the base on balls to the preceding pitcher, not to the relief pitcher.
(2) Any other action by such batter, such as reaching base on a hit, an error, a fielder's choice, a force-out, or being touched by a pitched ball, shall cause such a batter to be charged to the relief pitcher.
Rule 10.16(h) Comment: The provisions of Rule 10.16(h)(2) shall not be construed as affecting or conflicting with the provisions of Rule 10.16(g).
(3) If, when pitchers are changed, the count is
2 balls, 2 strikes,
1 ball, 2 strikes,
1 ball, 1 strike,
1 ball, no strike,
no ball, 2 strikes,
no ball, 1 strike,
the official scorer shall charge that batter and the actions of that batter to the relief pitcher.

by Steve F on May 16, 2007 2:49 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

hmm
What if a reliever comes in with 2 outs and the bases loaded, in the middle of a rainstorm, and he throws two pitches (1-1 count) and the game is called.  Does he get a save?

by limozeen on May 16, 2007 4:01 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Interesting question
Is it possible that the previous pitcher would get the save?

by Zero Gs on May 16, 2007 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, a pitcher must record an out.
Below I pasted the MLB rule for saves. 10.19.c states that he much be credited with at least 1/3 of an inning pitched. In other words he must have gotten an out.

This also means that if a pitcher comes in with the bases loaded up by one run, pitches to a 1-2 count and gets hurt and leaves without retiring the batter (injury probably) and then the pitcher that replaces him gets the batter out, no one gets the save even though it had been a save situation because the pitcher that finished the game didnt get credited with 1/3 of an inning pitched.

<u>10.19 Saves For Relief Pitchers</u>
A save is a statistic credited to a relief pitcher, as set forth in this Rule 10.19.
The official scorer shall credit a pitcher with a save when such pitcher meets all four of the following conditions:
(a) He is the finishing pitcher in a game won by his team;
(b) He is not the winning pitcher;
(c) He is credited with at least a third of an inning pitched; and
(d) He satisfies one of the following conditions:
(1) He enters the game with a lead of no more than three runs and pitches for at least one inning;
(2) He enters the game, regardless of the count, with the potential tying run either on base, or at bat or on deck (that is, the potential tying run is either already on base or is one of the first two batters he faces); or
(3) He pitches for at least three innings.

by grozzy on May 16, 2007 4:16 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

hmmm...
... seems using the HTML tags for bolding works but underlining doesnt.

oops

by grozzy on May 16, 2007 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

always thought
that if a game is called..
the # of innings has to be same for each team..ie, reverts back to score when innings were equal

unless the team getting shorted the innings is already ahead..

if that's the case, then impossible to a get save without recording an out due to a weather-related or otherwise called game.
 

by dryice on May 16, 2007 6:48 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Not true
I don't think that's right.  Last year, the Twins had a big top of the inning, including a Morneau HR, before the game was called.  I think they kept the runs and the stats.

by limozeen on May 16, 2007 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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