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Prospect Retro: Brooks Kieschnick

Prospect Retro: Brooks Kieschnick

The Chicago Cubs drafted University of Texas star Brooks Kieschnick in the first round in 1993, 10th overall. A successful two-way player for the Longhorns, he became a full-time outfielder for the Cubs. He hit .341/.388/.495 in a 25-game Double-A trial after signing, excellent performance coming right out of college, and was expected to advance quickly. I'd give a similar player a Grade B+ nowadays at a minimum. He wasn't the toolsiest guy in the world, but he could hit and he worked hard.

Returned to Double-A in '94, Kieschnick had an OK but not spectacular season: .282/.332/.438 with 14 homers. Eddie Epstein gave him a Grade C in the 1995 Minor League Scouting Notebook. I remember thinking that this was too low; I thought Grade B would be more appropriate given his college performance and overall pedigree. Scouts complained that he had problems handling inside pitches.

Promoted to Triple-A in '95, Kieschnick had a solid year, hitting .295/.370/.495 for Iowa with 23 homers and 58 walks. I saw him play several times and the inside pitch problem didn't look important to me. He hit just .224 against lefties though and there was concern that he might end up as a platoon player in the long run. I gave him a Grade B and projected that he would be a good hitter but not a star.

Rather than give Kieschnick a shot at a job in '96, the Cubs signed Luis Gonzalez as a free agent and sent Kieschnick back to Iowa. Frustrated, Kieschnick began trying to hit the ball for power more aggressively. . .he tried to pull the ball more. It backfired, as he hit just .259/.315/.431 for Iowa with a deterioration in plate discipline and a higher strikeout rate. Ironically, he hit great in a brief trial with the Cubs: .345/.406/.517 in 25 games. I wrote that "there isn't anything wrong with Kieschnick that a regular job or a change of scenery won't cure" but lowered his rating to Grade B- since he was now 24.

Sent back to Iowa for a third time in 1997, he continued to be overly power conscious, hitting .258/.323/.492...he hit 21 homers in 97 games, but he wasn't as willing to take the ball to the opposite field as he'd been earlier in his career and was clearly trying to hit homers if you watched him play, hurting his OBP and batting average. He got into 39 games for the Cubs and hit just .200/.294/.356. I lowered his grade to C+; he was selected by the Devil Rays in the expansion draft.

Kieschnick got hurt in 1998 and didn't play in the majors, getting into just 38 minor league games on rehab assignment and falling out of Tampa's plans. He then began a trek through Triple-A in the Angels, Reds, Rockies and White Sox systems 1999 through 2002, showing good power in Triple-A but struggling with nagging and poorly-timed injuries. He was used as a pinch-hitter by the Rockies in 2001 and hit just .238, but with a .548 SLG in 35 games.

Realizing that he was now typecast as a "minor league slugger," Kieschnick converted to mound work in 2002 and did well, posting a 2.59 ERA in 25 games for Triple-A Charlotte. He was a fairly effective middle reliever for the Brewers in '03 and '04, before slipping back into the minors in '05 and out of baseball in '06.

In the minors, Kieschnick hit .278/.338/.491 in his career. Although considered a "failed first rounder" by most, in the majors he hit .248/.315/.444 with 16 homers in 306 at-bats...that's a 30-homer pace in a full season of play. There is little doubt in my mind that if he had been given a fair chance to play that he would have been a useful major league hitter, not a star, but someone who could be a useful platoon outfielder/first base type. In an alternate universe somewhere, the Cubs let him play in '96 and '97 and he ended up having a decent career.  

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Thanks John!
Love the retros about guys who "failed to meet expectations" they definitely help keep us in perspective.

by Metty5 on May 15, 2007 1:22 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

typical cubs
Why give a 1st round pick a legitimate shot to play? We can always sign Jack Jones and Cliff Floyd once they are in their mid 30s.

by aaronb on May 15, 2007 1:49 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

fair chance
306 ab in 257 games over 6 non consecutive seasons-
similar to the "chance" given to Petagine

at a certain point a self fullfilling prophecy takes over

  1. Prospect plays well in minors- but either GM or manager do not like/believe in said player- but minor league performance forces managements hand (Or GM puts unwanted player on 25 man roster)
  2. Player plays poorly for 2-3 games- is benched, plays sporadically or PHs for a month- get's demoted in order to get more "seasoning" or to add a second loogy to the roster.
  3. repeat the next year
  4. On the off chance the player gets hot? Well he better get REALLY hot and stay hot, or the first time he slumps he'll be benched again anyway.
5 years later player is no longer a prospect and has 250-400 lackluster MLB at bats- GM/Manager says , "see I told you"
anti-stathead types say, "see, minor league #s mean nothing".

Bad organizations do this to young players a lot.

by Johnny Ruin on May 15, 2007 1:54 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

luke scott says high.
i'm not making a comment about your sentiment, but luke scott exemplifies number 4.  
bazardo, koronka, durbin, and madson
Variables Don't; Constants Aren't

by overlord on May 15, 2007 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cubs Prospects
This thread just reminds me of Gary Scott, Mike Harkey, and Kevin Orie....being a Cubs fan sucks sometimes.

by goose102977 on May 15, 2007 2:14 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

And........
Lance Dickson, Brian Dayett, Bobby Hill, Hee Seop Choi, Nic Jackson.......being a Cubs fan sucks MOST of the time.
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by HuskerBob on May 15, 2007 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Choi
He ended up getting the Cubs Derrek Lee so he was at least useful for something.

by wibadger on May 15, 2007 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cubs Prospects
I had Robin Jennings reserved as a farm draft guy in my NL only roto league for about 3 years, after I dropepd him someone lese actually picked him up the next year...

by Johnny Ruin on May 15, 2007 2:32 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Typical...
I won't say this is typical of just the Cubs, but I am sure there are dozens of similar stories in baseball, and many of they are because the Major League club is always in a win-now mindset. Teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, and Cubs are never allowed to rebuild. They are always expected to go for the World Series every year, and when you do that, you can't give prospects as much time to produce and grow.

Take James Loney this season. He came up last year and did great during his time in the majors. Then this off-season instead of telling him that it was his job to lose, they signed a name player to a large contract and Loney gets sent down to the minors again. Will we be seeing a similar Retro on Loney in 7 years when he is out of baseball because some team didn't give him a chance until it was too late?

"Tim Lincecum will win 1 Cy Young and 11 Tim Lincecums." -uga007

by Boxkutter on May 15, 2007 3:16 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

demand a trade
I don't know why more agents don't demand a trade in these situations. For the most part I think agents are a nuisance, but in these situations they can help. There was no reason for Keischnick to be in AAA after putting up a OPS of .900 there the year before. There is no reason for Loney to be in AAA this year, and now actually being made in a platoon OF/1B guy.

I like what Ryan Howards agent said a few years back. Howard will not play another year in AAA and either he goes or Thome goes. Loney needs to be on this page or he will become Kieschnick

by ScottAZ on May 15, 2007 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Loney has no room to complain
He hasn't responded well to the Dodgers handling of him.  Right now, he's batting .252 with one home run and a .347 SLG at hitter friendly Las Vegas.  

Loney's 2006 season is looking more like a fluke as the days go by, this is the same guy who didn't slug higher than .419 in three adequate, but not impressive seasons between 2003-05.  

by sdbaseballfan on May 15, 2007 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

re
Probably because he's pissed that he's in AAA after nearly hititng .400 last year and then hitting .350 in the Bigs and doing very well in the postseason. He has nothing left to prove in the minors. Just as Upton in AAA last year.

by ScottAZ on May 15, 2007 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Heh.
Take James Loney this season. He came up last year and did great during his time in the majors. Then this off-season instead of telling him that it was his job to lose, they signed a name player to a large contract and Loney gets sent down to the minors again.

That "name player" was Luis Gonzalez.  Plus ca change....

by Steve F on May 15, 2007 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

this is very funny
man, gonzo has been around a long time. hell of a career, though.

by jpahk on May 16, 2007 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Matt Murton
The same thing is going on with Matt Murton now. He is younger, a better defender and has a better plate approach and is putting up better numbers than Cliff Floyd is right now. Yet Cliff gets most of the starts because he is a "proven vet". It isnt about being in a win now mode as much as GM's and Managers are afraid to sit a vet in lieu of a kid unless they have to.

by aaronb on May 16, 2007 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Murton and piniella
Piniella's not Baker- eventually he'll sort it out and play the best player without regard to reputation

Murton and Floyd have almost exactly the same # of PAs so far- and to be fair to Floyd he's hitting aklmsot exactly as well as Murton

Soriano and Jones have been playing everyday

Jones is the one who should be losing ABs- he can't hit lefties if he life depended upon it- .227/.274/.349 for his career.

by Johnny Ruin on May 16, 2007 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pitchers as everyday players?
In our lifetime (40-50 years down the road), will we ever see a starting pitcher take his turn in the rotation and then play the field/or DH for four straight games?

I understand having a big league quality pitcher and hitter in the same body is a long-shot, but it would be nice to see a baseball club give it a shot for once, everything else has been experimented with.  One of these college pitcher-hitter studs we've seen throughout the years might be able to hack it, we won't know though unless somebody takes a chance and tries it.  

by sdbaseballfan on May 15, 2007 3:44 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Thats why Brooks was/is
such a bad ass.

Also, I think the Giants are another team who really yank around prospects. Linden and Frandsen are both guys that I think have really been yanked around so far and haven't ever gotten a fair shake. You could make a case for Lance Niekro as well. I also fear this could happen to Schierholtz as well. With Bonds Winn and Roberts, they might do the player has to get hot fast to actually have a shot as written above, which could screw him. I just don't really trust the Giants to effectively manage their young talent.

by wildthang on May 15, 2007 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

arm
maybe a pitcher/DH could do it, but can you imagine the pitcher trying to throw the ball with serious intent the day after throwing 100 pitches?

Anyone who's ever pitched will tell you that's a bad idea...

by Johnny Ruin on May 15, 2007 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

how bout
a reliever/position player...they can warm up on the side like huston street did in the CWS

by nyybaseball99 on May 15, 2007 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

re
for the record, i think its unlikely, because the game has only been getting more specialized...but then again i cant see it getting more specialized than it is now

maybe we need an owner like bill veeck or charlie finley for it to happen

by nyybaseball99 on May 15, 2007 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He should've focused on both...
...at the same time, he could've chosen his NL team for 10 years if he had done both earlier in his career I bet. I know that it's really hard to focus on both, but it definitely would've been fun to watch.
No dude, Metsin07

by uga007 on May 15, 2007 4:37 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

FWIW
Never met the guy but I like Brooks Kieschnick as a player, ever since he made the change to pitcher. Have a couple signed cards of him that I had a friend get when they played at Corpus together in '05....Good guy from all that I've heard. Last I know he was an orthopedic surgery supply rep in Texas(pretty decent gig for those of you that don't know, considering a single ortho screw costs about 1200)
Curtis Granderson fan

by jrose643 on May 15, 2007 8:47 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Brooks
I (and artie) was at UT when Brooks was there.  We considered him to be...well, how about Lincecum/Hughes/Bailey and Delmon/BJ/Pujols all wrapped up into one neat little package.  Brooks.  Was.  God.

When I saw him debut with the Cubs, he appeared to be a completely different player.  It looked like he had added on a couple of pounds, but, most importantly, his bat simply looked slower.

I've always wondered what happened.  He didn't look like the same guy who I had watched just a couple of years earlier.  Did he peak too early physically?  That's been my conjecture, but I dunno.

@HuskerBob: Hook em!  see you on Oct 27 :-)

by bigfatdrunk on May 15, 2007 9:51 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Impressive early smack talk
Like Christmas, the college football season starts earlier and earlier!

by BIgMax on May 16, 2007 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah
I don't like Texas a whole lot.  Definitely not in my top ten favorite places......probably not top 100.  James Brown and Priest Holmes can still suck an egg for costing us the 96 title that would have made it 4 in a row.
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by HuskerBob on May 16, 2007 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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