Worst GM in baseball?
Looking for the board's thoughts on who is the worst GM in baseball ... yes MLB talent matters, clearly minor league talent matters, Ws, Ls, available resources ... so who is at the bottom?
I'm not going to vote and skew the boards thoughts, but there is one in particular I find almost repulsive in his lack of vision/acumen. So who is it?
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64 comments
Comments
Tim Purpura
by Shamus on Apr 26, 2007 12:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
hmmmm
Bavasi has to the guy, even though he is not 100% in charge and needs Japan to sign off on things.
Jim Bowden strikes me as incompetent. He got lucky on some trades, but he doesn't make enough trades since he always asks for too much.
by elricsi on Apr 26, 2007 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No "Anti-Love" for Purpura
Since then all of his moves have sucked. The Hirsh trade was the worst move in the last few years. At least the Rangers got a RP for Gonza and Young. The Stros got a hurt pitcher for a guy that will likely finish in the top 3 of ROY. And remember he didn't even sign Jennings in the trade so he will likely walk out or stay with a 50+ million contract.
And the Lidge situation is stupid. His replacement value over Wheeler is negative, but he refused to deal him when he had value.
There is no track record for Purpura but the marks that he is starting to make are as bad as any GMs beginning.
by Shamus on Apr 26, 2007 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bavasi
As a Mariners fan, watching Bavasi deal Chris Snelling, Rafael Soriano, Shin-Soo Choo, and Asdrubal Cabrera in the last year for Jose Vidro, Horacio Ramirez, Ben Broussard, and Eduardo Perez has been like watching a guy shove a red-hot knitting needle into his eye--it hurts to watch, I have no idea why he'd do it, and it leaves me feeling sick to my stomach. All the players traded have potential in the future, while the ones the M's got in return will never be part of the next winning team in Seattle.
Bavasi has no vision, no common sense, and no aptitude for his job. Can there be a worse GM?
by WTP on Apr 26, 2007 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh...
by WTP on Apr 26, 2007 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely
by Pitt craws on Apr 26, 2007 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This one is EASY
by montenegro on Apr 26, 2007 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
2002 Angels
by sdbaseballfan on Apr 26, 2007 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bavasi's
by Crows Landing on Apr 26, 2007 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bavasi's gotta be near the bottom
Freddy for Reed/Olivo/Morse
Soriano for Ramirez
Snelling and Fruto for Vidro
Choo and Cabrera for Broussard/Perez
Winn for Torrealba/Foppert
Crappy Signings:
Beltre
Washburn
Batista
Everett
Spiezo
Aurelia
Also didn't fire Hargrove
by Fett42 on Apr 26, 2007 12:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Bavasi
by Fundamentals on Apr 26, 2007 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll put him under the bus too...
Wren (Angelos), Thrift (Angelos), Beattie and Flanagan get a group nomination too. Zero playoff appearances over the last decade finishing 4th each year.
by Con on Apr 26, 2007 1:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
They actually finished 3rd in 2004...
by dkdc on Apr 26, 2007 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow ...
Maybe I'm just wrong ...
by design28 on Apr 26, 2007 1:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
hendry
[answer: trading for juan pierre]
by kinbote on Apr 26, 2007 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+ 1
I honestly have no idea where the Cubs will be in 5 years, but it doesn't look good.
by SenorGato88 on Apr 26, 2007 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Deep pocket?
by aCone419 on Apr 26, 2007 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought I posted this already
by Dfarth on Apr 26, 2007 2:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Gillick
by KaoticKlown on Apr 26, 2007 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To be fair...
by WTP on Apr 26, 2007 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That should say...
I've got Bavasi on the brain.
by WTP on Apr 26, 2007 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
worst gm
by djshelto on Apr 26, 2007 2:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Bavasi
by Brickhaus on Apr 26, 2007 2:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Krivsky
by Dfarth on Apr 26, 2007 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bruce and Bailey?
by cooper7d7 on Apr 26, 2007 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh you're right
by Dfarth on Apr 26, 2007 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You
by FrozenTed9 on Apr 26, 2007 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dan O'Brien
by BoydsOfSummer on Apr 28, 2007 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
GMs and prospects
by igreen01 on Apr 28, 2007 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even first rounders?
by cooper7d7 on May 1, 2007 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brandon Phillips for a pizza ...
Why, Wayne, why did you give away Kearns, though?
by design28 on Apr 26, 2007 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Steve Phillips...
by MetfanBren on Apr 26, 2007 3:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
In defense of Phillips....
by Lunkwill Fook on Apr 26, 2007 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep..
by MetfanBren on Apr 26, 2007 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Phillips
by Brickhaus on Apr 26, 2007 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Amazing
by Lunkwill Fook on Apr 26, 2007 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Phillips
by andy 5 on Apr 26, 2007 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
someone mentioned sabean
Oh yeah, they have the worst offense in the league(yes worst than the nationals, pirates, Astros, Angels) AND they have Barry Bonds.
by Team Moneyball on Apr 26, 2007 3:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Winning is the great equalizer
by Brickhaus on Apr 26, 2007 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To be fair
The Giants needed a catcher for the future and at the time AJ could be had.
At that time Nathan looked like he could be a decent bullpen arm but he couldn't find the plate with a map and a compass.
Bonser was a top prospect for a while but there was little certainty that he would become a good major leaguer.
Lirano, while a hard throwing lefty, was an oft-injured AA SP. He had an arm but he was not an elite prospect by any means. His injury concerns kept him off that list. We have since found out that those concerns were warranted.
I hate the trade in retrospect but hindsight is 20/20. Sabean's biggest blunder is giving away draft picks for old role players and refusing to develop minor league hitters.
by caintastic on Apr 26, 2007 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
nathan
If your team needed a closer bad, would you trade this guy? I wouldn't. Pierzynski had a good year the year before, for a catcher its above average. Prior to that he was nothing special. I wouldn't deal nathan for him straight up in 2003. I'm guessing he thought nathan wouldn't work in the pen because he wasn't a "proven" closer. But his skills were pretty damn elite and that oversight was huge.
Adding in Bonser who was a top prospect for them and Liriano, who was coming off health issues, but still had an electric arm was too much. Sure they both could have totally flamed out. Doesn't mean you should deal them just because. Sure hindsight this trade looks terrible, but at the time it still wasn't a good one.
They've won 75-76 games in the past two years. Problem is this team was considered geriatric in 2002, when they lost the world series. Since then, they've gotten older and worse. I don't really call the past 2-3 years of his signings to be inspired in anyway.
On top of that the farm system went to hell because he was signing guys that would cost him draft picks. His theory was that prospects are all risks and if they flame out you lose whatever money you paid them. This of course is possible, but lots of teams live off their farm systems and prospects and prospects, in the end, are way cheaper than some old veteran who produces at the league average. In addition, they have a pretty good payroll, a nice packed park and money. Rich teams that develop a farm system in theory should allow them to keep lower payrolls. Sabean ignored this idea completely. But I'll give him credit for changing his plan. But considering the rare 1st rounder they took turned out to be Matt Cain it would be difficult not to alter his approach.
About the farm system, when was the last time the system produced a bat? I'm not sure when Sabean came on board as GM, but some blame for the lackluster system should be put on his shoulders. Fortunately, Cain and Lincecum are definite pluses for his tenure.
by Team Moneyball on Apr 26, 2007 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd put Sabean....
You point out two things Sabean did badly: 1) his team RIGHT NOW is up sh*t's creek, and 2) he made one really horrendous trade.
Blaming him for the first point -- that the organization is royally screwed now -- seems extremely unfair, as this was the inevitable eventual result of creating a team so competitive for so long. It actually reminds me of his NFL counterpart -- the 49ers -- who had perhaps the best team of the late '80s and most of the '90s. In order to keep this great collection of talent together, the '9ers sacrificed their future by taking cap penalties on top of cap penalties, meaning, when the team's talent finally wore out, they were destined to be one of the league's worst for year's to come, with no flexibility to improve. Sabean similarly has delayed his team's decline into mediocrity, actually keeping them competitive year in and year out. Eventually, it caught up with him. But he (and everyone else) had to know this was coming, and it was a sacrifice almost anyone would have made in exchange for that period of success.
As for the one bad trade, Sabean had a philosophy: Pitching prospects are better traded before anyone realizes they're not prospects. The Giants made great success of this strategy in tens of trades, unloading useless minor leaguers for genuine big league talent year in and year out. One time, probability reared its ugly head and bit him in the @$$ about as badly as it could have: Liriano and Nathan got healthy, and Bonser wasn't lost to TINSTAAP. Of course, Liriano's hurt again, but that's not the point. The point is, the nature of the strategy will lead to lots of very good trades where you sacrifice nothing coupled with the very occasional disaster, when the prospects you didn't believe in end up panning out. Is that a great long-term strategy? Maybe not. But the Giants did pretty damn well with it, and it's not like "pitching depth" is their need right now (though I suppose the bullpen could use Nathan).
Anyway, what Sabean deserves a ton of credit for is properly identifying role players and other semi-castoffs at or past the peaks of their respective careers who can contribute a good season or two. The Giants have identified these players better than any other franchise in the game over the past ten years, and he deserves credit for taking that strategy. It's funny, because it's almost a "Moneyball" strategy of its own, since every other GM has tried to improve their teams through their own farm systems or through big-money free agents, but Sabean steered clear of these saturated markets and found his own niche to excell in.
by bleedjaxblue on Apr 26, 2007 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, but...
by amos on Apr 26, 2007 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not quite
by caintastic on Apr 26, 2007 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not since '01?
by Roger on Apr 26, 2007 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"haven't made the playoffs....
Maybe you meant "haven't made the World Series since 2002".
Or else it was a typo, and you meant "haven't made the playoffs since 2003," when they won 100 games and took the NL West easily.
So, really, you're talking about three years of not making the playoffs, all of which they had a legitimate shot at the post-season going into September.
What more do you want than that?
Sure, they could have decided to clean house and start rebuilding sooner, but then people would have just complained sooner, and it's not clear they would have been in any better pulling a fire sale then. The team was stripped, and Sabean made the choice to keep attendances up rather than rebuild from the ground up (which he would have had to do).
Obviously, as a fan of younger talent, I hate the types of players he's pursued, but many have done pretty well for him, like Vizquel. And, besides that one trade, who has he given away? He's acquired tons of talent in deadline deals, and never sacrificed any of their future. Cain? Still there. Lincecum? There. Lowry? Sanchez? There, and there. Meanwhile, he got Jason Schmidt for Ryan Vogelsong and Armando Rios. You're not upset at him for giving away Jesse Foppert, Jerome Williams and David Aardsma, are you? So who are the other players for their "future" who they've traded away that you're thinking of?
by bleedjaxblue on Apr 26, 2007 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sabean
Since then though I dont know what to point to. His signings and his zito-deal hardly shows he knows how to exploit the market.
by Team Moneyball on Apr 26, 2007 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Schmidt
by Roger on Apr 26, 2007 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
traded Ryan Vogelsong...
My mom's a die-hard Pirates fan, meaning I actually follow them closely, and I can promise you that Schmidt was a supremely talented pitcher before he went to SF, and that I've never been so upset with another franchise for a trade in my life. It was a great trade, but it didn't take genius to know it was a ripoff at the time. It never made any sense.
As for the rest, the Zito signing is crap, but this is a totally different era, and I don't think that decision reflects his strategy over the rest of his tenure. It reflects TODAY'S strategy, which is to try to keep attendances from plummetting while the team falls apart (which is already acknowledged to be inevitable), given that the Giants have tons and tons and tons of money to spend.
Meanwhile, some of the talent Sabean has brought in include Robb Nen and Ellis Burks. Jeff Kent and J.T. Snow came over in his first season as a GM, though I don't know if they were his acquisitions or not. Some people he got cheap who did well include Omar Vizquel, Marquis Grissom, Scott Eyre, Livan Hernandez and David Bell. Not sexy names, for sure, but that's the whole point: Sabean knew how to pick up people who no one else was interested in who would add a lot to the team. And I'm positive my list isn't exhaustive of the names he brought over; these are just the ones I can remember off the top of my head.
by bleedjaxblue on Apr 26, 2007 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sabean is Terrible
Sabean should be judged not only by what he's accomplished but by what he's made out of his situation - very little given the overall scenario.
Plus - This offseason was a joke. Resigning Pedro Feliz?! You simply can't make that move and be a good GM. Can anyone even imagine Billy Beane making that move?
by Nolan on Apr 26, 2007 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pedro Feliz
And consider this about Sabean ... How many other franchises with new ballparks have been as successful as the Giants over the past 10 years?
by StickRat on Apr 26, 2007 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously?
- You're right, Aurilia and Klesko complement the Feliz signing perfectly - another two over-the-hill injury risks who are very, very bad defenders, can't run and, when healthy, would be lucky to OPS .750. Throw in Dave Roberts, Matt Morris and Mike Matheny and you've got quite a group.
- Feliz is so horrible that no amount of defense would make a difference. He's basically Rey Ordonez at third.
- "And consider this about Sabean ... How many other franchises with new ballparks have been as successful as the Giants over the past 10 years?"
by Nolan on Apr 26, 2007 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously? No, I am never serious ...
by StickRat on Apr 27, 2007 2:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
3
by nyr2k2 on Apr 26, 2007 5:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What about....
by bl on Apr 26, 2007 6:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Jim Duquette
by mtk52983 on Apr 26, 2007 6:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I thought that was Phillips
by RVachon on Apr 26, 2007 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Littlefield
I say Bavasi is worse, but Littlefield is right there. The common theme with both these idiots is that the owners/Presidents, - Howard Lincoln, and Bob Nutting (previously Kevin McClatchy) are not baseball people. They are dedicated to winning, but that winning has to be way under budget....
And before you try to defend Lincoln, ask yourself why the M's never added a player down the stretch when they had consistent winners?
by Robinson Checo on Apr 26, 2007 8:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Sabean, Krivsky, Bavasi, Gillick...
master observer
Sabean
"Duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.....OK"
master negotiator
Krivsky,
"them old farts like Martinez sure can hit...hmmm what's Vidro's number"
master talent evaluator
Bavasi
and last but not least
"with crap like Howard, Burrell, Utley, Myers, Abreau, Hamels...damn, can't see no light at the end of THIS tunnel..."
master rebuider
Gillick
.....
Its a 4 WAY TIE!
by dryice on Apr 27, 2007 12:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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