I wish -- just by some miracle -- instead of getting frantic and incomprehensible, you'd become frantic and spit out some type of evidence. Mocking people for what they're NOT saying doesn't win you any arguments; evidence does.

Thats the pECOTA LINE FOR young RIGHT?

iF Chris Young can hit like that and play as good of CF as Ive heard he can in somewhere like Seattle or Shea or Petco park and for a full season(s). This would be BETTER than Eric Davis!

Thats right around Beltran territory. Maybe he will.

I THINK he might hit somewaht like Mike Cameron did in 2001 in Seattle (one of the toughest places to hit in the game)

.267  .353   .480   Gold Glove defense in CF, All-Star.

Not .400 OBP...not .600 slugging

Just like Mike maybe superficailly better with adjustment for his park but about that good. Tell him to go bak to striking out more too because his power, walks, speed and defense will carry him, not his average.

Just like Mike Cameron, regardless of whether there minor league records are similar...I dont care.

Thats what I think. You dont think anything apparently. You wont even say he WILL ACCOMPLISH that Pecota line with regularity. YOU predict something. YOU as good an expert as annybody else.

But I can't let those last two statements go.

"Great players dont play whole years at AAA"

Really? So Mike Piazza isn't a great player? How about Lance Berkman? Or Ryan Howard, who spent two years there?

Of course, Ryan Howard belongs to the much ODDER crowd -- great players who were still in the minors at age 24. Of course, Howard was blocked. Why was Cameron still there?

I really don't think it says much at all that Chris Young, at 22-years-old, spent most of the season at triple-A. That's perfectly appropriate. And there's certainly no "rule" that, if you spend a year in triple-A (at an appropriate age), you aren't great. Just as there's no rule that, if you SKIP triple-A, you ARE great. Especially when that skipping comes when you're already 24.

"Young NEVER had a good of year as Cameron in 1996 at Birmingham"

Would you PLEASE let this year go. It's not half as impressive as you think it is.

Why don't we try putting Chris Young BACK in double-A next year, so that he'll be Cameron's age.

We'll ALSO be allowing him to repeat a league for the first time (which, even if YOU refuse to acknowledge it, is widely considered a HUGE discounter on performance).

Young's year was barely worse than Cameron's despite being two years younger and NOT being a repeater. Cameron had an anomalously good year based on the fact he was repeating a league he was too old for (hence the absurd OPS in a pitchers league). Get over it. Seriously.

Cameron's a good player. Every indication (and I do mean EVERY indication) is that Young could be better. That doesn't mean Cameron didn't have a nice career, nor that Young is certain to. Hence is the nature of being a prospect.

I'm out.

i also tend not to give as much credit to centerfield positional scarcity as to shortstops/second basemen/catchers, but maybe i'm underestimating that.

i made my point about defense much earlier -- it's as overrated as it is underrated, since you need a HUGE difference in your skill compared to others to overcome what a small proportion of the game it is in comparison to offense.

as for him being a top 50 player, i don't buy it at all. that would have made the xavier nady-for-mike cameron trade one of the most perplexing in history. underrated, maybe, but there are a boatload of players i would take before mike cameron.

hell -- we just had a thread a week ago about whether carl crawford was a top 50 player (http://www.minorleagueball.com/story/2007/3/22/3611/60889). albeit, that list included pitchers, but no one came CLOSE to mentioning cameron's name. too controversial? maybe. but i would stick with "completely undeserving."

Cameron 2001: .267/.353/.480
Hernandez 2002: .288/.356/.478

Cameron was much better defensively, but the positional scarcity is even greater at shortstop.

Altogether, it would be inappropriate to refer to either of these players as "an all-star." As it would be for Steve Ontiveros or Henry Rodriguez, both of whom TOTALLY deserved their all-star game appearances.

When you look around baseball, Mike Cameron isn't a top 15 outfielder. So calling him "an all-star" (when he was recently traded straight-up for Xavier Nady) is an exaggeration.

seriously, though -- i love mark redman. but, like, MARLINS mark redman. kc mark redman was just brutal.

in fairness, though, i can't believe i forgot to put lance carter on that list. there've been a few really brutal pirates recently too.

cameron has been quietly strong, but if you just told me that line and nothing else about the player, i'd expect more.  

who knows.  maybe it was worse.  park factors change over time.  it might have been a totally different building for all i know.  that's all i meant.  i try not to make assumptions; it's one of my strong points.  if you can't see that i'm a painfully sincere servant of the truth you need to relax.  

i'm about done with this.  i think we've all made our point about as well as our point is going to get made.

Which is about what Cameron has, except a higher BA.

I have no idea where you're making up me saying "he has less power than Cameron" from. I said, "he has less power than some project."