Best pitching staffs

by nheck on Feb 25, 2007 7:38 PM EST Comment 31 comments

I'm not going to lie to you and say the reason why I'm starting this diary isn't fantasy related, but while I was researching for it the questions piled up. We all know who are the best pitchers in the majors but who has the best pitching staff?

Right now my top 4 look like this (in that order):

Tigers
Dodgers
Angels
Red Sox

Who would you choose?

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Brewers

should be good, with a little improvement from young pitchers:

Sheets
Suppan
Capuano
Bush
Vargas

Maybe not top 3 on paper, but they could be top 5 if things break well.

Are you just talking about rotations, or entire staff from top to bottom?

by siddfynch on Feb 25, 2007 7:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Entire staff

I considered the Brewers, but then I also remembered the putrid defense they have in some positions.

by nheck on Feb 25, 2007 8:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Guy-ardo

don't forget him. He'll be there by June.

by Galt on Feb 26, 2007 9:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Sleeper Staff: Brewers

If Ben Sheets is healthy, they have a guy that is arguably the best pitcher in the NL.

David Bush is one of the biggest sleeper pitchers in the league (and this has been like that for a while). He's been getting more groundballs than he did in Toronto, he has some of the best control in the league, and he has much better stuff than anyone seems to give him credit for. He's Roy Oswalt-lite right now. Really the only major difference between him and Oswalt is the 8 HRs in 10 less innings. Both have great control, strong K rates, and good fastballs/slow curveballs.

Capuano is a good young starter also. Suppan should be a solid #4, and the number 5 start (they have a decent group to pick from) should also be above average.

Seriously, people should watch out for the Brewers this year.

by SenorGato88 on Feb 25, 2007 7:46 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

My Top Four

Red Sox
Dodgers
Tigers
White Sox

by dlpme77 on Feb 25, 2007 7:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

The Marlins come to mind

Maybe not top 5 but def. top 10...

Isn't it funny how if this diary had been posted before last year pretty much everyone would have been saying that the ChiSox were the best.

by Dfarth on Feb 25, 2007 7:53 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Sox

If all the pieces fall in place, they will have the best staff, and pitching in the AL East, the numbers might not indicate that.

by ChrisRef19 on Feb 25, 2007 8:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

The Red Sox won't have the best era

But they could have the best adjusted era.

by thedude on Feb 25, 2007 8:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Angels

I give the top spot to the Angels, if Bartolo Colon is healthy. If he is, they are sick:

Colon
Lackey
Escobar
Weaver
Santana

And unlike the Red Sox, they also have a great bullpen, with one of the best closers in K-Rod, and then Speier, Shields, Carrasco and more. Their staff is just ridiculous.

by kramerica1515 on Feb 25, 2007 8:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Twins

I don't think you can ignore the upside of the Twins, especially considering that the bullpen is the best in baseball hands down.

Even with three big question marks in the rotation, they're still a top 10 staff with potential to be a lot better if guys like Baker, Perkins, Garza, and Slowey contribute down the stretch.

by limozeen on Feb 25, 2007 9:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Twins?

Santana
Silva
Ortiz
Ponson
Bonser

Their are really four holes in that rotation and Baker, Perkins, Garza and Slowey are all unproven prospects. If one of them proves to be a serviceable major league starter this year the Twins will consider it a success. Its possible one of them will turn into something more than that, but not likely. They all project to spend most of the year at AAA.

The Twins success depends on Silva, Ortiz, Ponson and/or Bonser and, even optimistically, that isn't a dominant rotation. The bullpen is outstanding, but its very likely going to be worn out by the end of May if that group pitches the way they did last year.

by TT on Feb 25, 2007 9:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

reasonable

I think that's reasonable. However with the runs that the bullpen and Santana save, I don't think you can put the Twins much below #10 in the league.

I have a pretty good feeling about Bonser, but I don't anticipate Silva, Ortiz, or Ponson to do anything.

Garza is unproven but I think on stuff alone he can be league average...much better if he matures. Perkins, Slowey, and Baker all have breakout potential as well.

As it stands, I think they're a little above average (10 as opposed to 15) right now, but I think they have more room for growth than any team above them.

And don't confuse this with me saying that the Twins are going to be a really good team because they have a long ways to go and need several breakouts to achieve that. They need better than the tenth best rotation in baseball to make the postseason in this division.

by limozeen on Feb 25, 2007 9:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Too bad

The twins are retarded and will be handing jobs to Ortiz, Silva, and Ponson and letting many of Garza, Bonser, Baker, and Slowey either waste time in the minors or low-leverage time in the bullpen.

by Galt on Feb 26, 2007 9:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Giants?

The Giants bullpen probably takes them out of the running, but their rotation could be one of the better ones in baseball:

Zito
Cain
Morris
Lowry
Ortiz/Sanchez/Lincecum?

Now, if Mando is healthy and effective, the bullpen could jell under the direction of Bruce Bochy and they could be a staff to be reckoned with.

BTW, I would take Boston and Detroit as #1,2. Detroit's bullpen may be a tad deeper.

by DrBGiantsfan on Feb 25, 2007 9:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Detroit

I gotta go Detroit then Angles and then Boston.

Detroit has the best starters in the league, then Boston and then the Angles. But the Angles have the best bullpen followed closely by Detroit, and Bostons Pen is pretty pitiful. Yankees aren't bad, and Brew Crew is good but their BP is weak too.

by Metty5 on Feb 25, 2007 9:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, I agree with that...

At first I was just thinking rotation, and with that I had to go with the Red Sox or maybe even the Dodgers, but if you factor in bull pens, then the Angels and Detroit move to the top.

by beastball on Feb 25, 2007 9:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yep

If it's entire staff, then the Angels seem pretty solid. They basically have a rotation of #2s and 3s, and a knockout bullpen.

by siddfynch on Feb 25, 2007 10:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Couple rotations could be in the top 10 this year

Cubs - Zambrano, Hill, Lilly, Marquis and then hope for Wade Miller or Mark Prior

Phillies - Myers, Garcia, Hamels, Moyer and Eaton/Lieber

Bullpens are a question mark however as 5 starters go - both these rotations are very good ON PAPER.

by slickwdb on Feb 26, 2007 7:06 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

don't really know

how people can pick Detroit over Boston.

Player by player Boston is better. Detroit certainly has more upside, but Boston is better at this point, clearly.

by Galt on Feb 26, 2007 9:38 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Well...

everyone will hate me for this, but I have to do it:

The Yankees rotation can be among the better ones. Take a look-see:

Chien-Ming Wang
Mike Mussina
Andy Pettitte
Kei Igawa
Carl Pavano/Karstens/Hughes

That isn't bad at all. However, I will admit, for it to be a top rotation everything must fall into place: Wang must pitch like last year, with little room for being worse, same with Mussina. Pettitte will have to pitch under 4.00 era, which is certainly not unthinkable. Kei Igawa must pitch with an ERA less than 4.25. Pavano has to be healthy, and pitching with an ERA less than 4.50. These things are not unthinkable and if it all falls into place, this could be a very good rotation.

by yanksfan6129 on Feb 26, 2007 9:48 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

if if if if everything goes well

Baltimore could have a great rotation too

by Galt on Feb 26, 2007 10:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You are hoping for more than I am

as a Cubs fan.

You are expecting that Wang will continue to fly against the norm that all his peripherals indicate. Unless he doubles his K rate - he will probably end up with a 4.3 ERA and 15 wins, a far cry from last year. Petite was not a great pitcher in NY. There was a mystique about him because of postseason. However, I believe the year he won 21 games, he had a 4 ERA and the highest average run support of any starting pitcher in the league. At 34 and moving back to facing 9 hitters, I don't think you can expect him to improve on 14 wins and 4.2 ERA from last year.

I don't even put the Yankess rotation in the top 15.

If you want to talk about a rotation with potential - Arizona - Webb, Johnson, Livan, Doug Davis and Juan Cruz.

Padres - Peavy, Young, Maddux, Hensley and Wells.

How are either of those 2 rotations less than the Yankees. At least the Padres and Diamondbacks have a true #1 starter. Yankees should not even be in this discussion.

by slickwdb on Feb 26, 2007 2:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yankees

Hate the Yankees. Would take their rotation over Arizona any day.

Webb - ace
Johnson - 5 era in NY. Innings eater at this point and will continue to break down
Livan - another innings eater
Davis - solid
Cruz - not a big fan

Wang - under-rated and wouldn't be surprised to see him repeat
Mussina - very solid and can be an ace still
Pettite - big question mark (either very good or could be hurt)
Igawa - I think he will have a big year but not so high on his future after first year
Hughes - Pavano will be ok but I think Hughes will do what Weaver did and go apeshit in the 2nd half.

Sure they have a lot of questions. But the Yankees rotation has way more potential.

Dukes is Jurastically better than Bradley. After all Dukes has been playing baseball ever since T-ball.

by pedrophile on Feb 27, 2007 12:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

my top 4

Red Sox
Brewers
Angels
Tigers (not #1 - they still have Todd Jones)...

The bullpens for each are high quality. I give the nod to the Red Sox for their depth at SP. Brewers probably have the highest upside right now, with the Angels a very close second. I love the Angels' pen - probably the best of all of these. The Tigers have all that talent and power arms, but with Pudge behind the plate they are helping that staff succeed. Put Pudge on another team like Philly or SD and we might be putting them in the top 4 instead. BTW - Philly might have the best 1-3 SP, even better than BOS or MIL.

Jim Leyland:manager-Ty Cobb:player

by TigerFanInCleveland on Feb 26, 2007 12:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

um

yea cause the pitching like bonderman, verlander, miller, zumaya ect just sucks.

good call.

by High Heater on Feb 26, 2007 5:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ft Myers Miracle

Best Rotation in baseball

by Terry Ryan Jr on Feb 26, 2007 1:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

i just thought i'd point out

it's absolute folly to attempt to project bullpen quality in february. established closers are at least somewhat projectable (although every year, there are a few previously-reliable guys that go boom: francisco cordero, lidge, foulke, and benitez are recent examples). but 80% of the bullpen innings are going to be pitched by guys whose performance is pretty much all over the map. some guys will go all cla meredith on the league and not allow a run for months; some will sport ERAs that look like boeing models; and of course many will get hurt. and it's more or less random which ones will do which.

nobody expected the indians bullpen to be utterly dominant in '05--it just kind of happened out of nowhere. then in '06 they were horrible, essentially for no reason--they let some guys go whose success looked unsustainable, and then they suffered some injuries, and then everybody they had left just started getting lit up.

there are teams that do a good job of stockpiling arms (the twins and A's come to mind), but even the very best teams have no more than about a 25% chance to have a really great (ERA < 3.50) bullpen. everybody is trying to catch lightning in a bottle for 70 innings. from the law of large numbers, we know that some of them will do it--we just don't know which ones.

starting pitchers are also a little hard to project, but at least it's not stupid to try.

by jpahk on Feb 26, 2007 4:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Hmmm...disagree somewhat...

Given their performance over the past three years, I'd much rather have Shields and FRod than any other bullpen duo out of the staffs we're discussing.

It's not stupid to project guys like that, or Rivera or Wagner or others. Sure, some of these guys blow up, but out of the ones with a consistent high performance track record, they are fiarly predictable. And sure some no-names emerge, but that doesn't mean we should give up attempting to evaluate a bullpen.

by beastball on Feb 28, 2007 2:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'll take:

The Cubs if Mark Pryor and Kerry Wood are healthy (thats a joke!). Definitely Boston if Papelbon throws from the pen and Lester joins the staff at some point in the season. Also, I think the Oriole rotation is a sleeper. Mazzone has had a year with them so let's see if he is a genius after all. Big bust-out for Loewen! He will be a stud!

by butkussayers on Feb 26, 2007 8:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Boston

Schilling- Who knows how much longer he can last/ still solid though.
Beckett- Hasn't shown he can pitch in AL yet.
Dice-K- All hype as of right now
Papelbon- Yeah that shoulder will hold up....
Lester- Just had cancer. Wait and see approach
Wakefield- eh

Clement-eh
Timlin-solid
Hansen- all hype so far
Romero- see Hansen
Taverez- solid

This is heads and shoulders over Detroit's?

I admit, on paper it may look that way, but in actuality I beg to differ.

by Bondomania on Feb 27, 2007 12:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs