Elijah Dukes a National

I guess

not much.

by Galt on Dec 3, 2007 3:16 PM EST reply actions

Marion Barry?

"A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day." - Calvin

by RVachon on Dec 3, 2007 3:18 PM EST up reply actions

I was hoping Larry Craig

He seemed to be a good return

by dlpme77 on Dec 3, 2007 3:21 PM EST up reply actions

but seriously folks....

Hopefully, they are giving back an outfielder.

They still have Wily Mo, Kearns, and now with Milledge and Dukes. Not to mention both Dmitri and Nick Johnson vying for 1B.

by Galt on Dec 3, 2007 3:37 PM EST up reply actions

Hear me out...

What if the Nats, to make a big splash in their new park and truly contend in the East, trade Zimmerman and Dukes/Milledge for Santana?

by cooper7d7 on Dec 3, 2007 3:39 PM EST up reply actions

Don't see

the Twins going that route over what the Yankees offered.

Send your top 50-100 prospects to slurveone@yahoo.com!!!

by slurve on Dec 3, 2007 3:43 PM EST up reply actions

Need vs talent

If the Twins are looking to fill their needs - 3B, CF, bats, then Melky and Hughes doesn't really help them, but Zimmerman and Dukes does.

by cooper7d7 on Dec 3, 2007 3:49 PM EST up reply actions

if the Twins

actually wanted Dukes they could've gotten him thrown into their last trade with the Rays

by kaisertown on Dec 3, 2007 4:27 PM EST up reply actions

right

I meant one of Dukes, Milledge, Pena...

by cooper7d7 on Dec 3, 2007 5:07 PM EST up reply actions

having Santana isn't going to help them compete in '08, so they might as well wait until next offseason and make a push for Sabathia, Sheets, AJ Burnett, etc are free agents. Or even 2009 when guys like Harden, Peavy, and Lackey and others are available.

by Galt on Dec 3, 2007 3:51 PM EST up reply actions

Grand Opening

I was thinking they might want to make a splash with the opening of their new stadium this year, besides, Santana is better than all but C.C. and Peavy and they just might never hit the market.

by cooper7d7 on Dec 3, 2007 4:02 PM EST up reply actions

Uhm

Santana is better than both of those guys. Bar none.

God rested one day out of 7, Felix rests 4 out of 5.

by CrimsonLiederhosen on Dec 3, 2007 4:09 PM EST up reply actions

Peavy is close with Santana...

... but its a moot point because he's also in the process of signing a contract extension.

by grozzy on Dec 3, 2007 4:18 PM EST up reply actions

nah

Considering league context and park factor... that's not an argument I can buy.

God rested one day out of 7, Felix rests 4 out of 5.

by CrimsonLiederhosen on Dec 3, 2007 4:20 PM EST up reply actions

ARL

I was factoring in age, although Peavy might be as old as Santana, and other things, like trying to not be a homer...

by cooper7d7 on Dec 3, 2007 5:10 PM EST up reply actions

Philly fan here

and Santana is still hands down the best pitcher on the planet not named Jesus.

by mroak89 on Dec 3, 2007 7:35 PM EST up reply actions

Jesus can pitch

But he can't hit no curveball...

This is me being polite.

by CrimsonLiederhosen on Dec 3, 2007 7:50 PM EST up reply actions

Nah

I'll still take Santana over Jesus Colome ...

I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

by WayneCampbell05 on Dec 3, 2007 7:52 PM EST up reply actions

Milledge and Dukes in the same outfield

You better have a patrol of police beyond the warning track.

by Bravesin07 on Dec 3, 2007 3:25 PM EST reply actions

Milledge

Lastings can be a pain, but he's never done anything really wrong, just unprofessional. That pre-draft stuff could have happened to any high school kid. He's really been unfairly painted like a thug and I can't help but think race has something to do with it.

by MontrealMets on Dec 3, 2007 3:28 PM EST up reply actions

yeah

i think milledge is just cocky. they come from pretty different environments. dukes' dad is in jail for killing a guy. IIRC, milledge's dad is a cop.

by wily mo on Dec 3, 2007 4:13 PM EST up reply actions

Wow

What a wacky duo they'll make!
"My dad could arrest your dad!"

God rested one day out of 7, Felix rests 4 out of 5.

by CrimsonLiederhosen on Dec 3, 2007 4:15 PM EST up reply actions

Wow...

...way to not stereotype or be blatantly racist.

It's Business Time

by uga007 on Dec 3, 2007 4:49 PM EST up reply actions

C'mon...

that wasn't racism or stereotyping, let alone blatant. Those 2 have earned their reputations and that's all there is to it.

Send your top 50-100 prospects to slurveone@yahoo.com!!!

by slurve on Dec 3, 2007 4:52 PM EST up reply actions

It's really more ...

about the inane witticisms of Bravesin07 than it is about the state of race relations in this country. Adds nothing to the discussion whatsoever, gets people riled up, thinks he's being clever. It's tiresome. I'm all for that "ignore certain posters" filter we keep talking about developing.

by Flynn Blake on Dec 3, 2007 4:56 PM EST up reply actions

but YOU brought race in

They have a history of legal problems. They happen to be black. You made the connection. No one else.

by Galt on Dec 3, 2007 6:03 PM EST up reply actions

Hey Perry Mason

So what law did Milledge ever break? Not being PC is not a criminal offense yet. Dumas

I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

by WayneCampbell05 on Dec 3, 2007 6:21 PM EST up reply actions

he was arrested

for getting a BJ from a 13 year old when he was 17 or 18. Something like that at least. I dont know how that situation resolved itself.

I agree that Dukes is in a far different, worse, class but they have both had run ins with the law

by nms on Dec 3, 2007 6:34 PM EST up reply actions

Clarification

Getting arrested is not the same thing as breaking a law. No charges were ever filed so what law did he break again? Mahalo

Matt

I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

by WayneCampbell05 on Dec 3, 2007 6:42 PM EST up reply actions

dude whatever

i obviously wasn't saying he was convicted of anything.

I was just clarifying that he did infact have some legal run-ins.

by nms on Dec 3, 2007 6:47 PM EST up reply actions

Eh

Who hasn't? I once got a ride in a squad car when I was a kid too. Lastings has never, ever been charged with any crime whatsoever and yet there's a sizeable segment on this site and other websites that has him tried and convicted with no presumption of innocence. Would you like every mistake you made when you were 16-17 years old follow you like this for the rest of your life? I'm glad mine didn't. Mahalo

Matt

I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

by WayneCampbell05 on Dec 3, 2007 6:56 PM EST up reply actions

Not even arrested

Expelled from school, yes, but no charges were filed: http://www.sptimes.com/2002/05/18/Sports/School_expels_Milledg.shtml

"...and the only things I've found better than listening to Vin Scully are listening to Keith Jackson and uncut cocaine." (bleedjaxblue)

by drjayphd on Dec 3, 2007 6:49 PM EST up reply actions

By Your Logic

Every kid expelled from school is bad? Like a second grader for bringing in a plastic knife for lunch? Or students for demonstrating against the war? BTW, the link didn't work for me dude. Mahalo

Matt

I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

by WayneCampbell05 on Dec 3, 2007 6:59 PM EST up reply actions

Wait, what?

Link worked for me. Just have to scroll down a bit.

Also, by whose logic, mine or Bravesin07? I don't think everyone that's been expelled is bad, I was just clarifying that Milledge wasn't charged for that OMG HUGE TRANSGRESSION in his past. As far as I'm concerned, if the cops didn't think it was that severe, that's enough for me.

"...and the only things I've found better than listening to Vin Scully are listening to Keith Jackson and uncut cocaine." (bleedjaxblue)

by drjayphd on Dec 3, 2007 9:04 PM EST up reply actions

Ah

There it is. I thought it was an empty document at first. Well, I mistakenly assumed that you posted the article to rebut my previous post. Had I read the article I would have known otherwise. My apologies. Mahalo

Matt

I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

by WayneCampbell05 on Dec 4, 2007 12:29 AM EST up reply actions

so basically

bravesin07 and many others are once again demonstrating what all of the white media and in consequence baseball writers and fans have unfairly assumed and then remembered about lastings milledge...and since so many people would rather remain ignorant and assume that the cocky black kid is bad rather than learning what kind of person he really is, an entire city was able to bully an organization into trading him for peanuts

if you actually know about the guy, not just the "where theres smoke theres fire" crap you get on mike and the mad dog, you know hes never actually done anything of any significance...never any rape stuff, never threw a bat, never thereatened his girlfriend, no guns, no drugs, nothing...the worst thing he did was arrive late for ONE spring training game, use the word "hos" in a rap song and oh yes the worst infraction of them all, high five the home team fans after hitting his first big league HR that brought the mets into extras, can't forget that unforgivable sin...its pretty disgusting that so many people, including some in the media, still say "hes the next milton bradley" or associate him with actual troubled people like dukes after hes done so little...and if you think they're making that leap based on anything but race and more importantly his dreadlocks and his do rag then you're either hopelessly naive or ignorantly in denial

by Rob Castellano on Dec 3, 2007 7:04 PM EST up reply actions

+1

by smittybanton on Dec 3, 2007 7:26 PM EST up reply actions

+100

Its a shame he got a bad "rap" for being a cocky, high energy, head strong type. Im glad hes getting a fair shot in DC.

by tbach81 on Dec 4, 2007 9:44 AM EST up reply actions

My Guess

Clint Everts is Tampa bound :)

by colinadam on Dec 3, 2007 3:30 PM EST reply actions

felipe lopez

would be a good fit at 2B in that Tampa offense

by dlpme77 on Dec 3, 2007 3:32 PM EST up reply actions

Aki is 2B

From what I remember, Iwamura is moving to second and Longoria is going to start at 3rd. Although maybe the Rays aren't sure if Longoria is ready and are picking up Lopez as insurance.

Still, I guess it's someone else.

by Steve-o on Dec 3, 2007 3:42 PM EST up reply actions

I do too

but Felipe Lopez still would have made a nice fit. I am not in the group that believes Longoria is ready yet

by dlpme77 on Dec 3, 2007 3:44 PM EST up reply actions

Longoria

Has handled his fast track quite well. He is also a college player so he doesn't take as much seasoning as someone drafted out of high school.

The reality is that the Rays will play more of their kids and let them get some OJT. They need to put fans in the seats, and that means let the kids play and learn.

Longoria will be fine. He is a good kid with a ton of upside playing for a team that is pretty good offensively. Maddon does a pretty good job with the younger guys, and there is a nucleus of players who are in their mid-20's yet have been playing for a while. Much like what the Brewers did over the last couple seasons, the Rays are bringing in the kids to add some excitement. Pitching has made strides...as much as I hated the Young deal, having a guy like Garza in the middle of that rotation and with Hammel, Sonnestine and maybe even Jackson in the mix suddenly makes the pitching staff better. Throw Percival into the mix, whether as a setup guy or closer, and there is some relevance to the owners promise of making a stand in 2008, which they have been saying since they took over from Vince Naomoli

by jammerjoe on Dec 3, 2007 5:31 PM EST up reply actions

I have no knocks against Longoria long term

but I feel he is being a tad rushed. Look at what happened to Alex Gordon his first year, or earlier in Texas with Teix and Blalock.

I'd give him another half a year in the minors, bring him up in late July when the Rays are 15 games behind the playoff leaders and let himlearn that way

by dlpme77 on Dec 3, 2007 5:34 PM EST up reply actions

Actually

DC is so dangerous, they could trend the crime rate downward...

God rested one day out of 7, Felix rests 4 out of 5.

by CrimsonLiederhosen on Dec 3, 2007 3:30 PM EST reply actions

DC violent crime rates...

...are only ~5% higher than Boston's.

by dkdc on Dec 3, 2007 4:07 PM EST up reply actions

in a city with 5 million people

5% is alot

by Trenchtown on Dec 3, 2007 5:20 PM EST up reply actions

That's not what I'm saying...

In 2005, Washington had 7,716 violent crimes reported, and Boston had 7,479 reported.

So I'm saying DC had 5% more violent crimes when you normalize for population, not that 5% more of the population was victimized.

Also, I'm only talking about the city proper, which is about ~550K people for both cities.

by dkdc on Dec 3, 2007 6:04 PM EST up reply actions

Other possibilities

Would Casto or Desmond be too much to give up for Dukes?

by HectorLuna on Dec 3, 2007 3:36 PM EST reply actions

Heart of the lineup

Zimmerman, Nick Johnson(?), Pena, Dukes, Milledge...

by cooper7d7 on Dec 3, 2007 3:38 PM EST reply actions

they gave up a minor leaguer

by Bravesin07 on Dec 3, 2007 3:41 PM EST reply actions

Playing Time

But where do they all play?

Zimmerman - 3B
Pena - RF
Kearns - LF
Milledge - CF
Dukes - ???
Young - 1B
Nick Johnson - DL?

by Diggity Dino on Dec 3, 2007 3:44 PM EST reply actions

dukes has also spent time at 1B

ORGANIZATIONAL DEPTH REPORTS (link fixed)
variables don't; constants aren't

by overlord on Dec 3, 2007 3:53 PM EST up reply actions

Not well

He played 3 games in the AFL there and that's it. He did so poorly defensively in those 3 games that the Rays gave up on the Dukes to 1B experiment entirely.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Dec 3, 2007 3:55 PM EST up reply actions

i believe he was pulled from the AFL because of

a shoulder issue, not poor defense.

and, at any rate, poor defense wouldn't account for pulling him out because it's a winter league with little point other than development.

ORGANIZATIONAL DEPTH REPORTS (link fixed)
variables don't; constants aren't

by overlord on Dec 3, 2007 4:07 PM EST up reply actions

He was switched off 1B

long before he was pulled from the AFL. And the Rays didn't even try him at 1B after that. It's really a stretch to say Dukes is a 1B option at this point.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Dec 3, 2007 4:09 PM EST up reply actions

I wonder

If Nick Johnson is on the block now. Maybe to SF in some sort of Nick Lowry type deal?

by dlpme77 on Dec 3, 2007 3:57 PM EST up reply actions

Coming soon to a FOX station near you....

COPS: Washington Nationals Edition

by joemorgansaysdeadredtoomuch on Dec 3, 2007 3:56 PM EST reply actions

PTBL

It's a minor leaguer who's not on the 40 man. It'll be announced later today as soon as the player involved has been notified. That's the delay in the announcement.

by Tyler on Dec 3, 2007 4:09 PM EST reply actions

I guess it's fair to say

Tampa doesn't think Dukes will outperform Delmon or that the outburst last week was meaningless to the Rays brass?

Send your top 50-100 prospects to slurveone@yahoo.com!!!

by slurve on Dec 3, 2007 4:53 PM EST up reply actions

Still think he will

outperform Delmon this season. It'll just be for the Nationals.

by Tyler on Dec 3, 2007 4:59 PM EST up reply actions

I doubt

Last weeks outburst had an effect on the trade, if any. Bowden and the Rays had been discussing a deal for Dukes since last season.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Dec 3, 2007 5:06 PM EST up reply actions

Rotoworld

Rotoworld reports that the prospect is Glen Gibson

by NMUWildcat027 on Dec 3, 2007 5:18 PM EST reply actions

PTBNL

Another young arm. Interesting. Hard to assess since he is such fresh meat, but he certainly didn't embarass himself in the short season. K/BB ratio almost 4-1, .223 BAA, K's one per inning.

Very green, but probably a nice kid, especially compared to Dukes

by jammerjoe on Dec 3, 2007 5:37 PM EST up reply actions

lineage

He has a good pedigree, at minimum. From everything I've read, he's smart and projectable, and barring injury, he could turn into some sort of serviceable big leaguer, at minimum. Still, could you imagine this sort of return at the start of the seasoN?

by GuyinNY on Dec 3, 2007 5:46 PM EST up reply actions

who does Dukes hurt the most?

Wily Mo? Milledge? Kearns?

Suppose Nick Johnson actually shows up healthy? Where does Da Meathook play? No DH allowed. Nats are making some progress here.

Mulder: Babe Ruth was an alien? Arthur Dales: sure; all the great ones were aliens.

by dew on Dec 3, 2007 7:15 PM EST reply actions

Most Likely

Kearns, but any of the above can and will get hurt and miss time. Mahalo

Matt

I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

by WayneCampbell05 on Dec 3, 2007 7:19 PM EST up reply actions

Who does Dukes hurt most?

His kids by failing to pay child support.

by joemorgansaysdeadredtoomuch on Dec 3, 2007 7:27 PM EST up reply actions

+1

Not to mention having an authority figure like him to have to look up to.

I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

by WayneCampbell05 on Dec 3, 2007 7:33 PM EST up reply actions

Continuing the cycle

At least he hasn't landed himself in jail like his old man.

This is me being polite.

by CrimsonLiederhosen on Dec 3, 2007 7:51 PM EST up reply actions

i was just going to say

down the line, if the kids turn out like him, what will everybody say about them then? elijah was the kid once.

i don't get how on the one hand people can make so much of a parent's responsibility towards their children - which obviously is massively important - but then at the same time act like it's all down to the personal responsibility of the current generation of parents. where do you think they came from then?

obviously much of dukes' behavior is intolerable, but it's the situation he came from that makes me angry.

by wily mo on Dec 3, 2007 8:11 PM EST up reply actions