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John On Hiatus

Lately, I have been spending over half my work days policing this site, dealing with trolls and hateful behavior. I am now, thanks in large part to the bullshit posts by a few people, seriously behind on the book, and at this point we will be hard pressed to get it to the printer in time.  

I've also had to explain my rating system, again, despite it being available in this site's history, plus in every book I've written. Once again, the grading system has been in place for 13 years is my own design, based on scouting, stats and my own intuition.   It is not perfect, but no system is, and I make no apologies for it. It does what it is supposed to do: put a marker down about what general category the player falls into. Sometimes I think people don't actually read what the ratings mean, and just get pissed off because their favorite guy ranks one notch behind some hated prospect from a rival organization.

I am going to take a couple days off posting prospect lists so I can catch back up. The lists will return shortly, but I have to get caught up on the book. In the meantime, Jeri will be handling the site and I will send her some tidbits to post occasionally. I will NOT be looking at the posts.  Jeri and the other moderators will be checking in and adding/deleting as necessary.  

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Best wishes this Holiday season...
I hope this works for all of your family...

I'm going to bed....

by joeficarra on Dec 17, 2007 11:23 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Thanks!
Dear John,

I've been a big fan of yours for several years now. I always enjoy reading through your comments on players which combines an enjoyable blend of statistics, analysis and gut instincts. I want to take some time and show some appreciation for helping educate me about baseball prospects. It must be hard to make this site work and write up the next eddition of baseball prospectus at the same time. Thanks for providing us with many enjoyable entries and insight. Looking forward to purchasing the next eddition.

Thanks & wishing you early seasonal tidings,

Brandon

by bk11 on Dec 17, 2007 11:26 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Don't
Let a small vocal minority get you down John. The vast majority of everyone here is thankful for the good work you do.

by spepin on Dec 17, 2007 11:27 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Yeah
I bet 99% of the community appreciates the time John takes and the work he does here but about 10% of the community get carried away with their own opinions when the discussions start.  It's funny that some of the "longest tenured" or even "most respectable" posters are the ones who cause such a fuss.

I'm looking forward to the book though.  Will by my first issue and should be preordered if my family actually looked at my gift ideas.  Will be interesting to have different perspectives.

by jfish26101 on Dec 17, 2007 11:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Everyone
wants to be an expert, and forums like these provide courage to many because it seems somewhat anonymous.

Sickels is a legend in fantasy baseball circles, and many thousands of us keep his books around for years as reference bibles.  

There are of course also those who must trash others' body of work. They typically are the kind who have low self esteem and use these forums to build themselves up, or so they think, by professing their knowledge.

Those people are sad, as the true end result is they show what morons they are.

Director of Marketing www.fantasyauctioneer.com

by jammerjoe on Dec 21, 2007 2:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Trolls and Haters...
are just terrorists on a smaller scale.  I am pretty upset that things are so bad that John has had to a) waste valuable analysis/writing time on cleaning up the crap, and b) has to write a post like this.  

On my "gratitude" list, I think I'll add the fact that I have no comprehension of the warped mindset that leads one to spend the time/energy to be a troll on a wonderful free site such as this one.  Small consolation, though. sigh

Have a Happy Holiday season, John.  Know that some of us really appreciate the gift you give us by keeping this site great.

by BobbyMac on Dec 17, 2007 11:59 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

re: free
Maybe the answer to all this is that this site shouldn't be free. Maybe a low fee like $10 would be enough to discourage creation of sock puppets. And honestly, I wouldn't shed a tear for any of the longtime members who were outraged they had to pay $10. If you don't think the site's content is worth that much you're in da NILE.

by McLovin on Dec 18, 2007 12:22 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

+1
Totally agree.  

by GregJP on Dec 18, 2007 12:25 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Payment
If John wants the traffic of this site to be reduced by, say, 90% then yeah, charge a fee.  I've posted a couple times on the board, but mainly I just read about the prospects.  This is a good site for that, even though virtually all of the content is reader based.

But since so little of the content comes from the "expert", I can (and have) found many other sites which have roughly the same discussions and debates, and I can easily go there if some sort of fee is instituted.

I check this site several times a day and while I don't read even close to all the diaries and stories, I do read a fair bit.  And I have to say that I honestly haven't even noticed the troll/hater problem other than all the diaries and stories that are dedicated to them.  I would guess (and I could be wrong) that the trolls only bother a relatively tiny section of the advertisement-clicking population here.  The hardcore posters (who, granted, make this site what it is).

I don't know a whole lot about the economics of free websites.  I don't know how much traffic is worth, I don't know how much a banner click is worth (and I do my due diligence and click banners when I come here), and I don't know how much traffic is worth losing by instituting some sort of fee.

But my strong opinion/guess is that visitors like me are the vast majority of the traffic to this site, and we probably wouldn't pay for access to it.  

by whonichol on Dec 18, 2007 12:52 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Good Points
Some good points.  Hopefully the "expert" would actually contribute if it was a pay site.

I belong to some pay sites, and I just find that it eliminates 95% of the bickering and stuff.

Still, this is the place to be if you want to get a good laugh from time to time.

by GregJP on Dec 18, 2007 1:05 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re:
There are different ways to implement a pay structure. You could make it such that you can read the content without being a member but need to pay the $10 registration fee to post.

You could also have the $10 membership fee come with a $10 discount to buy John's book. So for the serious readers of the site there really is no net affect to their pocketbook. But for Joba, he'd have paid $320 to earn a bunch of coupons he won't redeem.

I have no idea how much site traffic alone generates revenue. I have always thought the site was more of an advertisement to buy John's newsletter and book. And if that is the real goal, I think there are ways you could structure the pay service that in minimizes the affect on the regular readers but makes it too financially burdensome for people to have sockpuppets.

by McLovin on Dec 18, 2007 1:30 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

FWIW
I've been coming to this site for over 3 years and have never clicked on an ad once. Maybe that's why I am underestimating the ad revenue angle. I just don't see what compels people to click on these ads. So in turn can't imagine why companies would pay much to advertise on a site with a community of less than 5000 registered users. Plus, the Sportsblog network is certainly taking a big cut of the ad revenue.

As for growing a 'readership' - I've already outlined that viewing content wouldn't have to be limited to subscribers.

by McLovin on Dec 18, 2007 1:55 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Completely Agree
I honestly have very little idea what this whole "troll" issue is.  I don't read it and don't care.  There is specific content on this site that I love to read and the rest is garbage.

Nothing against John, almost all sites about any topic are that way.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by HuskerBob on Dec 18, 2007 1:46 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure Blez would be happy with that
You know, the guy who actually owns the site.
Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Dec 18, 2007 3:24 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Rather
the network.

Wish I could edit my own posts lol.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Dec 18, 2007 3:25 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Have a Happy Holidays, John (and Family)
I rarely ever post, but I often come here to read the info you have on this site.

For a guy like me with a very limited knowledge of the minor league specs, I appreciate all that you do for this site.

I bought your book last year after someone referred me to this site, and I'll be buying one again this year.

Don't let the trolls get you down.  Unfortunately in every walk of life, there are assholes.  And in an internet world with no real punishment, the assholes are aplenty.

Let your mods do their jobs, and stick to what's worked for you since the day you started this.

Have yourself a Happy Holidays.

My Christmas will be on that first week in February.

Bonderman, Verlander, Willis, Porcello, OH MY!

by sportznut3081 on Dec 18, 2007 12:08 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Put some...
...soul in your solstice, John!  For all you do, best holiday wishes to you and yours.

by FlipYrWhig on Dec 18, 2007 1:24 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Perhaps...
Perhaps if you didn't give out ridiculous grades to prospects in organizations you favored more the issue wouldn't come up in the first place?

"Jon Lester -  A+++++++! Wow! Did you see that World Series game?"

"Phil Hughes - Eh, D-. Maybe will be a decent piece for the Pirates as a swing man"

by deltabourne on Dec 18, 2007 2:02 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Uhm, what?
Even if he was favoring organizations, I'm fairly certain he wouldn't be puffing up the Red Sox and disparaging the Yanks... just sayin'.
"...and the only things I've found better than listening to Vin Scully are listening to Keith Jackson and uncut cocaine." (bleedjaxblue)

by drjayphd on Dec 18, 2007 2:22 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Troll
thy name is deltabourne...

by AucklandGM on Dec 18, 2007 3:07 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

+1
There's really no reason for these types of posts.  John has said, ad nauseum, that his rating is subjective, but he rarely has 2 similar prospects more than a full letter different.

This is a fun, subjective site.  Treat it like that and you can have a good time.

by lenred on Dec 18, 2007 11:04 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yanks last
Maybe you should start doing the Yankees Prospect list last so you can post it and then go away for a few days and not have to deal with it.  That got completely ridiculous, Yankee fans being ignorant, no that can't be!!  Not all of them of course but by far the most complaining on grades came from the yankee fans.  

There was alot of talk on Lowrie being a grade high in the Boston discussion, all the talk was mainly about only his grade and was a pretty positive discussion.  'trying' to read through the Yankee thread and seeing everyone whine how everyone is underrated and thinking that their system has like 10 A prospects in it is ridiculous.  You guys need to get a clue!  

John does good work, this is a great site, I love reading through all the intelligent positions that usually appear in the discussions.  But unfortunately on the rare occasion things like this happen, and ruin what is supposed to be a place for intelligent discussion.  Its fine if you don't agree, but to attack John and complain about him being biased against your team is pathetic.  If you can't intelligently discuss your position do everybody a favor and go express your idiocy on one of your fanboy sites.

by GoldenSpikes24 on Dec 18, 2007 2:36 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Maybe...
...it was putting the Sox and Yankees grade releases too close together. Yankees fan trolls were POd by the Lowrie grade... and then when Austin Jackson and Alan Horne were lower than they thought a few days later they just lost it and went nuclear.

It appears to me like both the Yankees AND Sox got some pretty favorable grading... though they both do have good systems right now.

by alskor on Dec 18, 2007 3:12 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Very true
A lot of Yankee and Red Sox fans have the mental capacity of a 7 yr old, so publishing their lists back-to-back was just begging for infighting amongst the not so mature.

by guru4u on Dec 18, 2007 10:44 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

A Sad Commentary
This makes a lot of sense.  Though it's a sad commentary on some people that posting the Red Sox' and then the Yankees' system grades too close together makes them act like grade schoolers.

by NBarnes on Dec 18, 2007 12:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

good idea
It shouldn't have to come to that, but it is what it is.  At the very least, the Sox and Yanks have to be more separated. And, for the record, I do think the site is already showing signs of great improvement since the moderation has begun and the one dude has been run off (mostly).  Frankly, I had this place tuned out for quite a while over him (at least the comments).

Doubt it's an option, but I would support a pay site, for the record.

Can't wait for the A's top 20.

by bootsy on Dec 18, 2007 4:23 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

My question is...
why are Yankee fans up in arms if they disagree with John's ratings?

Just because John gave a prospect a B- at the beginning of a season it does not mean that the prospect will not have an A season or even an A career if that is their potential. This is just one man's opinion of a prospect (though it is a very educated opinion).

If you think the prospects are better than John thinks they are then that is your opinion. You shouldn't try to force your opinion on him.

by Zabat on Dec 18, 2007 4:27 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

because Jed "Lowerie"
got an A-... apparently...

I dont know... mental illness? God forbid some guy on a website rates a Sox player too high for their tastes and a couple Yankee players slightly low in their opinion! That is IT! There's no justice in this world! MUST... DESTROY... WEBSITE... AND... RUIN... INTELLIGENT... DISCUSSION... JOBA... IS... A+++++... ARGHHH...

I, personally, considered slashing my wrists when Michael Bowden got only a B... but after some therapy Im in a good place with that...

by alskor on Dec 18, 2007 2:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yankee fans
I really cannot believe someone has the time to come on this site and complain about a grade John gave some Yankee prospect. If you Yankee fans think your so excellent at grading prospects, Why dont you do it? Go open up a site with your worlds of experience and see if any idiot would listen to you on a website.
For the record I truly hate the Yankees. In fact I hate all the idiots I have to see with Yankee symbols ON THERE CAR!!! Dude you dont work for them, get a life.
But as a HUGE baseball fan, I love some of there prospects. I personally think Joba, Hughes and Horne will be excellent players. I also think that Kennedy and Jackson are over rated. Especially Kennedy. In NYC here they call up the FAN and act like Kennedy is as good as Hughes. Which anyone who even knows baseball will know isnt true. Kennedy does not have near the ceiling Hughes has. Kennedy has that "feel for pitching" thing going. But he realistically is no more than a 4th SP type.
I would love to see the hate from Yankee trolls this generates. But please if you do respond and want to rip this post. I would like you to put it on the record if you think Kennedy is as good as Hughes. We need it in writing so we can laugh at you in 4 years.
In closing. John does an excellent job here. I like his site. I would pay a $10 fee for the year. I also go to other sites. And they usually agree with John on alot of guys. So he must know what he is doing. In fact I have taken Johns advice on some guys and it paid off tremendously. (Lincecum for one, Thanks John)
And also, if John has any bias, he clearly is a Nippon Ham Fighters fan!!!

by Maxima231 on Dec 18, 2007 7:25 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

You can hate the Yankees
all you want, but Austin Jackson is not overrated.

He is a very special talent.

by Roo on Dec 18, 2007 9:20 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Roo, we agree to disagree on Jackson
But my hating the Yankees has NOTHING to do with my thinking on Jackson. Hence why I love the Joba, Horne and Hughes group. I am objective.
I just need to see more from Jackson. He made strides in controlling his enormous strikeout totals. Let me see him do it at AA then I will reassess my opinion. Right now. I would like to see more than half a season repeating the sally league (Where is #s were the same as the year before) and half a year in the FSL. Thats all I am saying.

by Maxima231 on Dec 18, 2007 10:15 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree on his numbers
but Ive known him since he was a teenager and seen him play, he just has "it".

I see him catch alot of flak for being a "toolsy" guy who was drafted so late, (8th round), but anyone who knows prospects/drafts (which Im sure you do, knows that the only thing that keep him from being a first rounder was signability.

Even NY didnt think they had a 50/50 chance at signing him.

by Roo on Dec 18, 2007 10:24 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry for the OT there
but like I was saying, I agree with you on his numbers part, but as someone who evaluates talent for a living, this guy is something else.

by Roo on Dec 18, 2007 10:25 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Thats cool
I hope your right about him. I hold no ill will towards Jackson. I have only seen him play one time in person. If he has a good year in AA ball. I will begin to believe. I like his skill set, and "tools". I want to see strike zone improvement and a modest increase in his extra base hits. If he does that, I will begin to believe the hype.

by Maxima231 on Dec 18, 2007 5:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Just be careful
with your emotional attachment to a prospect.  

I played against a guy in high school who was an amazing hitter as a sophomore (I was a senior), then two years later I saw him teaching himself how to switch hit so he could be more valuable as a prospect.  When he got drafted in the second round by Kansas City I thought, "wow, this kid might actually be as good as I thought." Since then he's been a total bust, aside from a promising stint in SS ball after the draft.

I'm not claiming to know anything about evaluating talent, I haven't been at it long enough to do so. But I am fully aware of hyping players just because you're attached to them in some way, shape or form. Apparently this causes a lot of problems for people around here.

by ajake57 on Dec 19, 2007 11:57 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I thought someone might find my Nippon Ham Fighter
joke funny. But I guess not. And one guy actually wrote what is obvious to those of us who read all of what John writes. He likes the Twins and lives near KC. Sheesh.

by Maxima231 on Dec 18, 2007 5:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

John's biases are well known
to anyone who chooses to learn something... heck John has admitted his team biases

he's a fan of the Twins (hence why he uses them for his shadow draft every year), and KC is close by as well... John does a decent job adjusting but every now and then a Twin gets a bit overrated

For anyone to think he has a Yankee or Red Sox bias is pretty funny....

by SLK on Dec 18, 2007 8:05 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

John
I know your pissed and behind, but couldnt you have waited until after you posted the Dodgers list? I really wanted to see it.

Just pokin at ya, but get back soon.

by Roo on Dec 18, 2007 9:22 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Thoughts
First of all, I think that grading prospects is extremely difficult to do, and John gives his own unique spin on things, which is great. But, he does open himself up to criticism when he grades on a team-by-team basis and then posts them immediately. I'm not sure how he calculates his grades, but it's probably not some magic scientific formula because there is so much subjectivity when it comes to evaluating prospects. Therefore, he may assign different grades to players he thinks are equal because he's in a different mood on a different day.

Really, the best way to do the grading is to grade everyone up front and then post the lists one-by-one. I very much enjoy the fact that he posts grades and allows our community to debate them and actually change his stance on some of them, but if he is feeling too much criticism, it's really inherent in the process that he has implemented on this site.

John, if I have offended you, I do apologize. I try to be as fair as I possibly can when it comes to all organizations, although obviously there are inherent biases with every fan base. I look forward to reading the book, as I always do.

by jc3 on Dec 18, 2007 10:36 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

John
(Or Jeri, since John won't be reading this)

Just wanted to say thanks, and sorry the trolls are driving you to distraction (I mod a debates board on another forum, so I know how that can be).  As one of the (no doubt numerous) people on here who doesn't buy the book (I'm not enough of a prospect hound to think I'd actually read it), I found the grade explanations helpful, since I've been wondering what exactly they meant.  But I haven't asked for the past few years, since: a) the basic meaning was obvious and b) you had enough on your plate.

Anyway, thanks for all the work on the site, its been an enourmous fantasy baseball help (and general baseball too).

by Locke000 on Dec 18, 2007 11:46 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Free Market of Ideas
A bulletin board is the ultimate free market of ideas.

You get the good with the bad.

The occasional troll gets bashed by the crowd.

Nothing to get too upset about one way or another.  The posts by John have to be held up to his standards but not the forum postings by others.  Even the NYT has bizarre posts.

The user experience is not really impacted by silly posts.

Disagreeing with your ratings is part of the fun.  Let's all lighten up here a bit.

Matthew Cohen If you can't measure it, it doesn't matter.

by matcohen on Dec 18, 2007 12:27 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Disagreeing is one thing.
I think he can live with that but we all know (at least those with their eyes open) can see it often goes beyond that.  You can politely disagree, post your thoughts/feelings and move on agreeing to disagree but that rarely ever happens here.  It just snowballs out of control.  I understand some fans come here who think every player they have is the next great thing but even if you feel that way you have to be respectful.  

You are right in that the message board is meant for discussion and trading of opinions but that doesn't mean it's meant for insults, back handed comments and just hateful behavior.  "It takes 2 to Tango" as they say so the community members who feel it's their job to "bash down the trolls" are as guilty as the trolls themselves.  Everyone needs to remember it isn't their place to try and run off trolls.  That is the job of John, his wife and the mods he placed in charge.  You shouldn't let yourself get down to their level.

by jfish26101 on Dec 18, 2007 12:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

In general that's true
But people coming on and calling him a "moron loser" is well across the line, wouldn't you say?

Hell, if that really is your (general, not YOU) opinion, why bother reading the site in the first place?

by Locke000 on Dec 18, 2007 1:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Moron Loser Comments
Yeah - it is over the line but does he really care what some pimply-faced barely literate high schooler says about him?

Plenty of prominent people get savaged all day long on the Internet.

People read comments and make their own decisions.

Live and let live.

Matthew Cohen If you can't measure it, it doesn't matter.

by matcohen on Dec 18, 2007 6:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

:D
People die every day but should we just accept that is the way it is?  

I think that kind of logic is a little misplaced in that you feel the users of this site should be allowed to say anything they wish to John or more importantly about him.  It's his site, he makes the rules that we have to follow.  Ignoring the problem doesn't get you anywhere no matter what issue you are discussing in my opinion.  :(  You of course are welcome to your opinions but only John's really matter in this situation.

by jfish26101 on Dec 18, 2007 6:56 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

John's Rights
I agree that it is John's right to do whatever he wants with the site, subject to the terms of use.

My point is that if it were me, I wouldn't waste my time on these people.

I don't think that some nitwit saying that he is an idiot affects his reputation.

This is the internet.  People say stupid things all day long.  

If you like what John writes (which I do) then you like it - some half-brain writing that he is a moron changes nothing.

Matthew Cohen If you can't measure it, it doesn't matter.

by matcohen on Dec 18, 2007 7:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

An idea that may help
John, et. all

Perhaps if you created a Legend that explained your rating scale and ran it in the left column under the advertising, readers could refer to it at any time.

Just a thought.  Thank you for all you do.

by WayOutInLF14 on Dec 18, 2007 1:49 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Maxima231
Dear Mr./Ms Maxima,

   You make some good points in your original post (Yankee fans), but I'll bet your old English grammar teacher is spinning in his/her grave.  Please, please, I'm begging you, check out the correct usage of the words "there," and "their" before submitting any more posts.  Also you might want to look into the use of the apostrophe (') in contractions like "don't," and possessives such as "John's."  

   And I'm sorry if the foregoing would be considered a troll post, but incorrect grammar, word usage, and spelling are some of my pet peeves.  It bugs me that obviously intelligent people either have forgotten all the rules of grammar, spelling, and usage, or are just to lazy to use them.

by dwill66 on Dec 18, 2007 1:58 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

too
"It bugs me that obviously intelligent people either have forgotten all the rules of grammar, spelling, and usage, or are just TOO lazy to use them."

all in good fun.  :)  

Sorry for any and all trouble that has been on the board and brought you grief, Mr. Sickels.  I've long  frequented this board, and consider it a vital resource for any serious fan's prospecting needs.  Thank you, and have a happy hiliday.  

by GuyinNY on Dec 18, 2007 3:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I confess, I am to lazy to use them.
And honestly, I dont really type well. I probably had lots of spelling mistakes in "their" too. I use the two finger method. It can be surprisingly effective, but allows for an obscene amount of mistakes.

by Maxima231 on Dec 18, 2007 5:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

ummm....
"I use the two finger method. It can be surprisingly effective, but allows for an obscene amount of mistakes."

Then, pretty much by definition, it would NOT be effective.

by sabernar on Dec 19, 2007 9:41 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I meant effective in the speed of typing
but thanks for pointing that out. You must have a Yankee logo on your car somewhere.

by Maxima231 on Dec 19, 2007 3:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Another holiday thank you
I come here a couple times a day, and always enjoy John's posts. I learn a lot from the community as well, nearly all of whom know much more about these players than I do. It's a great time to be a baseball fan, when there's so much out there on the internet.

Thanks to John and Jeri for keeping the site going, and best wishes for a happy holiday season to everyone.

by alexwithclass on Dec 18, 2007 2:23 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

i'm sick of trolls
I kinda acted like one at first because I was hyping up Gomez too much but i've backed off and I don't even post much anymore because of my laboratory job which I have to be at work by 6 AM.  It's too bad a few bad apples have to ruin such a good place to talk about prospects.  

by Bravesin07 on Dec 18, 2007 3:56 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Dude
You were never a troll.  Just very firm in your beliefs.
"A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day." - Calvin

by RVachon on Dec 18, 2007 6:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

+2
Motion passed.
"...and the only things I've found better than listening to Vin Scully are listening to Keith Jackson and uncut cocaine." (bleedjaxblue)

by drjayphd on Dec 18, 2007 7:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Just add fire
Hack 'em to pieces and toss the Trolls on the Yule Log

Have a safe (non icy) Holiday Season.

Just like Alcohol know when to say when

Jimuhendori sensei at Rigurefirudo

by gmsnctry on Dec 18, 2007 7:26 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

good luck
and happy holidays!
--http://yankeesfuture.wordpress.com Bobby Mcnally (alias)

by bobbymcnally on Dec 18, 2007 8:13 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Thanks....
That is all.
There are no prospects on other teams, only players that Jack Zduriencik didn't want.

by Einsteinhood on Dec 18, 2007 8:35 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

But!!!!!!! the troll drama!!
is becoming a big part of the charm of the site.  Both the overly-juvenile attacks and overly-earnest responses. It's becoming rhythmical, like the changing of the seasons (at least back in the day). Or, it's like a time machine back to junior high and the battles between the dumbest bullies in the class and the most socially awkward do-gooders.

The lack of nuance on both ends is becoming my oasis from my overly jaded, quasi-sophisticated surroundings.  

Come for the prospect analysis, stay for the overreactions!

by gogotabata on Dec 18, 2007 9:11 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Thank you, John
I am the proud owner of every Minor League Scouting Notebook and Baseball Prospect Book since John began writing them in 1996. In addition to the occasional visit to old ones and the frequent reference to the most current one, it is an ongoing pleasure for me to visit Minorleagueball.com and check out what you have to say about the current prospects, and the thoughtful responses and reflections of the many hundred respectful members of the visitorship.

To the others...  (silence)

John and Jeri and the rest of the Sickels family, may you have a wonderful Christmas season and the best year yet in 2008.

by JRTwins on Dec 18, 2007 11:33 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

An obvious solution to the grading questions
Yes, its in the history, but since a lot of people don't check it, or are too stupid to do so, maybe you should keep it on the main page?

A lot of other blogs on SBNation use the Left Sidebar for thing, such as links to interviews, or even the current roster.

So why not use the Left Sidebar for grading explainations?

by Zonis on Dec 19, 2007 12:25 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

A menu that links to all the prospect grades
might be nice too.

There's a few things that could be done to make the sight a little bit easier to navigate.

by alskor on Dec 19, 2007 12:37 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

As for Trolls
I've been a mod and an admin on several boards in my net lifetime, and Trolls are a fact of life. The more you complain about them, the more they win. The simple fact that all of you are talking about them, calling them out, and so on means they are succeding and will continue to do it.

The most effective way to deal with Trolls is to simply ban/delete them on sight. Period. No discussion on them, no chance for them to respond. Just Ban and/or Delete, and it will be over. Sooner of later, they become bored of the lack of drama, and leave for their next target. Every time.

by Zonis on Dec 19, 2007 12:27 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Troll Management 101
Exactly.  Ban them.

Trolls are out for one thing -- attention.  If people take the bait, the troll wins.

On my site and blog, I never respond to the trolls.  Most of them are bored 12 year olds waiting for puberty to kick in.  They attack successful people like John, because if they can get John to respond then they think they've lowered him to their level and that makes John as big a loser as they are.  So if you don't respond, it drives them nuts.  In fact, they usually start complaining that you won't respond!  Which only further proves you've got into their head.

I've been running boards since the mid-1980s.  People will scream "censorship!"  Well, so what.  Looking at Dictionary.com, one definition of "censor" is: "any person who supervises the manners or morality of others."  If a person can't control his own manners and lacks any sense of morality, that's their problem, not ours.  Come back when you've learned how to not behave like an animal.

Then you get the people who skipped high school civics class and think they have some sort of constitutional right to say whatever they want on a bulletin board.  Well, they don't.  Free speech doesn't extend to a privately owned web site.

Over the years, there have been rare occasions where I'd had to take drastic action against a troll.  One effective deterrent is to force a person to sign up for a board with a real e-mail address.  It's not perfect, but it's a basic key to lock out someone.  You can always report them to their hosting service, which again isn't perfect but it's worked before.  Generally speaking, if you make it clear such behavior isn't tolerated, generally a troll will move on.  If troll posts are allowed to remain, it sets a precedent and attracts more trolls the way horse droppings attract flies.

Some sites are afraid to ban anyone, thinking they'll lose customers, but it can have the opposite effect -- you drive away the intelligent customers (those are usually the people with money) and all you're left with are the penniless pre-pubescents.

In the end, though, it's John's site and it's up to him to decide what kind of place he wants to run.  You can never please everyone, though, and you'll go crazy if you try.  So you decide what kind of customer you want to attract and try to keep them happy.  The rest, let them walk.

by FutureAngels on Dec 23, 2007 11:38 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Aargh!
Why did the troll armageddon have to happen right before the Dodgers were to be highlighted?

I'm sure the idea has been brought up, but why haven't a few moderators been put into place to help curb the ridiculousness?  That way John would only have to worry about the really ugly stuff instead of all the menial crap.

Will Kershaw be an A or an A-?  The suspense is killing me!

by overkill94 on Dec 19, 2007 2:10 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Kershaw's grade
Along with an insight into John's grading process, can be found starting about 6:16 into this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huhh2jw5UUg

Kershaw, specifically, is at about 7:14.  ;)

"...and the only things I've found better than listening to Vin Scully are listening to Keith Jackson and uncut cocaine." (bleedjaxblue)

by drjayphd on Dec 19, 2007 3:09 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

John is WAY off base
Why is it so hard to ignore the trolls?  What is a troll anyway - someone who disagrees with another?  Give me a break.  I disagree with John a lot because I don't think he offers anything more than any other blogger.  He's a terrific writer, yes.  But I don't consider him an astute minor league guru unlike the guys at BA or Deric McKamey.  He admittedly doesn't go to many games.  His rankings are essentially BA's rankings with his own personal "intuition" thrown in to mix it up a bit.  Given that most scouting reports come from BA, John doesn't offer much in the way of analysis.  

And why is it that John can post cheesecake posts and political posts, yet discourages that stuff from others.  I know, I know - it's his site and he can do what he wants.  But I find it a tad hypocritical.

Go back to your history lessons, Professor Sickels.  Your little diatribte smells of bitterness and is quite childish.

by Spooneybarger on Dec 19, 2007 7:30 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Trolls
Are basically people who personally insult other people just for inflammatory purposes (for example, your post just now in which for some reason you insult John without need, could be considered "trollish")

They don't disagree, they inflame and insult and pop up on various user names (sock puppets) and use these different accounts to make a person feel attacked from all sides... just generally contributing a negative attitude and spin to diaries and the site as a whole.

Furthermore, it's entirely reasonable to disagree with John, but to say that his reports are just someone else's w/ a little "tuition" thrown in is... i mean, it's rude and it's false. He uses different methodology from what I've seen, and regardless, top prospects are going to have similar grades everywhere -- it's really the lower down "C+" types where prospecting talent comes out, and John's "intuition" (I call it "expertise") has proven him right so many times that I tend to trust his ratings (he who does this for a living and has years of experience and uses cutting edge stats as well as scouting reports) more than I trust my own first glance.

by mroak89 on Dec 19, 2007 7:44 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

+1
I tend to be agreement here.  Hope I don't get banned for this, but this seems to be just a vehicle to sell books.  Nothing qwrong with that, he's entitled, but why do all want to make JS such a saint?
Daddyboy

by Daddyboy on Dec 19, 2007 10:06 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes!
We want to make him a saint! Beatify that man at once!

Got hyperbole, dude? What seems like a vehicle to sell books? Not posting on his site because it takes up too much of his time to clean up the nincompoops? Posting nothing on this site because he's so behind on his book seems like a great way to sell more books... eyeroll WTF?

by AucklandGM on Dec 19, 2007 10:57 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Obviously the website is a vehicle to sell books..
but there is also a message board here for intelligent dicussion about minor league prospects and MiLB in general.

And there are some people who cant discuss things without insulting other people or accusing everyone of being biased against their team. These are just people who dont know their way around an internet message board. Its an ignorance of internet etiquette if you ask me.

If you want to swear, yell, add nothing and bitch about Red Sox prospects please go here:

http://nomaas.org/phpBB1/index.php

Theyll love it. Seriously.

But this isnt that type of board...

by alskor on Dec 19, 2007 3:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well yes it is BUT..........
John was selling books well before he started this website, so lets not make it seem like that is the ONLY reason for this website.

by goalieguy on Dec 19, 2007 8:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

And your diatribe
smacks of ignorance, jealousy, and callousness. Speaking of hypocrisy, it seems kind of stupid to call John a hypocrite and say his post is bitter and childish when it seems like the only thing on this thread that displays those qualities is your post. Isn't it a bit silly to insult people and then call them childish?

by AucklandGM on Dec 19, 2007 10:52 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, but
I did it knowingly and without the holier-than-thou shtick. And of course there's the thing about my claims against him being right and his against John being false. The veiled insults against him and his work have gone up from none to a bunch lately, and it's starting to piss me off. Knowing John is trying to work on a book and all, and he has to come here and listen to some of these clowns, it probably sucks. I guess if calling out people trashing John is childish and hypocritical, then I suppose I am, but at least I own up to it. I doubt we'll see that from the above post or others like it anytime soon.

by AucklandGM on Dec 19, 2007 5:59 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

K
wasn't sure whether your post was sarcastic or not. I was wondering if it was, but it's hard to tell on teh internetz.

by AucklandGM on Dec 19, 2007 11:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Definition of Troll
A troll is one of those benighted souls that randomly posts inflammatory (and often profanity-laced) posts on discussion boards in an attempt to incite a flame war.  Trolls don't really care about the topic at hand, they simply enjoy provoking reactions.

They are roughly analogous to those junior-high bullies that stand at the corner and shout insults at the kids passing by.  They don't know their targets from Adam, but attacking others is their only opportunity to demonstrate influence in the world.

The name is a pun between the mythically ugly beast and the method of fishing in which a line is slowly dragged through the water searching for a bite.

by Valentine on Dec 19, 2007 11:18 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I have to say
Almost anyone who knows baseball or looks at prospects for a living, a guy at BA or BP or John, There all going to pretty much agree when a guy is a stud.
John says he is a tough grader. So if BA gives someone an A... John may agree, but knock him down a peg to A- because lets say, he thinks his strikeouts are way to high and worries he wont lower it to a managable number at higher levels. But that doesnt mean John doesnt think the kid can be a flat out stud.
As he has written many times here, before he starts his top 20 lists. He doesnt give to many A- grades or higher to people. I believe last years book had 23 A- or better rated players. I may be off by 1, I only took a quick glance. But thats less than 1 per team. He is a tough grader. You cant give every guy an A grade.
And also, there is no need to insult John on any level. The fact he even posts a list at all for free is generous enough. And here is a great idea. If you think he is so bad at this. How about leaving and never coming back. You clicked on his website. He did not invade your home. I am not writing this to anyone in particular. Just anyone who has insulted John on this website.
Just my 2 cents.

by Maxima231 on Dec 19, 2007 8:52 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

yikes
I haven't been here in a while, it's sad to see that this great site is being compromised by internet BS.

Trolls are typically very empty and cowardly people who need to satisfy their passive-aggressive urges via the safety of the internet.  I sort of feel bad for them.

http://www.deweyshouse.com

by SmokeyJoeWood on Dec 19, 2007 9:16 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Enjoy the Time Off John
I can't understand why anyone would all out complain about essentially one individuals opinion.  Obviously you put a lot of time and research into each prospect, but when it comes down to it, everything is in the eye of the beholder.  You do an amazing job breaking down teams top prospects while giving wonderful teasers for your book.

Hopefully the troll situation gets sorted out.  I have always went on the premise of 'Just don't look', but obviously, often times that is easier said than done.  I look forward to a barrage of Prospect list post hiatus.

The internet's latest attempt at understanding what is going on inside baseball - http://theoutsiderslook.blogspot.com

by bheikoop on Dec 19, 2007 10:04 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Sorry about the fuss, John
I don't always agree with John (for instance, every time he doesn't list a Mets prospect as an A+, I call up and threaten to cancel my subscription!) but I appreciate what he's doing and what he does for the baseball community.  

We're a bunch of geeky, needy nerds, aren't we?

by Lunkwill Fook on Dec 19, 2007 10:36 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Com' on
Don't want to be a ass but what the flip man?

I basically spend 10% of my day watching, writing, researching baseball and I don't get paid for it. I am sure this site has helped book sales and made you more prominent in the biz. I am glad to see you are so concerned with quality control. You can figure out a way to get the knuckleheads out without burdening yourself.

For a joke about the situation I refer to Fight Club. "Bob had bitch-tits". Don't be Robert Paulson.  

My first mistake was assuming you knew what I was talking about.

by Shamus on Dec 19, 2007 11:06 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Happy Holidays
John, we all know how hard you work and the great majority appreciate the site. I think that fee for posting makes a lot of sense and would weed out the troublesome posters. I may have an even simpler solution, nominate some of your more prolific and rational posters to serve as administators and allow them to moderate the threads and delete posts as necessary.

by comish4lif on Dec 20, 2007 12:04 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Happy holidays John and family
Asa frequent lurker, thought it would be a good idea to register just to thank you for this very useful site and your interesting insight. I think that the troll problem would be better solved by not interacting with them and by quickly banning impolite and uncivil posters.

Thanks

by Raymond Dilio on Dec 23, 2007 9:33 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

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