Does anyone want Mark Prior?

by grozzy on Nov 28, 2007 12:10 PM EST

ESPN was reporting that the Cubs are looking to trade Prior and are likely to non-tender him otherwise. Does anyone think that hes not a lost cause at this point? Who do you think takes a gamble on him?

I have to think that he has some value, even after all the injuries. He was arguably the most valuable pitcher in baseball after 2003 given his age and performance. At this point it is probably unreasonable to expect him to regain his stuff, but its not impossible that he could at least be a solid pitcher with weaker stuff given his control.

Should the Cubs be able to get even a marginal prospect for him from a team? Does anyone want him bad enough to give up even a marginal prospect to make sure they get him?

Does anyone even care at this point?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3129805

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Prior

I would think he would fetch something in a deal..nothing huge. If he gets Non tendered..maybe a 1 year deal for say 3 million with alotta incentives and a 2nd option year for a team in case he does pay off. He could be a real steal if he can get to where he was..its not likely to happen..but if I am GM..I would take the risk

by NYSOX on Nov 28, 2007 12:02 PM EST reply actions

I agree

Prior is definitely a guy that I would take a flyer on if I were a GM. And I think the contract you mention (if he's non-tendered) seems pretty reasonable. In a trade, I would guess Prior would bring back one or two low-level prospects with some upside, but in need of a lot of refinement. He certainly won't fetch any top-tier prospects, but I could see maybe a raw hitter or power-arm.

"A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day." - Calvin

by RVachon on Nov 28, 2007 12:05 PM EST up reply actions

Prior

its a shame what happened to Prior. I really thought he would be one of the 2 or 3 best pitchers in baseball by now. He had the ability to be in Santana class by now.

by NYSOX on Nov 28, 2007 12:15 PM EST up reply actions

I am not so sure...

I really don't think anyone will trade anything of value for Prior, but I could see all sorts of teams taking a flier on him - something like a 1 or 2 yr deal for $2MM or $3MM per year, loaded with incentives for # of starts.

This is exactly the sort of signing a team like Pittsburgh or KC should make - low risk, high reward.

by guru4u on Nov 28, 2007 12:50 PM EST reply actions

The Yankees

They did it with John Lieber - signing him while he was out for the season in order to stockpile pitching. If Prior is willing to work some in triple A (on a major league contract) they'd probably do it with him as well. The upside is tremendous, and if the downside is only money . . .

by Locke000 on Nov 28, 2007 1:16 PM EST reply actions

Chris Carpenter

is another example of this (signing a guy to rehab).

But, as I understand it, Prior isn't out for 2008, he can pitch. Somewhere.

I would absolutely take a risk on Prior, and I'd do it before he gets released, so I don't have any competition. Toss the Cubs a high A pitcher who's got command issues but could project and a Quad A organizational hitter, and the deal's done.

by Yakker on Nov 28, 2007 1:29 PM EST up reply actions

Jays

Because of the Carpenter comp I'd like to see the Jays take a chance on Prior and hope he turns our like Carpenter did for St Louis (even if only for a couple of years).

by bunner19 @ Minor League Ball on Nov 28, 2007 4:24 PM EST up reply actions

a team like the nats or marlins

should really be checking him, clement and colon out. honestly, a club signing the three of them and getting someothing out of just one of them would be a huge boost.

by znyfan on Nov 28, 2007 1:45 PM EST reply actions

I'd be pissed

if the Cubs let him go. Unless something can get done in a trade that is actually going to be productive, I'd be so mad to have to wait through all these injuries to go see him pitch healthy for somebody else because the Cubs didn't want to resign him. There have been some things floating around like he has told the Cubs he will not resign with them and if thats the case then he obviously has to go. It has just been a horribly run ordeal and to give up on the guy now when things were "fixed" would piss me off so much as a fan.

by wibadger on Nov 28, 2007 2:18 PM EST reply actions

Sorry

Mark won't be "pitching healthy" for ANYONE and things are certainly not "fixed".

His shoulder is garbage. Of all teams, the Cubs are more than willing to wait for a pitcher through injuries if there is a chance he will regain his health and stuff (see Wood, Prior to this point, Dempster, Wade Miller).

Mark had major major surgery. Its painful as a Cubs fan but the chance for him to be big league pitcher again in any effective capacity has past.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by HuskerBob on Nov 29, 2007 9:37 AM EST up reply actions

Carpenter

Bob, i always enjoy hearing your take on a pitcher. My question for you though is why do you think Prior can't come back and be effective? If I am not mistaken, Andrews (or whomever did the surgery) basically said it was the same surgery that Chris Carpenter had back in the early '00's, but Carpenter was actually worse off. Carp came back to be very good, well, until his last injury, so why can't Prior?

Thanks for any info you can provide!

by drwmsu1 on Nov 29, 2007 3:50 PM EST up reply actions

Three Nails in the Coffin

Prior had surgery on his capsule, rotator cuff and labrum.

The cuff was a debridement or cleaning up of small tears or debris. Despite what Will Carroll will tell you, this was the least of his repairs. I'm guessing this injury was likely in the back of the shoulder.

The capsule was tightened to stabilize the joint, you may have heard reports of his shoulder being "loose". What I've read is speculation that he had a capsular shift done but I wouldn't rule out thermal shrinkage. Regardless, these are loss of ROM procedures with no guarantee that it returns.

The most significant in my mind was the labrum tear which he either had bolted, sewn or stapled. As you can guess this causes scar tissue but even worse its deep in the joint and hard to get that out of there. Its painful and power sapping.

Prior was pitching with the cuff issues (minor) for awhile which I believe led to the labrum.

To the point, I don't know the exact extent of Carp's procedure, but I will tell you the success rate of pitchers with this much work done on them returning to the bigs is pretty low. Mark looked about as bad a pitcher can look in spring training this year ("throwing pies", as Carroll put it).

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by HuskerBob on Nov 29, 2007 4:46 PM EST up reply actions

I didn't realize

the extent of the work that Prior had done. I had only read the standard propaganda that it was successful and wasn't a career threatening injury.

I guess the Cubs still aren't speaking candidly about medical issues.

by circuitclout on Nov 29, 2007 6:20 PM EST up reply actions

The Cubs...

are famous for being straight forward and truthful about injuries.

Don't listen to HB's doom and gloom. ;)

by SenorGato88 on Nov 29, 2007 6:55 PM EST up reply actions

Appreciate it n/m

by drwmsu1 on Nov 29, 2007 7:41 PM EST up reply actions

Prior

I'm not sure why only small market teams are being mentioned. I would take a flier on him if I were in a large market as well. Pitching is almost always a need. Why not get a guy with a live arm? He might still have some upside and if have holes in my rotation (Mets, Yankees, potentially Dodgers, etc.) then I would take a chance.

The small market guys will be interested too, but there should be a lot of teams that inquire about him.

by count sutton on Nov 28, 2007 2:54 PM EST reply actions

prior

Not sure 'Live' is an accurate description for his arm.

God rested one day out of 7, Felix rests 4 out of 5.

by CrimsonLiederhosen on Nov 28, 2007 3:11 PM EST up reply actions

perhaps not live

but it's not dead. I think he's worth a risk for teams. I certainly think the Mets would consider his arm about as live as El Duque's, who can't stay healthy.

The other thing about Prior is that he didn't just throw hard, but he was a good pitcher. I could see him not dialing it up like he used to and be effective. Health will always be an issue and it very possible he will flame out; I'm just not sure why people think the Marlins, Pirates, Royals, and such would be the only teams justified in taking a gamble.

by count sutton on Nov 28, 2007 4:14 PM EST up reply actions

NOT as live as El Duque's

If that gives you an idea of his condition at this point.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by HuskerBob on Nov 29, 2007 9:38 AM EST up reply actions

Prior

I think he'll head home to SoCal, where a team like the Dodgers will take a gamble on him (afterall, they have Schmidt and Nomar...) on something like 1/2M (about half what Kerry Wood got) with the second year being a team option that could vest at, say, 100IP. It would afford Prior all the time he needs to come back, and he'd be looked at as a second half pickup.

The worst case is that he doesn't make it back to the show, or that he does and sucks. Ideally, the surgery takes as well as it did for Chris Carpenter and you've got an ace on your hands on the cheap. Either way, good signing.

by GuyinNY on Nov 28, 2007 4:21 PM EST reply actions

Prior to the A's...

would that surprise anybody?

All I can do is sit back and watch the Cubs be the Cubs this offseason. Watch him heal perfectly on another franchise and pitch his ass off for a little while....wouldn't surprise me at all...

by SenorGato88 on Nov 28, 2007 4:56 PM EST reply actions

ha, +1

the most likely scenario for .

I used to use Prior's mechanics as a teaching tool for my teams (16u kids). I couldn't even try it now w/ a straight face, thanks Dusty (& Co. He shouldn't carry all the blame).

Mulder: Babe Ruth was an alien? Arthur Dales: sure; all the great ones were aliens.

by dew on Nov 28, 2007 5:11 PM EST up reply actions

No worries

Lefty, take a look at some video of Prior last spring training. Its painful to watch. He won't be going anywhere and healing "perfectly". If he ever makes the bigs again at all I'll be surprised and happy for him, having been a big fan.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by HuskerBob on Nov 29, 2007 9:39 AM EST up reply actions

Prior to the first team that drafted him

The Yankees?

by NYYLover1000 on Nov 28, 2007 5:05 PM EST reply actions

Prior

To the Reds... Just because it would be hilarious...

God rested one day out of 7, Felix rests 4 out of 5.

by CrimsonLiederhosen on Nov 28, 2007 6:26 PM EST reply actions

As a Prior owner

in my Sim League... I found that very unfunny lol.

"Tim Lincecum will win 1 Cy Young and 11 Tim Lincecums." -uga007

by Boxkutter on Nov 28, 2007 6:31 PM EST up reply actions

WTF?

Who is still owns Prior in ANY league?

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by HuskerBob on Nov 29, 2007 9:40 AM EST up reply actions

LOL!

Our league started in 2003, and I took over the Cubs. Prior is the only player I have left over from the beginning. A couple offseasons ago I signed him to a contract extension for just over $5.6 million a season. His contract for me ends after the 2009 season. This past season on the sim he posted an 11-7 record with an ERA of 5.26. He started the season 9-2 for me, but then fell into a funk after the AS Break. But still, for 11 wins, 5.6 million isn't bad (my caproom is around 100 million). Plus I have drafted good SPs (Verlander, Hill, Lincecum) so I am not paying them nearly as much and have a little extra cap space to keep guys like Prior around in case he can come back. Still, I don't think I will be re-signing him in 2009 unless he does come back and has a good couple seasons.

"Tim Lincecum will win 1 Cy Young and 11 Tim Lincecums." -uga007

by Boxkutter on Nov 29, 2007 10:42 AM EST up reply actions

It's nice to hear

that in some alternate sim universe, Prior is still pitching effectively.

by Yakker on Nov 29, 2007 12:51 PM EST up reply actions

You got a mean streak, CL

by Yakker on Nov 28, 2007 7:13 PM EST up reply actions

The only thing

worse would be him going to the south side. White Sox fans are blowhards as it is - if Prior came back and pitched well for them, it would be louder and more obnoxious than '05.

Send your top 50-100 prospects to slurveone@yahoo.com!!!

by slurve on Nov 28, 2007 7:17 PM EST up reply actions

control?

I'm not sure he still has good control. After the shoulder surgeries we don't even know if he can use the same mechanics or if he has some impediments and has to alter his delivery.

His loss of velocity has to either be structural integrity/strength or impediment based. If they put it back together and it's structural then it means there is a very high chance of it breaking down. If it's impediment based then his mechanics would likely change.

Either case is ugly. If of course he is able to regain much of the velocity and pitch without impediment then it's a different story. Not holding my breath.

by pedrophile on Nov 28, 2007 7:28 PM EST reply actions

Velocity

went byebye awhile ago.

And it was structural, big time.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by HuskerBob on Nov 29, 2007 9:41 AM EST up reply actions

Prior should try to stay in the NL

I just do not think he would make it in the powerful American League. I think a deal of Prior for Chase Headley type would be a good idea, as he would be reunited with Greg Maddux who could teach him a thing or two about stamina and longevity. I dunno if San Diego would do it, but it would be a worthwhile risk

by dlpme77 on Nov 28, 2007 8:25 PM EST reply actions

Cubs are actually in a good spot, I think

The Cubs have some depth in their starting rotation with Zambrano, Lilly, Hill, Gallagher, Marshall, Marquis, Dempster, Mateo and Holliman.

Ideally, I think, the Cubs should be looking for a right-hander that could slot in at #3 and push Hill back to #4 with one of marshall, marquis or dempster rounding out the rotation. Prior could be that guy at $3 to $4 million. That is a pretty good deal given the cost to trade for a pitcher with a comparable upside and the weak free agent class.

Or, the Cubs could trade Prior for a useful piece for this season and then look into bringing in another high-risk, high-reward pitcher like Bartolo Colon to fill the role of potential impact but injury prone #3.

My first call would be to Arizona to see if they had any interest giving up Chad Tracy or Orlando Hudson. The Diamondbacks are looking for pitching and the Cubs are looking for a left-handed bat.

It makes sense to me. Anyone have thoughts?

by circuitclout on Nov 28, 2007 9:54 PM EST reply actions

Value

I may be totally off base here, but I'm very much of the mind that Mark Prior is not worth that sort of player in a transaction. It might actually be a good thought experiment to see what kind of player you'd surrender for him. As an example, I'd imagine the Angels might deal a Terry Evans (once traded for another combustible live arm, Jeff Weaver). The Astros could move a Mike Costanzo, or the Yankees an Eric Duncan.

A prospect who's lost his luster, or one who everyone seems to agree is very flawed, would seem to be the right price.

by GuyinNY on Nov 28, 2007 10:35 PM EST up reply actions