DRays Future

by Savoy on Oct 7, 2007 10:03 PM EDT Comment 22 comments

I've been reading quite a bit lately about top prospects from this year as well as minor league all star teams and so forth. It seems as if the DRays are just loaded with prospects as well as good young players in the big leagues.
Minor league prospects:
Jennings, OF
Hellickson, P
McGee, P
Davis, P
Price, P
Longoria, 3B
Brignac, SS
Niemann, P
Mason, P
Royster, DH
Ruggiano, OF
Jaso, C
F Perez, OF

Major league potential stars:
Kazmir, P
Orvella, P
Salas, P
Shields, P
Sonnanstine, P
Guzman, IF
Pena, 1B
Baldelli, OF
Upton, OF
Dukes, OF
Crawford, OF
D Young, OF

OK, so you cannot argue with the potential that exists. My question is: Will the DRays ever be able to make the playoffs? As long as they stay in the same division with the Yankees & Red Sox, is it realistic for them to be able to compete for a playoff spot? I have heard that management is not interested in winning, they just want to make money. Will they be able to keep their all stars and pay them? Will they ever be able to translate all this talent into a winning franchise?
If they will be a playoff team, how long will it take? Will they be a playoff team in 2 years? 5 years? 8 years?

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Maybe

The Yankee's position players are all getting older and if they lose Arod that could hurt them alot esp since 3b is weak in FA behind lowell

1941 .406

by FrozenTed9 on Oct 7, 2007 10:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Betemit is the 3B insurance

he just needs ABs.

Todd Frazier for President

by FrazierFan on Oct 7, 2007 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Betemit won't stand a chance

Granted he isn't that bad of a player but he has shoes to fill that will substantially weaken the Yankees' lineup.

Go Jays!!!!

Allan's World

Blue bird Banter

by achengy on Oct 8, 2007 2:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Glad to see . . .

that this has turned into a discussion about the Yankees 3B situation.

So are the DRays ever going to be a playoff team?

The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. It reminds us of all that once was good, and that could be again.

by Savoy on Oct 8, 2007 8:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Personally

It all depends on management with this team. Their window to win is going to be in the next two years with about 5 years or so (give or take depending on when guys like Price, Pedro Alvarez et al. get the call up). If, and this is a big if, management can re-sign Delmon, Bossman, Kazmir and Shields long term then they have a solid chance to compete for a prolonged period of time. Couple those four with Brignac, Longoria, Davis, McGee, Price and Niemann and youve got the makings of an all homegrown talent laden team.

Of course this all depends on Friedman and gang to pay their employees what their worth. So far that hasnt really happened which is sad becuase this team could be special

by tbach81 on Oct 8, 2007 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think it also depends

on the development of Young. Right now, he is no better than average production for a RF, so it's all about projection for him...and there are some of the classic chinks in the armor (pitch selectivity and attitude) that can keep prospects from reaching their potential. Not saying he can't or won't, but I don't think it's a certainty that he'll be the next Vlad that so many seem to already be penciling him in as.

Obviously, it also depends on the successful continuation of the development of a lot of tehse guys. It's just that Young seems to be a cornerstone in this suite of projections, and he's got some flaws that could lower whatever ceiling is finally reached.

by siddfynch on Oct 8, 2007 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

it seems ...

that the latest regime is on the right track with regards to personnel, development, etc. And Mgr. Maddon (sp.?) appears to be on his game as well. Note how he parked the aforementioned Young's rear to the bench untl he rec'd a public apology. And yeah he let him play afterwards but pt was made. At least he's humorously quotable ala Earl of Baltimore. It's not his fault he was saddled w/ perhaps the most inept relief corps in MLB history, he had to put someone out there to pitch ...

I did a little '09 projection thing a wk or so ago but scrap that; just on who they have now:

Crawford, LF
Iwamura, 2B
Young, RF
Pena, 1B
Upton, CF
Longoria, 3B
Gomes, Baldelli?, DH
B.Harris, SS
Navarro, C

It is all about projection but oh what a ceiling.

SP 1 - Kazmir (bonafide ace)
SP 2 - Shields (above ave. #2)
SP 3 - Sonnastine (decent innings eater, still time for more)
SP 4 - E.Jackson (ugh, but still young w/ a little upside left)
SP 5 - Niemann (it's time to find out)

I like Niemann better in a setup or even closer role but Wheeler & Reyes can handle that for 1 more season. September callups for McGee, Davis & Hellickson.

Their MR is just garbage, Glover has some potential but man it was rough watching them explode game after game last yr. Mid season callups for some of the kiddies would probably perform better than what they have now but all 3 of those kids really need another full yr in minors.

2008 and 2009 will be the learning curve, 2010 is when they should jell and compete for the post season. Crawford & Baldelli's deals are up after 2010 as well, can't rule out a trade or two to help in '09. By '10 Jennings could be ready, possibly Alvarez will be there and acclimated. Right now its all wishes & hopes but for the 1st time ever they're doing things the "right way".

by dew on Oct 8, 2007 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

and ...

Most of those guys you have listed as potential "stars" it ain't gonna happen.

Orvella panics & throws gasoline anytime anyone gets on base (not a good thing for a groomed closer / RP), but Salas stuff is nasty and has great potential (reminds me of Jose Mesa in a good way); Guzman will be a career back up, might pull off a few good yrs w/ stick (ala Tony Clark) and I guess Dukes is history. I'd try & get what I could for him, he really needs a change of scenery for his own good if nothing else.

Also I didn't even mention Brignac in above post, he should take over for Harris by '09 at latest. I'm not as sold on him as some, but injuries can delay/throw off expectations some. He looks to be an ave. MLB INF if nothing else, not such a terrible thing.

by dew on Oct 8, 2007 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

#3

If he stays healthy, you could probably slot Price in the rotation after Shields. Mahalo

Matt

I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

by WayneCampbell05 on Oct 11, 2007 2:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Healthy

If he's healthy, I'm he's going to be better than Shields.

by Tyler on Oct 11, 2007 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

Most likely in the long run, but in '09 Shields will have been in the league for 3 years and that will most likely be Price's rookie season. My bet would be on Shields to have a better year that year. Mahalo

Matt

I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

by WayneCampbell05 on Oct 11, 2007 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

and ...

Shields is the perfect kind of pitcher to break up two power lefties (Kazmir & Price). I'm sure in a few seasons Price will overtake Shields but its usually a good idea not to run two similar pitchers in a row out there (unless they are both so overpowering you don't have much choice).

having Sonnastine follow Price would probably help him as well (again contrasting styles).

by dew on Oct 11, 2007 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ok

I'll concede both points. Sorry about my grammer too. That's terrible. I can't type today.

by Tyler on Oct 11, 2007 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Probably...

Last place perpetually.

by HumboltThunderbolt on Oct 8, 2007 2:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yes, but...

The Devil Rays CAN propel their way into contention sometime in the next decade, but to do so, they have to get a bit luckier with some of their young guys turning into bonafide stars.

With each passing year, the annually predicted Carl Crawford power spike is looking less and less likely. At this point, he pretty much is what he is: a slightly above average bat, just about average for a LF, whose durability and baserunning add to his value. 2007 wasn't quite a make or break for Baldelli, but it was close. Upton broke out with the bat in a big way this past year, but gave up a lot of the runs he created with the bat with horrible infield defense. Young's season was disappointing all around, but he still has mammoth potential.

For whatever reason, none of the Rays' prospects have come in and instantly lived up to their prospect hype, with the exception of Kazmir. On the pitching side, a lot of that is the fact that their defense was absolutely terrible at turning balls in play into outs all year. Inserting Longoria into 3B, moving Iwamura, and getting a competent defensive SS to replace Harris will improve this team bigtime. If Upton can turn his tools into above average CF defense, the Rays are poised to break out in a big way next year.

Reporting on Baseball from around the world! http://globalbaseball.wordpress.com

by jhelfgott on Oct 8, 2007 5:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

OF defense

I'd say Upton is already an above-average CFer, and if he isn't now, he will be by next year. He's a natural CF. He's really good out there. And CC is way better than an average defensive LFer. He's the best defensive LFer in the game and it's not particularly close (now most LFers aren't very good, but still, he is). Their OF D is going to be really good next year.

They do need a significant upgrade defensively at SS. It might even be worth it to sign a guy like Cesar Izturis, who's offense is a black-hole, but in the Rays could probably deal with it for the increase in range he'd provide over Wilson/Harris combo. That combined with Aki, Longoria and Pena would be a pretty solid all around IF defense.

by Tyler on Oct 9, 2007 7:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Crawford

I was saying his bat is just about average for a left fielder, not that he is an average left fielder defensively.

Reporting on Baseball from around the world! http://globalbaseball.wordpress.com

by jhelfgott on Oct 9, 2007 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Homerism

It might be a little homerism on my part, but I'm pretty sure Reed Johnson is the best defensive LF around. He is a natural CF and the arm of a RF.

Rios is the next Juan Gonzales, thats right, I said it.

by KaoticKlown on Oct 10, 2007 2:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No

stuck in a long-term lease, would be difficult and very expensive to break.

Vice-Chairman of the Sonnanstine Underground Railroad

by Brickhaus on Oct 8, 2007 8:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Like 20 years

They pay $1 a year for it too.

by Tyler on Oct 9, 2007 7:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

schilling

none of you all think schilling will sign a contract with tampa this offseason? Boston doesn't need him and schilling has gone on record saying he'd play for tampa. It would be good for the development of shields and kazmir to sit and watch and learn from a pitcher who can pitch and been around the majors

by krgrecw on Oct 8, 2007 9:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Rays' future

For the past 2-3 years, I have scratched my head at predictions by 'experts' that the Rays would finish as high as 3rd or 4th in the AL East. I dont see how any knowledgeable person could have reasonably thought that w their pitching staff. But now with several bona fide top pitching prospects ready or almost ready for the bigs, I think they finally can make some progress.

I can see the Rays making a run at .500 in 2008 and maybe contending for a playoff spot in 2009. The offense already is there. It all depends on how well and how fast their young pitchers develop.

by rhd on Oct 9, 2007 9:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs