Holy frick, this is a joke. Elias is bad.

by AucklandGM on Oct 31, 2007 10:02 PM EDT

Rotoworld:
Carlos Silva, who could command north of $32 million for four years as a free agent this winter, won't net the Twins any compensation under the newly unveiled Elias rankings.

Both Kyle Lohse and Carlos Silva were league average starters this year, but their respective teams won't get a pick in return for their departures. And get this- the Cards could get a supplemental 1st round pick if Percival leaves since he is somehow a class B FA (according to Rotoworld), even though he's pitched only 65 innings in the last 3 years combined. And somehow A-Rod is below Mike Lowell and Robinson Cano on the list of infielders?? WTF? Apparently they still use RBI as one of the measures for hitters, fielding percentage and total chances (?) for fielders, and wins and W-L% for starters? What is this, the fricken dark ages? We have better stats than this to show us how good players have been, even ones that are in the mainstream (for all you VORP and WARP haters). Why are they still using such ridiculous methods for one of the most important offseason events? Even if they are currently using the stats and measures they say they do, I swear that some of the ratings are just so whacked that sometimes I think the Elias people just draw names out of a hat or something...

What are the Elias people smoking when they do these rankings? MLB needs to get a new system, because Elias is a joke.

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agreed

How the hell is jorge julio a type B???

by FishHead on Oct 31, 2007 9:49 PM EDT reply actions

and the opposite

how the hell is david riske a 'type b'?

by doublestix on Oct 31, 2007 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions

Really Odd

I can't understand how Riske is a Type B after his last two seasons.

by Bowser on Nov 1, 2007 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions

wow

you called elias a joke and thats the only word that comes to mind that John would allow me to post that describes this system.

I kinda understand why they use RBIs and wins and statistics of that nature. MLB is trying to compensate teams based on the value of the player to the team that is losing him. But even if you disagree with that concept, this system is a joke.

by kaisertown on Oct 31, 2007 9:59 PM EDT reply actions

Still unfair

"I kinda understand why they use RBIs and wins and statistics of that nature. MLB is trying to compensate teams based on the value of the player to the team that is losing him. But even if you disagree with that concept, this system is a joke."

Even if that's the case, they are giving an unfair advantage to the better teams just because they had more guys on base to drive in, or their pitchers had more run support and tallied more wins.

by Stephcaflowne on Oct 31, 2007 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions

yeah I totally agree

I wasn't trying to say that it's right just that I "kinda understand it"

by kaisertown on Oct 31, 2007 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions

It

takes into effect the last 3 years sliva's bad 06 made it almost impossible for him to make it. I think it's weighted 3-2-1 maybe?

1941 .406

by FrozenTed9 on Oct 31, 2007 10:00 PM EDT reply actions

I've seen worse players rated as A's though...

He was league average in 2007, bad in 2006, and quite good in 2005. That should at least be worth a type B ranking. I understand why though if they are using Wins and W-L%, but that is stupid. The Twins offense was atrocious; that's not Carlos Silva's fault.

by AucklandGM on Oct 31, 2007 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions

I think its only the last 2 years

since the title is
"2006-2007 Final Rankings "

And they extrapolate for time missed due to injury.

by VladiHondo on Nov 1, 2007 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions

thanks a lot Andruw for sucking

Can't even get a 1st rounder for him now.

by Bravesin07 on Oct 31, 2007 10:05 PM EDT reply actions

B?

Andruw came out as a type B? Wow... that makes him a lot more attractive as a free agent.

by Stephcaflowne on Oct 31, 2007 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions

ABC

I think they changed the rules and it is much harder to be type A or B.

by elricsi on Oct 31, 2007 11:07 PM EDT reply actions

But A-rod? Percival?

He has been the league MVP 2 of the last 3 years! How is that less valuable than Mike Lowell and Robinson Cano? The system is bogus.

And it's not too hard to be a rated FA apparently. Percival took a whole season off and pitched sparingly in the two others and still managed a type B rating...

by AucklandGM on Oct 31, 2007 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions

Joba

Nearly made Type B, despite pitching for what...two months?!?! What a joke. I know he's not a free agent, but still.

by doublestix on Oct 31, 2007 11:28 PM EDT reply actions

One reason it's so stupid is...

I'm pretty sure that Elias's criterion aren't just whatever Elias wants them to be. I believe it's a part of the CBA and as such has to be agreed upon by the owners and MLBPA.

This means a couple of things. Primarily, it means we'll be stuck with the current system for a while. Secondarily, it means that even when it is up for review, I kinda doubt it'll be a high priority unless like EVERYTHING else is peachy. Actually, now (while MLB is flush with cash and experiencing record attendance) would be a great time for the CBA to come up for re-negotiation, since presumably they could focus on important-but-not-really-money-related stuff like this.

by mraver on Oct 31, 2007 11:58 PM EDT reply actions

Elias and the ranking

I know someone who works for Elias (used to be in a fantasy league with him, friend of a friend) and he told us they use a formula that was provided to them by the player's union in 1981, and that the formula has not changes since 1981

I'm not sure what it would take to change it, but I hope rankings like this would do it.

One thing he mentioned is that the only defensive metric used is fielding percentage, and that's it's weighed pretty heavily (more than one would think intuitively), so arod's 93.5% fielding percentage last year could really hurt him vs Lowell....

by Jgaztambide on Nov 1, 2007 12:13 AM EDT reply actions

Yeah

Knowing that Elias is a pretty good and well respected outfit, I wondered in the back of my head if the ridiculousness had a little something to do with some BS forced on them by MLB or the MLBPA, and maybe they were just compiling stuff and punching the numbers. The bogus ratings seem to be harder to attain so more teams have an incentive to sign guys since they wouldn't have to give up a draft pick. The rich teams like it because they can sign more guys without giving up picks to half the league and the smaller market teams can sign mid tier guys without giving up the picks they need to stay competitive. Though I can also see the small teams losing more from letting guys go without getting picks back than they gain from signing C guys that don't require draft pick compensation.

But c'mon. A-rod behind Lowell and Cano? Percival a B type FA after his last 3 seasons? That's just stupid.

by AucklandGM on Nov 1, 2007 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions