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BA's Carolina Top 20

In a down year for the league, here is the top 20:

  1. Jordan Schafer, of, Myrtle Beach Pelicans (Braves)
  2. Chris Marrero, of, Potomac Nationals
  3. Elvis Andrus, ss, Myrtle Beach Pelicans (Braves)
  4. Max Ramirez, c, Kinston Indians
  5. Wes Hodges, 3b, Kinston Indians
  6. Chorye Spoone, rhp, Frederick Keys (Orioles)
  7. Brandon Erbe, rhp, Frederick Keys (Orioles)
  8. Tommy Hanson, rhp, Myrtle Beach Pelicans (Braves)
  9. Adam Carr, rhp, Potomac Nationals
  10. Matt Whitney, 1b, Kinston Indians
  11. Mitch Einertson, of, Salem Avalanche (Astros)
  12. Daniel Cortes, rhp, Wilmington Blue Rocks (Royals
  13. Josh Rodriguez, ss, Kinston Indians
  14. Sergio Perez, rhp, Salem Avalanche (Astros)
  15. Brad James, rhp, Salem Avalanche (Astros)
  16. Brad Bergesen, rhp, Frederick Keys (Orioles)
  17. Shelby Ford, 2b, Lynchburg Hillcats (Pirates)
  18. Jairo Cuevas, rhp, Myrtle Beach Pelicans (Braves)
  19. Julio Pimentel, rhp, Wilmington Blue Rockies (Royals)
  20. Kyle McCulloch, rhp, Winston-Salem Warthogs (White Sox)

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word on Schafer just keeps getting better
....if he makes my top 25, would you people hold it against me?

by daveh33 on Oct 3, 2007 11:16 AM EDT reply actions  

+1
I would have slotted him in at #3. Schafer & Marrero are the only 2 players I would take over him. Just my 2 cents!
I heard Tim Lincecum will win 1 Cy Young & 11 Tim Lincecums. Question is, how many Cole Hamels will he win?

by the pinstripes on Oct 3, 2007 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well
I may not have had him that high, but I'd take him before a majority of the players on that list.

I guess, to be fair, he did sort of come out of nowhere this year. He's one of those "projectable righties" that had a leap in stuff and command this year, and you can see the results in his stat line.

by doublestix on Oct 3, 2007 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1
He's easily a top 100 overall prospect for me.

I know, I know, these lists are based on the opinions of all-knowing coaches....

by deezle on Oct 3, 2007 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

still not getting the point
no one called the coaches "all-knowing" -- people just pointed out that they offer a different perspective than the one a prospect analyst would offer.

to the contrary, you're the one who keeps suggesting coaches know NOTHING, which is what people are arguing with.

by bleedjaxblue on Oct 3, 2007 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wrong
I've never said the coaches know "nothing"; rather, I've said and continue to maintain that they don't have the skillset to properly evaluate young players in regard to their potential for success in the bigs.  

by deezle on Oct 3, 2007 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't take this as argumentative..
As I'm really just interested in exploring the question of the value of these lists, but as another poster mentioned, do you feel the coaches have no role in a team's internal talent evaluation?

I don't have first hand knowledge of this either way, but it would seem logical that they would train the people who are observing their minor league players on a daily basis (ie managers) to be able to evaluate when a player is ready to move up, how they think the player is doing, and what they think the player will become perhaps for use in future placement of the player or even to formulate draft strategy.

It seems reasonable that teams would exploit the manager as an information resource as much as possible, since few people in the organization would have as much first-hand knowledge of a player than that player's manager.

Anyway, I find the discussion interesting and maybe someone could shed more light on the question of a manager's role in a team's internal talent evaluation to give more information as to the validity or usefulness of a list compiled by those people.

by beastball on Oct 3, 2007 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

quotes from you
about what Keith Law would think about how this list ranked a player:

"I'm sure he doesn't care what coaches from the Cal League think.  These lists are essentially pointless."

more....

"I could care less what some has-been low A coach says about a player or group of players in his league because of the inherent biases involved.  

Furthermore, minor league baseball coaches are not scouts, nor are they trained to be.  It would be like asking my finance teacher who will develop into the best I-bankers in our class.  He doesn't know, he's a teacher, not an HR person or IB scout.  

My view may be dramatically different than the majority on here, but I think these lists are incredibly pointless and I would rather here analysis on prospects from intelligent posters on this forum."

"I don't want to get scouting info from Buddy Bell and Larry Bowa rejects. Just "knowing" about a particular industry doesn't mean you have an advanced ability to evaluate others in that industry."

"what is the point of these lists if they aren't BA opinions?  Aren't subscribers paying for "expert" analysis on prospects?"

-------------------

the rest of us would at least care to hear the opinion of people who: 1) see have seen LOTS of developing baseball players over the years, 2) really know their baseball (even if not "scouting," per se), and 3) have seen the players in question on a daily basis (which is infinitely more often than 99.9% of bloggers, mind you).

are there biases and deficiencies in rankings done by managers? absolutely. but many of the rest of us think there is still VALUE to rankings -- especially if we know how the rankings were made, and can therefore hope to correct some of these biases.

you keep calling the rankings "pointless," which, yes, does seem to suggest that coaches know nothing more than a monkey with a keyboard when it comes to evaluating talent in the very leagues in which they participated daily.

by bleedjaxblue on Oct 3, 2007 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

To the point about bias...
I certainly think there will be bias, but I think the bias affect is greatly diminished since they poll a group of people thereby equalizing the bias.

by beastball on Oct 3, 2007 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bias is OK
As long it's declared or otherwise known.  

by siddfynch on Oct 3, 2007 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

subject
Are you a scout? What makes your opinion better then these coaches? Do you know for sure that these managers are not trained how to scout?

by Josh @ Minor League Ball on Oct 3, 2007 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Another point about the top 20s...
they don't rely exclusively on manager opinion, as BA details itself, its a top 20 list compiled after interviewing scouts and league managers.

"Baseball America's League Top 20 lists are generated from consultations with scouts and league managers."

by beastball on Oct 4, 2007 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

WOW
So much for the Braves farm being dead.

by Bravesin07 on Oct 3, 2007 11:51 AM EDT reply actions  

Rangers
Hanson is still a Brave. You're right though that Andrus is a Ranger.

Plus the Rangers also have Max Ramirez from the Lofton trade.

by TRanger on Oct 3, 2007 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is BA
on Atlanta's payroll?  These lists have been comical.  

Watch Atlanta have 28 players in the overall top 100.  

by deezle on Oct 3, 2007 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

well, if you;re going to give any organization
the benefit of the doubt, wouldn't it be john scheurholz' led braves?

by overlord on Oct 3, 2007 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wait 'till we get to the older players
Beyond A+, there's like Brent Lillibridge and... yeah....

I guess Isaiah Kaaihue? Maybe Eric Campbell still counts.

Brandon Jones will almost assuredly be on the big club next year, but I guess he's still a prospect. So there's another AAA guy for ya!

The system's got plenty of talent in it. It's just almost all in rookie/A ball.

by mraver on Oct 3, 2007 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

what
The braves have 3 guys on the list.  Comical you say?  I don't get the joke.

by kaisertown on Oct 3, 2007 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

OT Thought
For some strange reason whenever I see one of your posts, I picture you as an evil alternate dimension Bravesin, complete with cheesy mustache & goatee.  Mahalo

Matt

I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

by WayneCampbell05 on Oct 3, 2007 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know of anyone who has said it
is dead but it really is not real deep.  Although I think BA overrated Andrus greatly, he is a decent prospect no longer with the Braves.  They gave up a great deal for Texeira and I wonder if they have 2nd thoughts.

by sdtribefan on Oct 3, 2007 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Braves fan here
At this point... not so much. But if we don't make the playoffs next year and then Tex walks.... then yeah, I'll be having 2nd thoughts. It was an awful lot to give up, but Tex raked for his two months in ATL.

by mraver on Oct 4, 2007 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Mitch E
Nice comeback for Mitch E after two years of struggling.  Let's hope his head is on straight and the progress continues next year.

by Duman on Oct 3, 2007 12:31 PM EDT reply actions  

Wes Hodges
Would like to see what he can do in AA

by Rajah358 on Oct 3, 2007 2:38 PM EDT reply actions  

I think you will get the chance
next year.  I also expect you will get the opportunity to see both of the other Tribe prospects, Rodriguez and Whitney, in AA as well.

by sdtribefan on Oct 3, 2007 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

O's guys
Surprising to see Bergesen on the list and not David Hernandez.  Nice to see Spoone at #6, tho.  I was wondering how far Erbe had dropped, but #7 is not too bad.

by rhd on Oct 3, 2007 6:35 PM EDT reply actions  

Spoone
He's going to start getting more national attention soon.  He's got solid #2 stuff.  92-95 mph fastball with movement, 12-6 curve he can locate, an already effective change-up, and doesn't give up homers.  I'm not sure if he makes it in the top 100 this year, but I think he's got a good chance next year if he continues to improve his control at AA.  

by Harold Baines on Oct 3, 2007 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

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