Greinke

by jasvlm on Jan 16, 2007 11:20 AM EST Comment 18 comments

Does anyone have any insight as to what Greinke's role with the Royals looks like for 2007? He came up at the end of the year and pitched in relief after starting at AA (with fair results). Is he recovered from whatever ailed him earlier in 2006? Is he still considered a potential #1 or #2 starter? He always had great command, but seemed very hittable, but he remains young enough to continue to develop.
Just looking for any information or insight about him going forward...
JAS

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Greinke

Everyone's favorite topic!
He's probably still in line for a starting spot. I think most people, mainly in the Royals organization, are trying to avoid putting any pressure on the kid (still just 23) and just let him go out and pitch. he still has a high ceiling, he's still young. Only time will tell if he gets there.

God rested one day out of 7, Felix rests 4 out of 5.

by CrimsonLiederhosen on Jan 16, 2007 11:40 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

the greinkster

Locks for the Royals rotation, as I know it, are Gil Meche, Odalis Perez, Luke Hudson.

The last 2 spots will be up for grabs. Brian Bannister and Jorge De La Rosa are the frontrunners to get the 2 spots. But Greinke or Todd Wellemeyer can win a spot with a strong spring.

If the Greinkster doesn't win a spot, he might go to the bullpen for part of the year, until a spot opens up. Or he might go to AAA for a month or two to get some confidence.

His potential is still very high. Could still be an Ace, but looking more like a good #2. His ERA was not spectacular in AA this year, but his perephirals were very good, much better than his previous stints in AA. His ERA was jacked up by a few starts early in the season that were bad.

Oh his psych problems. They seem to be over. Mike Sweeney on a rehab assignment said Greinke had really matured since they last met. Said he was a boy turned man during his time off.

Hope that helped.

by doublestix on Jan 16, 2007 12:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Over

Don't say they're 'over'. Provided Greinke's issues weren't just a case of immaturity but were the result of some kind of mental illness, it's not something that can ever be 'over', it's just something you get better at coping with. He's still probably going to have his good days and his bad days.

God rested one day out of 7, Felix rests 4 out of 5.

by CrimsonLiederhosen on Jan 16, 2007 12:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

good post

it's unrealistic to think he'll be "over" his problems........hopefully he has found some meds that agree with him and he can minimize the highs and lows......

by Wheelhouse on Jan 16, 2007 12:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

uh

SEEM to be over. He didn't visibly have any problems.

Even commenting on what was wrong with him is riciculous, no one knows outside of Greinke and his family.

by doublestix on Jan 16, 2007 4:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

closer

i read numerous times he was being groomed to be thier closer

by krgrecw on Jan 16, 2007 3:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

you guys are dumb

For one thing just because he went a bit insane doesn't mean he needs to be on meds?!? Where do you guys get your ideas. How many 21 year olds have the mental ability to deal with the big leagues and losing like the Royals have? Poor Zack pitched great some times and would still lose, if he were playing in a place like Minnisota I guarantee we'd be talking about him like he was one of the hottest arms around. He still has number one SP talent, and make-up. If anything this has just made him even tougher. I think when he gets his chance this time he will run with it pretty well.

by MonsterMasher on Jan 16, 2007 9:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

I'm willing to bet that probably a lot of guys get the way he did and entirely ignore the problem and be worse for it. That could be a reason why so many young players act up or regress once they get a taste. Hopefully, the probem has been addressed and solved for his sake and the organization.

I remember Barry Sanders saying how sad and depressed he would sometimes get going to work during his latter years with the Lions. He suddenly retired when he knew things weren't going to get better in Detroit while the rushing record was at his feet.

by Havok1517 on Jan 17, 2007 2:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

one comment

I really want to agree with the meds comment.

WTF with all this meds? If something is wrong take some meds?

I have to admit I don't understand American psychology. But I dated an American and any time something wasn't going right she talked to her doctors and they gave her different meds.

Why not try to cope once in a while? I was so shocked, stunned, and in disbelief. So you had a shitty day. Take some drugs. You had a great day and are very excited. Take some drugs. You had an average day. Take some drugs. WTF????

Please don't take it the wrong way but it shocked the hell out of me.

Arthur: "Look, you stupid bastard, you've got no arms left!" Black Knight: "Yes I have." Arthur: "Look!" Black Knight: "It's just a flesh wound!"

by pedrophile on Jan 17, 2007 2:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Different

Many americans ARE overmedicated (especially the ADD folks), but if Greinke's situation IS an Apsberger or Autism like condition, which is what it sounds like it COULD be then some form of medication might be the best way for him to get a handle on it quickly. Every case is different of course and we don't know exactly what his problem was but don't dismiss the notion without being aware of the full situation.

God rested one day out of 7, Felix rests 4 out of 5.

by CrimsonLiederhosen on Jan 17, 2007 9:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Crimson

I wasn't talking about Greinke at all. And I'm not saying people in certain situations shouldn't be taking meds. There are always very good cases for that. Totally agreed.

I'm just in shock at how often and how acceptable it is now to take meds for almost any reason. It seems to be a huge crutch for many people.

Arthur: "Look, you stupid bastard, you've got no arms left!" Black Knight: "Yes I have." Arthur: "Look!" Black Knight: "It's just a flesh wound!"

by pedrophile on Jan 17, 2007 2:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Crutches

People who want crutches will find them, sad but true. Whether it's prozac, booze, pot or whatever.

God rested one day out of 7, Felix rests 4 out of 5.

by CrimsonLiederhosen on Jan 17, 2007 2:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

illness, meds et al

just woolgathering here, but clearly Greinke doesn't have Asperger's or Autism -- even mildly -- he's capable of holding a conversation. Schizophrenia also seems highly unlikely, given his presentation. Most people with the above three conditions CLEARLY have something quite wrong with them, even to the casual observer; their grip on reality is tenuous at best.

I'd say just garden variety depression -- even manic depression/bpd doesn't really fit the bill. No mania -- up all night drug binges, driving to Mexico for no reason, maxing out one's credit cards, buying everybody on the team fur coats, blah, blah, blah.

Of course it's nobody's business, but depression seems most likely. Which doesn't really require medication, just some therapy to develop the skills to navigate the lows, which it seems he has done.

Though a study done a few years ago noted that depressed people actually had a more realistic view of the world than non-depressed people -- what does that say about people's ability to pull the wool over their own eyes and live in denial!

That said if I had a world of talent i'd be depressed to play for the Royals, too. Maybe he was just being too honest with himself and got into some psychological trouble.

by derbosspresident on Jan 18, 2007 10:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Autism

I'm no expert by any means but my impression of Autism has been that, like any illness, it has varying degrees of severity with one of the cues/symptoms being a difficulty in interpreting the actions (particularly the subtle ones) of other people and interacting with them comfortably. As I recall this seems to fit with some of the personality traits/questions surrounding Greinke. I'm sure there's a shrink or psychologist somewhere on the board who can confirm or refute that.

God rested one day out of 7, Felix rests 4 out of 5.

by CrimsonLiederhosen on Jan 18, 2007 5:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Pitching in Springfield

I saw Zack pitch last summer in Springfield. The first time he pitched here, he went 8+ and struck out 12 batters on one walk. It was unbelievable. He had the less than vaunted Springfield Cards looking like fools.

The second time may have been my fav though. In one series, I saw him start with a 92mph 2-seamer for strike one. Next, he threw a brushback up and inside to back "fatty" off the plate. His third pitch was (Swear to God) a 64mph curve for strike two. His out pitch was an 87mph slider across the zone for the out. This was a fantastic series.

Now, I will admit I am the biggest Greinke fan. I think he has huge upside, but also has a long ways to go in terms of his issues. However, should he be able to cope with them, I see no reason why he won't be an unbelievable pitcher in the MLB. I don't necessarily see him as an ace, but I do think he will be a very solid #2.

One minor note: In regards to the "American Psychology" comment earlier, "American Psychology" doesn't deal with medications. You would be referring to "American Psychiatry" instead. Psychologists have a PhD and are not licensed to prescribe medications. Psychiatrists on the other hand are licensed medical doctors, and they are able to prescribe medications. (Sorry, just had to)

Anyway, I believe Greinke will be in the bullpen most of the season. It seems like people don't place any emphasis on the negative impact of rushing players. The Baird era is now over (Thank you David Glass), and we Royals fans are ready to usher in an era of allowing players to mature in the system before getting their shot. Hopefully Zack will still be able to do this.

Just my two cents

by ZackAttack on Jan 17, 2007 11:48 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Yes!

Can't wait to see that SLOW curve again. Best pitch ever after a mid 90's fastball...

I think he could definitely be in the bullpen...with the first call to start if De La Rosa/Hudson/whoever starts to pitch bad.

by doublestix on Jan 17, 2007 8:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Will mediation work?

It would not be silly to think that Zack doesn't have a serious mental condition. Before he left camp last year, I saw him in an interview and couldn't help thinking something was not right. His mannerisms and incoherant responses were bizarre. They have still never said what his problem is so you have to think it is a significant Mental Illness like Major Depression or bi-polar disorder (both easily curable thru meds). However, when I saw him in the interview and later learned about his mysterious leave, My first thoughts were Schizephrenia. I hope this isn't the case, but it happens. The common age of onset for a schizoid illness is between the ages of 18 and 25. The stigma is tremendous for mental illnesses, but Schizoid type diseases are especially frightening for the general public which could explain the secrecy.

by butkussayers on Jan 17, 2007 10:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Could be...

...but I don't think so. Schizoid disorders will manifest themselves differently. Of course, we don't know the whole story either. But I do think he has been meeting with a Sports Psychologist since he left spring training. If that's the case, it probably isn't Schitzophrenia b/c that would require serious meds. Sufferers say that the meds they take don't allow them to feel ups and downs due to the control of Serotonin by the meds they take, so they usually try to stay off the meds, which complicates the disorder further.

I shouldn't comment really, b/c I don't really know, but I would say it is probably a social phobia of some sort. I saw a good interview a while back and he talked about some of the issues he has faced. He said he was overly promoted from every level of ball he ever played in, and was still able to do well. But he said he never had any fun. When he was sent to AA Wichita this year, he was finally able to relax and enjoy playing ball. So I hope that this year, since he will be with AG, BB, and few of the others that should make it up, he will be able to relax in KC as well. After all, he did get the Sh*t kicked out of him in 05. It has to be disheartening to go out and throw a two-hitter, yet still lose by 5 b/c your relief blew up. I probably wouldn't pitch too well either.

by ZackAttack on Jan 18, 2007 12:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs