BJ Upton Can't Play 3B, Either

by samjjones on Aug 31, 2006 9:10 AM EDT Comment 25 comments

Upton currently has 5 errors in 21 games, for a .919 fielding percentage. He continually shows that he can make the spectacular play, and has all of the tools, but struggles with consistency. This has been going on for 3+ years now.

What now? Perhaps he was always destined to be a centerfielder, but the D-Rays already have Baldelli/Crawford/Delmon/Dukes(maybe) in the OF. If he is going to be a crappy fielder, should he be a crappy fielder at SS, where at least his bat makes him an above average regular?

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Give him.....

... another chance at SS. Hes got the tools to play there and it sounds like hes no better at 3B so it seems if you are going to try to have him keep working on a position he has all the tools for, put him at the one that would be most valuable. Also, his tools overall fit the SS profile better than the 3B profile.

Zobrist isnt really the future there for the DRays, but they could put Guzman at 3rd and Upton at SS and give them a shot.

Either way at least they are having him work out his defensive issues with the big league club finally instead of wasting his bat in the minors.

by grozzy on Aug 31, 2006 9:19 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

bj has the skills to play SS and just needs confidence.....some of the plays he has made at 3B have been jaw dropping.....

but, like you said, at least he's no longer stunting his growth in the minors

by Wheelhouse on Aug 31, 2006 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re:

How long do you give him to improve at SS? I think Tampa had the same idea, but at some point you have to cut your losses and make a move. The kid's bat is ready to play in MLB now and has been for some time, i'm not sure keeping him in the minors with the hope that the light will go on at SS is the smart move.

by eazyb81 on Aug 31, 2006 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Upton's problem

He seems to have problems with footwork. Making the spectacular play doesn't require good footwork. Just look at Jeter who also has bad footwork and a horrible first step to boot.

I'd say move him to 2B, his athleticism might make up for the poor footwork. Kind of like Weeks.

But he'd probably be horrible turning the DP.

I think you have to move him to center, trade Baldellis, and either move Delmon Young to first (let's face, despite his tools, he looks iffy in the field; he'll be field like Manny in a few years) or trade Dukes for a good young pitcher.

Plus, you have Longoria and Brignac coming up in AA and they profile as 3B or 2B. Hell, Brignac might have to be moved to the outfield too.

by Montreal97 on Aug 31, 2006 9:30 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Forgot about Guzman

The more I think about it, the more I think the Rays have real problems.

They have a ton of good, young players. None of whom, outside of Longoria, rate is even average defensively in the infield.

If they all end up in the outfield, you have a huge surplus of players.

They really have their work cut out for them.

by Montreal97 on Aug 31, 2006 9:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Not a bad problem to have

Especially if they can spin off these excess bats for young pitchers. I mean, they'll have Upton, Guzman, Brignac, Longoria, Cantu, Zobrist, and Bankston essentially fighting for 4 spots, and that doesn't even include the outfielders they have.

by samjjones on Aug 31, 2006 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

But

Other than Zobrist and Longoria, none of these can play the infield -- first base not withstanding.

What happens to Guzman, Breignac, Bankston (who just can't play third and Upton if they turn into nothing more than a collection of outfielders, firstbasemen and DHs?

They won't have enough time to play all of them and consequently won't be able to get equal value for them.

by Montreal97 on Aug 31, 2006 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ok

What are you talking about? Brignac has been improving his defense all year. Actually, he's now got to the point where scouts are saying he could stick at SS, where most assumed he'd have to be moved to third based mainly on his size. Since being promoted to AA he's made 3 errors in 23 games. That's the same amount of errors Longoria has committed in AA.

It's shocking that a prospect who's still learning how to play the game would struggle with something. You assertion that none of these guys can play because they're making mistakes now is crazy. Guys have tools, that develop into skills over time. And example, Barry Larkin made 29 errors in his first full healthy season, and he was one the best defensive SS of his generation this side of Ozzie Smith.

by Tyler on Aug 31, 2006 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

who cares?

who cares about jaw dropping plays? that's like saying give me the fireballer who throws 102, even if he can't get it over the plate and has no secondary pitches. cuz, you know, when he does get one over it's jawdropping.

an occasional great play isn't the job for an IF. IFers have to handle a ton of grounders, and if you're making lots of errors while doing that, you can't handle the position. plain. and. simple.

prospect hounds become like parents making excuses for their kids. we read that B.J.'s offensive problems at AAA were due to his being bored. and his defensive problems are due to his being uptight and lacking confidence. well, aside from being contradictory, really who cares about the excuses? if he can't handle the pressure (or the routine -- or both!) of AAA, how can he handle the pressure (or routine) of the pros (granted he plays in TB, as close to a minor league atmosphere as you'll find, but still....)?

the bottom line is prospects are analyzed on their track record. Upton cannot field consistently. This isn't a passing thing...it's been years, now. It's time to find him a new position -- trade an OFer and make room for him in the OF. Do something but this has gone on too long and it's time for the excuses to stop.

by scooter on Aug 31, 2006 9:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Ahmen

Time to move on. The D-Rays have to start sorting out their players and deciding who can play, who to keep and who to trade . . . and for what.

by Montreal97 on Aug 31, 2006 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Trade him for pitching

This team, when healthy, will be fine offensively without him.

by OneHitWonder on Aug 31, 2006 10:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

wow

heres an idea. Give him a chance for more than 20 games....Jesus effing Christ

by nms on Aug 31, 2006 11:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Thank You!

Upton is a kid doing on-the-job training at the major league level. If he weren't struggling at 3B, THAT would be the story. Twenty-odd games isn't anywhere near enough to know if he will be able to play 3B or not.

by LogicRules on Aug 31, 2006 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

how

about bringing in ozzie smith to work with him. if he can not turn around BJ, they should trade him.

by jbg3004 on Aug 31, 2006 12:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Upton has worked with Ozzie

BJ has worked with Ozzie the past two years.

by samjjones on Aug 31, 2006 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

irony?

i assume the comment on Ozzie was meant as a joke....

by scooter on Aug 31, 2006 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Or maybe

Drag Rey Ordonez out of mothballs? So long as they don't make him Upton's personal hitting instructor...

"What you're forgetting is that you need at least three DWIs before you're considered a 'dominant' drunk driver." (limozeen)

by drjayphd on Aug 31, 2006 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

you people kill me

Watch baseball instead of numbers for a change.

B.J. Upton has saved more than 5-6 balls that most third baseman wouldn't have had a chance to turn into outs.

Therefore these outstanding plays cancel out these errors he has made. I can only recall 1 error that he's made that has been at a critical point of a game or cost the team runs.

Fielding percentage alone doesn't even halfway evaluate a player's defense.

Rays in '08....

by youALREADYknow on Aug 31, 2006 1:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Winner

Fielding is about making as many plays as possible at the highest rate possible.

Upton's rate isn't great right now, but he's average defensively because he makes more plays than almost anyone else.

by limozeen on Aug 31, 2006 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

well

I watched two Drays/Orioles games over the weekend. B.J. definitely was caught flat footed on a line drive that was only two steps to his right. Most 3B would have made that play.

Just as that one play doesn't prove he lacks range, I don't think 4 or 5 highlight style plays prove that he has uber range. We really just need to let some time pass and then analyze the numbers objectively. Rickie Weeks has great athleticism you would expect to translate and I've seen him make some highlight plays at 2B but each of the various defensive ratings systems rate him as having poor range.

Bobby Crosby - a poor man's Adam Everett.

by natsfan2005 on Aug 31, 2006 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Free B.J. Upton

from all this ridiculousness. The guy has been playing 3B for all of what? a half season. Enough already. The guy has made some tremendous plays. To say the jury is still out is an understatement.

"Baseball is 90% mental, the other half is physical" - Yogi Berra

by the pinstripes on Aug 31, 2006 3:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Half Season?

Try... 21 games?

I thought he had been at SS all year in the minors.

by jeromechef on Aug 31, 2006 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

close

they moved him when they traded huff for zobrist at the deadline. then they called him up about a week later. so he did get a tiny bit of time at 3B in durham.

by jpahk on Aug 31, 2006 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I am so tired

of BJ Upton. But anyway, let him try third for a while. I am guessing he fails there for the same reason he failed at short. He cannot throw or make the rotine play with consistency.

If you can't make a routine play at SS, you can't make it at 3rd. Those who move from SS to 3B usually do so because of a lack of range. Range is not BJ's problem as much as it is fielding a ground ball and throwing it to first.

BJ cannot field a ground ball and throw it to first whether it is from SS or 3B.

by stjp5 on Aug 31, 2006 7:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

2B

If you put him at 2B, he won't really have the benefit of making nearly the amount of great plays he can with his arm, and will probably still make all the stupid mistakes. I think I'd give him a full year at SS in the majors with a serious fielding instructor, and see if he improves. It's not like his glove is going to be costing them a pennant.

Rios is the next Juan Gonzales, thats right, I said it.

by KaoticKlown on Aug 31, 2006 11:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs