The future of pitching in leiu of the resergence of hitting

by steve johnson on Aug 16, 2006 5:24 PM EDT Comment 9 comments

I posted this in the Verlander Crystal Ball thread, but think it better to post a new diary with grammer and sentance corrections:

Does anyone notice that perhaps that Pitchers careers are extending themselves a bit? Wheras lots of guys were done by the mid thirties ten or fifteen years ago, many are pushing into their 40s nowdays thanks to improved training regimens and medical proceedures. I heard some pitcher once decry during the "Juiced Ball" era that there was no response to the bigger/stronger phenomenon effecting hitters, but now, I think there is. I think that medical science has benifited pitchers more than hitters Through various proceedures, they can correct muscle and ligiment damage to the point of making the arm better than before.

As far as I know, hitters, otoh, decline due to neurological decay (reflexes slowing, coordination deteriorating) which cannot yet be corrected. In addition, muscles slow while aging, and I don't think the mechanics of hitting can accomodate this as well as pitching can.

In the Future, what's next? Tommy John Surgery used to be a guarantee of loss of several mph off your heat, but now guys are comming back throwing harder. is it possible that more advanced surgeries will allow pitchers to extend their prime even longer, moreso than hitters?

Am I off with this?

The point is, is it not that pretentious to suppose that pitchers of Verlanders generation maintain better effectiveness through age 40?

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In my lifetime I bet a surgical procedure that adds a ligament to the arm or does something to the muscle that adds 5-10 mph to a fastball will be discovered.

What would MLB do? How unfair would this be if it became common for every pitcher to get this done and every pitching staff has an arsenal of guys that throw 95-105 mph? Seems like a fantasy now, and I am certainly no doctor, but I have about 50 years left on this planet and this, or something very similar will happen in my time.

by ScottAZ on Aug 16, 2006 5:56 PM EDT reply actions

How about juice?

I think pitchers are extending their careers by using juice to aid in muscle recovery...

zadster

by zadster on Aug 16, 2006 6:17 PM EDT reply actions

Interesting

but I don't think the playing field is quite that tipped. Laser surgery is probably the best arguement that hitters are equal benefactors of modern meds. Where would the careers of Griffey and Ventura gone should they not been able to do cutting edge surgery to fix injuries? Hitters like Javier Herrera also have had TJ surgery.

by slurve on Aug 16, 2006 6:19 PM EDT reply actions

LOL

...think it better to post a new diary with grammer and sentance corrections

this is too good. was that deliberate? three errors in the title and two more in the introductory line about posting a corrected version... nice. (sorry in advance if this wasn't intentional--it's totally not my place to make fun of somebody else's grammar or spelling.)

as to the actual content of your post, i think it's an urban legend (or just a misunderstanding) which causes people to think that pitchers come back from TJ throwing harder than ever. it's more that they are generally pitching without pain and with clean mechanics for the first time in years, and on top of that they can rest and rehab their arm for the better part of a year. but the surgery itself doesn't actually give you any velocity you didn't already have in you. a healthy pitcher, for instance, wouldn't benefit in the least from having TJ (although the year of rest and rehab might help).

by jpahk on Aug 16, 2006 6:40 PM EDT reply actions

Isn't it true

Isn't it true that with all the rehab you do on whatever body part it is to come back from surgery, that all the other parts of the arm or leg would end up stronger than before? I don't think it's completely out of the question that 1 or MPH gets added when you factor in that sort of thing.

Rios is the next Juan Gonzales, thats right, I said it.

by KaoticKlown on Aug 16, 2006 9:23 PM EDT reply actions

Pitcher Longevity

I personally think that we still will not see pitchers pitching into their forties. I think it is rare to find a pitcher pitch that long. I do think that you have some relievers that are able to do it, plus a group of starters that prolong their careers by moving to relief. Still, pitching takes a tremendous toll on the arm which increases the chance of injury. I also think that some guys just aren't able to be good pitchers when they lose their stuff. In fact, I would say that fewer pitchers are pitching longer than in the past. Most young pitchers last about 6-8 years and then they start to lose their effectiveness. For example: Pat Hentgen, Bret Saberhagen, Russ Ortiz, Mike Hampton, Matt Morris, Mark Mulder, etc. Granted, most of these guys have/had injury issues, but that comes with the territory of being a pitcher.

Does anybody else agree that pitchers just don't last that long? I personally think the average pitcher has only 6-8 years of true effectiveness. Thoughts?

by Bib12 on Aug 17, 2006 3:50 PM EDT reply actions

Attrition

Attrition due to injury to young pitchers is huge. Of course the average pitching career is longer now than in the past. Just think of all the pitchers who have had TJ. Every single one of them would be done the moment that ligament snapped. Instead, many of them are able to continue their careers for years, sometimes in spectacular fashion.

Take Eric Gagne, for instance. He may be done now, and he may have used other techniques to enhance his career besides TJ, but were it not for TJ, he never would have had a major league career at all.

by DrBGiantsfan on Aug 17, 2006 9:12 PM EDT reply actions

1 in 9

A few years back, that was the number of major league pitchers who'd gone through TJ surgery.

by Yakker on Aug 17, 2006 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions

old pitching?

Great thread, but I'm not sure I agree with one of the original concepts here - that there are somehow more good old pitchers than before. I do think modern sports medicine has created a bigger pool of pitchers who stay healthy enough to compete into their late 30s, early 40s. But I also think there's always been a type of pitcher who has done well at that age. Neikro, Whitey Ford, Gaylord Perry... I think in every five-year window over the past 40 years you could find a solid pitcher who was, say, 38 or older. I'm gonna look stuff up and get back on this, but it's a cool argument.

by mouch on Aug 18, 2006 12:56 AM EDT reply actions