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Around SBN: Terry Collins, David Wright, And The Mets/Brewers Kerfuffle

Minor League Affiliation Question....

Hi All:

   I just returned from a five day trip across the AA and AAA teams through the Mid-South.  I saw five games in five days:

Huntsville Stars vs. Chatanooga Lookouts
Memphis Redbirds vs. Alberqueue Isotopes
Nashville Sounds vs. Memphis Redbirds
Tennessee Smokies vs. West Tenn Diamond Jaxx
Nashville Sounds vs. Memphis Redbirds.  

I was wondering why minor league teams switch affiliations so often.  It seemed to me looking at the walls that the Tennessee Smokies, which are really just outside Knoxville, have switched affiliations three times in the past five years: Toronto, St. Louis and now the Diamond Backs.  Who generally is to blame for the switch: the local organization or the parent club?  Is based mainly on revenue/attendence or other reasons?  

Being a St. Louis fan, I'm quite familar with Branch Rickey's design of the minor system to foster fan interest in the parent club.  It really seems that we have gotten away from that with some clubs.  Really, the Marlins AAA team based in New Mexico?  

Any thoughts on the best player that I might have caught as well would be appreciated.  I read through the comments here, on Rotowire, and on baseballhq, but would like more input.  Since I recently read Last Best League, I was excited to see Jamie D'Antona.  A guy who I read nothing about coming into the game is the Smokies' second baseman Jerry Gill.  His numbers seemed pretty good for a second sacker, similar to D'Antona.  Any thoughts on him?

Disappointed that we didn't get to see Homer Bailer in our one shot, but hopefully we will be able to say we say saw some future stars back when they were in the minors.  Don't think any of them will be from that Memphis team though.  
   

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Marlins...
It is a bit ridiculous that the Marlins have their AAA team in the PCL, given how weary they are of expenses and such. I guess the next logical step would be to move Spring training to Arizona...

by MetfanBren on Jul 4, 2006 12:36 AM EDT reply actions  

i wonder about this myself
as a cub fan growing up in illinois, it sure was convenient to have minor league affiliates in rockford, peoria, and des moines. now the cubs have affiliates in places like daytona and west tennessee. i don't get it.

by jamie @ Minor League Ball on Jul 4, 2006 10:42 AM EDT reply actions  

I don't know what happened with the Smokies
affiliation with Toronto, but I believe their affiliation with St. Louis was always considered a short term hookup until they could find something better.

IIRC, the Cardinals were put in a bad situation after their decades-old relationship with their AA affilliate, the Arkansas Travelers, switched to the Angels, after the Cardinals had threatened to end the affiliation if the Travelers didn't build a new stadium. It seems like the Cardinals then signed a short term deal with a team in NJ?, and then a slightly longer one with the Smokies, which ended when the Cardinals bought the El Paso Diablos and moved them to Springfield, MO.

by cardrock on Jul 4, 2006 3:53 PM EDT reply actions  

It's based on a number of factors!
Hello everyone,

Please excuse the length of this post; I hope the information you find here is informative and useful. :-)

It's really based on a number of factors - not just the geographical proximity to the ML team, though that is an important reason, but also if the ML team has a good development track record and can consistently put good-quality players on their affiliated teams so that they can perform well and draw more fans to their games.

For instance, as far as I know, the Rochester Red Wings broke off their long relationship with Baltimore and became a Twins' affiliate because Minnesota's track record for their Minor League teams and their development system was much better than Baltimore's.

Rochester got tired of putting poor W-L teams on the field year after year and decided not to renew with Baltimore when they had an opportunity to join up with another team like Minnesota.  

As a result, Baltimore had to join up with Ottawa, who lost Montreal as their parent club when the Expos became the Nationals (which got New Orleans to become their new AAA affiliate.)  Ottawa is much farther away from Baltimore than Rochester was, so that became a disadvantage geographically for calling up AAA prospects to the big league club.

That's just one example and reason why affiliates aren't close to their parent clubs.  Of course, I think just about every parent club would want their affiliates to be close to the parent club, but it's not always possible.

Another reason can be because of the leagues; take the Indians for instance.  Over the last 5-10 years, they have really brought most of their affiliates in close to Cleveland:

From Watertown, NY to Youngstown-Niles, OH (Mahoning Valley Scrappers of the NY-Penn League)

From Columbus, GA to Eastlake, OH (Lake County Captains of the South Atlantic League)

From Charlotte, NC to Buffalo, NY (Buffalo Bisons of the International League)

Even the Canton-Akron Indians were based in Canton, but were moved up to Akron and became the Akron Aeros of the Eastern League (partly because the stadium there became out-of-date and Canton was reluctant or unable to upgrade it to the Indians' wishes, while Akron was willing to oblige.)

However, the Indians still have the Kinston Indians of the Carolina League and the Burlington Indians of the Appalachian League, not to mention the new Gulf Coast League Indians in Winter Haven, Florida.

Obviously, those affiliates aren't that close to Cleveland, but the Indians either have the choice of the Carolina League or the California League for High-A; the Carolina League is much closer than the California League (something the D-Rays know about with their High-A Bakersfield team playing in the Cal League and Bakersfield, CA being so far away from Tampa, FL.)  Therefore, the Indians choose to have an affiliate in High-A and in the Carolina League.  

The Indians originally chose to have only an Appalachian League affiliate because it was closer than the Gulf Coast League or the Arizona League, but because their Burlington club was always overmatched by other clubs because the Indians would put 17-19-year olds on its roster, compared to many other organizations stacking 20-22-year olds on their affiliated App. League clubs, the Indians chose to start a GCL Indians club and put their very young prospects on it, in a league that is mostly made up of 17-19-year olds, while diverting some of their college-aged prospects away from the NY-Penn Mahoning Valley Scrappers club onto the Burlington club.

It has made a difference in Burlington's W-L record already, 8-6, second in the Appl. League East to Pulaski (Twins affiliate,) as they have already beaten the seemingly perennial power Danville Braves twice in this young season, 11-3 in their last encounter, scoring 11 runs in the final 2 innings, plus are one game better than them in the Appl. League standings.

So, as you can see, it varies on a wide range of factors, from the affiliated club wanting better ballclubs, forcing changes, to having to go with some affiliate that is in a certain league because it's the closest to the ML city in terms of that skill level with nothing else being closer in terms of the same skill level.

These are just some reasons; others like disagreements over stadium improvements and such are others.  

Hopefully, this post has been helpful in illuminating why some affiliates are so far away from their parent clubs. :-)

Just my 5 cents.

Take care and have a great day!

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on Jul 5, 2006 3:36 AM EDT reply actions  

Thanks...
That's exactly the kind of answer I was looking for.  We banded about some of those reasons, but thanks for refining it down to a clear statement.  

The Tennessee Smokies park is quite nice and easy to get to; don't let the Kodak, TN address confuse you.  Its on the eastern outskirt of Knoxville, TN at the same exit of Gatlinburg and Dollywood.  The park is right off the exit ramp and seems really new.  The facade is made out of stacked limestone, so it has a lodge feel to it.  

by Brock20 on Jul 5, 2006 10:31 AM EDT reply actions  

You're welcome - sounds quite nice!
Hello brock20,

You're welcome - glad I could help! :-)

The Tennessee Smokies ballpark sounds quite nice, especially with the limestone and lodge feel.

I know the Indians' Kinston affiliate just remodeled their ballpark, Grainger Stadium, a few years ago.  Even though it's an older park, it really is a nice atmosphere and experience for the fans from what I hear.

The Akron Aeros ballpark, Canal Park, has been around since the Aeros came into existence in 1997; from what I have seen of it, it's also a great Minor League park, including the clubhouses - I remember when it was built, the Aeros players and their opponents were saying that most Minor League parks didn't have the amenities that Canal Park did.

As I recall, Canal Park was modeled after the Indians' Jacobs Field, so it's almost like a miniature, AA-version of it.  

Lake County's Classic Park got similar accolades of having amenities that most Low-A ballparks didn't have (that park came into existence when the Captains did in 2001.)  

So, the ballpark has much to do with whether a ML team wants to stay with an affiliate, just as much as the quality of the players and the relationship with the ML organization will determine whether a Minor League team wants to remain affiliated with a certain ML organization.

Again, I'm glad my answer was informative and helpful. :-)

Take care and have a great day!

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on Jul 6, 2006 2:08 AM EDT reply actions  

Mets & Norfolk...
There are a lot of rumors going around that the Mets and Norfolk will be parting ways after the season. I don't know the exact numbers, but counting Tidewater that affiliation has been going for a very long time...

I've heard that the Mets want to move into one of the Pennsylvania towns, bringing AA (Binghamton), AAA, and the major league team closer together. They've been sending players all over the place the last year or so, and any real help is a long way off, so it might not be a bad idea. It would still be sad to see such a long relationship with the Norfolk/Tidewater area end though...

by MetfanBren on Jul 6, 2006 6:00 PM EDT reply actions  

What's the likeliest possibility?
Hello MetfanBren,

Very interesting - what's the likeliest place they are looking to move to?  I take it it's a AAA affiliate they are looking for in Pennsylvania?

The only one I can think of that is a AAA affiliate is Scranton Wilkes-Barre (Philadelphia's affiliate.)  Is that who they are going for or is there some other city in Pennsylvania that can support a AAA club?  

I know Altoona, Erie, and Reading are homes for AA teams (Pirates, Tigers, and Phillies, respectively,) but if I recall correctly, there is only one AAA team located in Pennsylvania - is that the one the Mets are looking at for their new AAA affiliate or are they thinking of starting a new AAA franchise?

Take care and have a great day! :-)

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on Jul 7, 2006 2:16 AM EDT reply actions  

Allentown..
It's all rumors and such, but word is that the Phillies are moving to Allentown from Scranton/Wilkes Bare after the season. If the Mets moved in after them they'd have AA and AAA teams two hours apart on I-81. I don't know the area very well other than the obvious, but from that point of view it makes sense for the Mets. Norfolk isn't exactly New Mexico, but they did have to send a limo to get Milledge up in time for a game earlier in the season...

Norfolk is also said to be unhappy with how the Met front office is running things, and there's a supposed lack of communication between the two. I would think they'd be more concerned about the fans having to endure the likes of Michael Tucker, Jose Awfullman, and of course the infamous Jose Lima than all that technical stuff . Who knows though, maybe David Wright will perform a miracle and keep his hometown team in Met hands? We expect those kinds of things from him now! lol.

by MetfanBren on Jul 7, 2006 2:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks for letting me know! :-)
Hello MetfanBren,

Thanks for letting me know - I had no idea about Allentown becoming a AAA franchise, but I figured there had to be another city in Pennsylvania that could support a AAA franchise if the Mets were considering moving somewhere into Pennsylvania.  That explains a lot about how the Mets will move into Pennsylvania with a AAA team.  

Yes, I can see why the Mets are trying to bring their Minor League affiliates even closer to their "home base"; as I mentioned, the Indians have done that with all, but their Carolina affiliates and new Gulf Coast League affiliate, and that's mostly because those are the closest options for those levels of the Minors.

Otherwise, Buffalo is on I-90 East from Cleveland, Akron is on I-77 South from Cleveland, Lake County is on I-90/Rt. 2 East from Cleveland, and Mahoning Valley is on I-80 East and Rt. 11 South from Cleveland, so they are all within easy driving distance from Cleveland, though only Buffalo, and occasionally, Akron prospects directly come up to Cleveland, but it certainly makes it easier for the FO to check on their highly-regarded prospects more easily and see them in person more often.

Just my 2 cents.

Again, thanks for the info. - greatly appreciated! :-)

Take care and have a great day!

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on Jul 13, 2006 1:03 AM EDT reply actions  

Buffalo...
They've always been a great AAA city. If there were any justice in Baseball they would have had a team a while ago. I know people use the weather as an excuse, but an Indian fan should know this better than anyone. Buffalo's climate is the same as Cleveland, and the last time I checked Baseball was doing pretty well there..

They could've moved the Expos there, which would've allowed the fans relatively easy access to the team should they still want to follow it. It's not suprising that they weren't even considered though, given the way MLB runs things...

by MetfanBren on Jul 14, 2006 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

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