Jason Hirsh....WOW

by novaoakland on Jun 25, 2006 11:11 PM EDT Comment 23 comments

May 1, 2006 reading the Prospect Hot Sheet on BA they let Jason Hirsh have it. (Rightfully so)

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/hotsheet/261181.html

At that point he had given up -- 20 runs on 26 hits in 24 innings ---

What has he done since?

74 IP and only 8 Earned Runs.

His full year stats include a 2.56 ERA in the hitter friendly PCL.
http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Jason%20Hirsh&pos=P&sid=milb&a mp;t=p_pbp&pid=444865

Yet as I never see his name mentioned with the likes of: Pelfry, Billingesly or any of the other "elite" prospects.

Not advocating that he belongs in that group but my question is why not?

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My guess...

Would be the whole 20 runs in 24 IP thing...

God rested one day out of 7, Felix rests 4 out of 5.

by CrimsonLiederhosen on Jun 25, 2006 11:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yep

That and he only has a 2-1 K/BB ratio, although he's only given up 4 HR the entire year (and I assume most of those came in those first 24 innings)

I'd be interested to see his stats before and after those 24 innings, other than the 8 runs.

Has anyone seen him pitch in person? If I remember his scouting reports correctly, he has a pretty heavy sinker?

by Jgaztambide on Jun 25, 2006 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

subject

who would you rather have?

pitcher A: 3 - 4 2.70 era 46.2 ip 43 hits 5 hr's 25 bb 43 k's

pitcher b: 8 - 2 2.56 era 98 ip 76 hits 4 hr's 42 bb 84 k's

by Josh on Jun 26, 2006 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Keeping in mind

League context - the rather obvious Pitcher A posted his stats in the International League, while Pitcher B is in the PCL.

Not that I'm suggesting that I think more of Pitcher B than Pitcher A or vice versa.

by mrkupe on Jun 26, 2006 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hmm

Probably pitcher B, assuming there's not a big difference in their ballparks or league or anything like that. Who is pitcher A?

Just to line up their rates:

K/9: 8.3 7.71
BB/9: 4.87 3.85
K/BB: 1.72 2.00
HR/9: .97 .36

Yeah, definately pitcher B (though clearly earlier seasons are important). The only advantage pitcher A has is in K-rate, but the Walks are worrisome. I'm gonna assume pitcher A is Lester (and obviously pitcher B is Hirsh). Is that right?

by Jgaztambide on Jun 26, 2006 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

subject

correct

I was to lazy to post park ratings and all that crap. I was looking to point out the walks and ask the question why Lester gets love and Hirsh get slammed for his control issues.

They both got off to similar starts this year as well. If someone is going to discount Hirsh for his start shouldn't the same be done for Lester?

by Josh on Jun 26, 2006 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Difference

"I was looking to point out the walks and ask the question why Lester gets love and Hirsh get slammed for his control issues.

They both got off to similar starts this year as well. If someone is going to discount Hirsh for his start shouldn't the same be done for Lester?"

I know a lot of people were skeptical of Hirsh's season last year, since it essentially came out of nowhere, so his early-season performance was a good vindicator of those worries (I wasn't one of them). I don't think there was as much doubt about Lester's season, on the other hand.

I don't remember seeing that much criticism towards Hirsh, though. Apathy maybe, but not really criticism.

by Jgaztambide on Jun 26, 2006 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

lol

"Would be the whole 20 runs in 24 IP thing..."

I know I put a lot of stock in those first 24 innings he pitched this year. My guess is it will haunt him for his career. Last years numbers and what he has done since last year are nothing but a mirage.

I seem to remember a certain Boston prospect got off to a similar start as Hirsh and I'm betting you two are more then happy to drop his name into the top 10 pitchers. I seen one guy calling him a top 2 pitching prospect in baseball.

by Josh on Jun 26, 2006 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He doesn't have the...

sexy stuff like those guys mentioned above. He's more like recent callup Sowers in that he won't K a lot of guys but he'll win games with his control and poise.

by Havok1517 on Jun 26, 2006 7:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

He doesn't?

On Sowers and Hirsh:

One is a 6'1" lefty who doesn't throw very hard, doesn't strike out a lot of guys, and relies on his superior command and pitching IQ to win games.

One is a 6'8" righty who doesn't have a problem clocking in the 90s, touching 98 in the past, Ks a pretty solid number of guys, and has been rather inconsistent with his control throughout his minor league career.

Yeah, I can see why you would compare the two.

Hirsh did get bombed pretty bad early on, but he's definitely been stepping it up lately and deserves a lot more attention than he's been getting. While the track record for tall pitchers isn't exactly sparkling in the majors and Hirsh may have some of those same control issues that have undone some of those guys, his performance against a high level of competition cannot be ignored. I was very surprised at the lack of mention that he got in the Top 10 pitchers thread . . .he looks like a definite Top 10 guy at this point to me.

by mrkupe on Jun 26, 2006 8:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry

All the scouting reports I've read have Hirsh in the 91-93mph range. Maybe the info I read was wrong. On a side note, size doesn't necessarily mean velocity (ex BIlly Wagner).

by Havok1517 on Jun 26, 2006 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Um

What I said: "One is a 6'8" righty who doesn't have a problem clocking in the 90s, touching 98 in the past"

91-93 WOULD be the 90s you know. The 98 figure is something I got from BA and while he doesn't sit there, it doesn't seem like a stretch that he's gotten his fastball that high.

I'm confused where you got the impression that I said that size means velocity. Sowers is on the shorter side for pithcers and doesn't throw hard. Hirsh is very tall even for a pitcher and throws pretty hard. I didn't say anything more than that.

by mrkupe on Jun 26, 2006 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well

I was just making a generalization based on the whole 6'8 & 6'1 comparison. Both Hirsh & Sowers pitch in the 90-93 range, right now anyways. Hirsh has 3 pitches (fastball, slider, and change) while Sowers has a fastball, slider, curve, changeup. I think they'll be very similar in production.

by Havok1517 on Jun 26, 2006 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Response

Sowers doesn't pitch 90-93. He's a guy who's going to sit high 80s for the most part.

He's a finesse lefty . . .perhaps the best finesse pitcher in the minors this year, but a finesse pitcher nonetheless. His stuff definitely is not as good as Hirsh's.

by mrkupe on Jun 26, 2006 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I got...

(85-92 here)
http://216.109.125.130/search/cache?p=jeremy+sowers+fastball+mph&fr=FP-tab-web-t&toggle=1&am p;ei=UTF-8&u=www.baseballamerica.com/today/minors/050330dish.html&w=jeremy+sowers+fastball+m ph&d=BI0efTmtMvbD&icp=1&.intl=us

(93 mph)

http://reds.enquirer.com/2001/06/06/red_reds_draft_high.html

by Havok1517 on Jun 27, 2006 2:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Here is 1 such trusted source

http://www.minorleagueball.com/story/2006/2/13/234244/088

:-)

Sickels has him in the 90-93 MPH range. Who's wrong???

by Havok1517 on Jun 26, 2006 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wrong

They both could easily be right. The first guy was hitting against him, so I doubt he made it up. It's not uncommon for guys to lose a litte velocity as they get older. Especially coming from College, where you often get 6-7 days rest in between starts, to a 5 day rotation.

"Chuck Lamar, you're fired"- Stuart Sternburg.

by Tyler on Jun 26, 2006 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs