Felix

by FRANCHISEv2 on May 31, 2006 2:33 PM EDT

I went to his first start last year in Detroit and wrote the following to a friend:

He is obviously pretty good; I was impressed in some ways and in
others disappointed. I had to remind myself that this is a 19 year
old kid out there, not a polished college guy. The first inning he
was really up and down, very poor command. I couldn't believe how
much time he took between pitches; I was hoping that it wasn't part of
his normal routine. Once the second inning hit, he was more of what I
had envisioned he would be like. Got the ball from the catcher and
was locked in. He is mostly arms/shoulder thrower; those big guys
must have difficulty stretching out. That is what I like a lot about
Oswalt/Bonderman that there release point is as extended as they can
get their body to home plate, really using there legs. Felix uses his
legs more so than Carlos Zambrano, but there are some similarities
between the 2. Maybe it is because I have seen Z/Wood/Prior up close,
but he really was like a cross between Wood/Big Z. Some of that is
good, but in a long term sense I have worries. His lack of command
comes from this extreme fall off the mound to the left, very much like
Wood. It is hard to imagine someone who has been throwing like this
from such a young age not developing some kind of problems in his arm
shoulder with how much stress he uses throwing. Felix throws serious
gas; it was really impressive how much power he generates from his
body not using a huge Nolan Ryan leg kick. His curve/off speed
pitches are as good as advertised as well. All in all, he is a very
special talent, with time if he can evolve his motion I would expect
him to become a major star player. Depending on how the M's use him
this year I think he will be very valuable. In the second inning it
was a treat to watch Mags go to battle with him and end up striking
out. Mags is one of my favorites (no duh?!?) and he fouled off some
good pitches before missing badly on a hard breaking curve. Going in
I was sort of expecting Prior, I'm sure I have told you I sat about 15
rows up visitors side dug out for his first start at Wrigley. He
faced Oswalt that day, one of my favorite memories for a game that I
attended. I had read so much about Prior going into the game, and
seeing him that day blew my mind away. Felix was nowhere near that
level, but Prior was 3 years older.

It was ironic reading this quote from Bustor Olney for ESPN last month:

"Watched a lot of Sunday's game and was taken aback by the mechanics of Felix Hernandez -- how often he falls off to the first base side of the mound after throwing the ball. The first name that pops into your head when you see this: Kerry Wood, who has broken down repeatedly in his career, possibly because of his own awkward mechanics."

The reason why I bring this up at all is because watching him today (this is his first start I have watched in a month or so) is that I think the M's are trying to correct his motion more direct to home plate and it appears to have straightened out his stuff just a tad. I have no bias one way or the other toward him so I don't want this to become a huge flame war that killed an interesting thread on Verlander/Liriano/Felix. I was going to post on it since I have seen Liriano/Felix and Cain up close but thought maybe a new thread could be started on it instead where I could post pictures.

Back to Felix.....anyone else notice a difference in how he falls off the mound from last season to this one? He seems to come forward more toward the plate instead of falling to 1b like Wood does.

Tweet Comment 47 comments | 0 recs |

Do you like this story?

Comments

Haven't noticed

but its a good report, thanks for the post.

The reason for my response is more about Cain. You said you have seen him up close. I would love to hear your impressions about him in this thread, or a new one. Thanks.

by cincyinco on May 31, 2006 4:04 PM EDT reply actions

Cain

First, in no way am I claiming to be an expert or a scout or anything but I have gone to a lot of baseball games and watch a lot of games on the ticket. I just really enjoy the game a lot and have been furtunate to be able to attend a lot of games around the country. These are just my opinions and I hope it generates views for people to disagree with or discuss.

I saw Cain go against Brandon Webb in San Francisco. Webb is so under rated because of his lack of sex appeal but no one got a good swing on him all day and his ball really bores down hard on hitters as it approaches the plate. I guess that is a different post my thoughts on him.

Cain is a pretty big guy with big shoulders and upper trunk. When he was going good that day (which was for most of the game) his mechanics are really sound. He has a tight wind up and his motion is toward the hitter. He seemed to have these moments of being lost on the mound when he got rattled. Estrada had maybe the best game of his career and really tagged Cain but outside of him he was really solid. Good action on his pitches and his fastball was in the mid 90's but I think it sat mostly in the 93/94 range. The way he could so suddenly loose his composure out there is familiar of so many guys when they are young but he was a lot like Ben Sheets out there to me for his mound presence with his big body. I could see Cain being the one who takes a few years like Sheets as well where he learns his craft and takes off in his mid 20's. He moves really well and fielded his position pretty well that day too.

While I'm remembering this trip to S.F. it was my second time seeing Peavy (first time in Milwaukee) and that guy is a tough little nail out there. He seems to dare hitters to swing and comes off super cocky and very high strung. He is pretty bad ass to see, the movement on his stuff is impressive and he can dial it up. I gained an appreciation for Brian Giles that trip as well. Not that I didn't know he is a great hitter/on base guy but he plays the game mentally really well. He put on a clinic for hit and run drawing the SS to cover 2B and is aware of the game around him. Greene is also a treat to watch field his position too. He is so fluid gobbling up the ball and flinging it to 1B in one motion.

Upcoming games that I hope people might be interested in hearing about are:
Brewers vs. Nationals 6/3
White Sox vs Tigers 6/7*
Justin Upton visits Beloit 6/10
Brewers @ Giants July 17-19

*I'm going to try making Verlander in Chicago next week and does anyone know if the Tigers are going to change up the rotation or will he go as scheduled Wendsday? I want to get tickets as soon as I can to get ideal seats.

by FRANCHISEv2 on May 31, 2006 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions

Thanks

a ton for this, I really enjoyed your write ups on this diary... Keep em comin. Scout or no scout, I appreciate it, because I dont get to travel much - and I don't get to see all these guys all that much. Particularly AL players.

by cincyinco on May 31, 2006 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions

Hes ONLY 20 years old!

He looked great today until the 5th inning and against the Twins after the Mauer HR he was terrific. I hate people who keep saying whats wrong with Felix. He's 20 years old and hes going through growing pains. His stuff is alot better then Wood. Please don't compare Hernandez to Wood. Oh and the problem with Cubs pitchers is the man behind them (Dusty Baker) He's ruined pitchers and he's going to continue. He's going to be better the Wood. He's only 20 OH and he's going to pitch a hell of alot more then Prior and Wood! You can thank Mr. Baker for all of that. I am surprised the stupid management in Chicago still keeps Baker don't be surprised if Zambrano is the next one to go down.

by nate050904 on May 31, 2006 4:43 PM EDT reply actions

chill out dude

I'm not dissing on Felix at all, I'm a big fan of what he should be able to do.

Remember when Wood was 21 years old and striking out 20 batters a game? He was the raging hype and his stuff was/is still amazing.

Just as an observation, seeing both of them that there was similarities in there motion in my opinion.

by FRANCHISEv2 on May 31, 2006 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions

Let's not

get too carried away here. Wood is filthy and has among the best stuff in the league when healthy. I like Felix's fastball a tad better, but Wood's slider and curveball are 2 of the best pitches you will ever see. His change-up is also way ahead of Felix's. Other than that I agree, let Felix be, he'll be fine.

"Second guessers are guys that could have never gotten it right the first time." - Tommy Lasorda (for guys that have no other defense for their actions.)

by slurve on May 31, 2006 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions

Agreed

he's only 20..

But to some, this guy was so so hyped, that it was almost as if he was guaranteed success.

This just goes to show that nothing is guaranteed in baseball. Thats why they play the game.

One more thing, lets not go overboard and claim Felix will be better than Wood. He could just as easily have injuries derail his career. You just don't know. No one knows. No one has the magic crystal ball.

Felix is good, he'll figure it out. Patience everyone. And lets pray he doesn't get hurt, and we all get to watch a guy who's projected to be perhaps a once in a generation type pitcher.

by cincyinco on May 31, 2006 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions

Seattle

It's not like the M's have had the best luck with devloping young talent, pitching or hitting, recently either.

God rested one day out of 7, Felix rests 4 out of 5.

by CrimsonLiederhosen on May 31, 2006 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions

hmm

I didn't know it was Baker that ruined him. I thought his arm was fairly cooked prior to the callup. And his motions are similar. I think Wade Miller had the same problem where it generated lots of movement but destroys the shoulder. And look at him now.

by pedrophile on May 31, 2006 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions

Baker

didn't cook his arm. His HS coach did. Besides that, Don Baylor was his coach when he had TJ. Baker's not off the hook though - he continued to ride him hard - even when he was coming off setbacks after the TJ.

"Second guessers are guys that could have never gotten it right the first time." - Tommy Lasorda (for guys that have no other defense for their actions.)

by slurve on May 31, 2006 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions

Olney is only about a year behind this site.....

Someone posted still photos of Felix on here and we all talked about his shoulder issues. It was obvious then he has mechnical "cleaning up" to do.

by HuskerBob on May 31, 2006 4:47 PM EDT reply actions

shoot

Bob, I thought you were all over his mechanics 2 years ago :P

by cincyinco on May 31, 2006 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions

the minute

u say any type of negative thing about Felix.,.. er excuse me "King Felix" to the Seatle Fans on here u get bombared with he's the best pitcher ever... it's (and i quote from the other thread) "inevitable"

so beware even discussing his mechanical flaws it will trigger them.

by High Heater on May 31, 2006 5:15 PM EDT reply actions

No

No, I agree he has mechanical issues they are there thats part of the growing pains young pitchers face. He'll be fine. He's a good one just will take time for him to fulfil his promise. I just hate those people out there that are already calling this kid a bust.

by nate050904 on May 31, 2006 5:43 PM EDT reply actions

Not a bust.

No where in his original post did he call Felix a bust. He simply said he falls off to the first base side like Wood does.

If anything, he FRANCHISE is saying that it looks like F-Her is trying to correct that problem. Let the man have his opinion before you start saying you hate him for saying "Whats wrong with Felix".

by Boxkutter on May 31, 2006 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions

On that same token

I get sick of all those people that are calling Felix a sure fire thing.

Nothing is a sure thing. Nothing. Even more so with pitchers.

I agree everyone needs to relax and excersize some patience. They need to do the same with Matt Cain. These guys are extremely young, and are learning the game.

by cincyinco on May 31, 2006 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions

Amen

There are no sure things (except Jonathan papelbon in the 9th. Sorry, had to say it).

but seriously, I can't speak for anyone else but the more hype I hear about Felix... well, i was excited about the kid at first, now I'm almost rooting for him to fail jsut because I'm so sick of all the Felix Fellatio.

God rested one day out of 7, Felix rests 4 out of 5.

by CrimsonLiederhosen on May 31, 2006 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions

Felix

Seems to me a very high percentage of the base runners allowed by Felix are scoring...

5/21 SDP 6.0IP 7H 3BB 7ER
5/26 @MIN 7.0IP 5H 1BB 3ER
5/31 @TEX 6.0IP 7H 1BB 5ER

is he having any problems pitching from the stretch?

"I may not be a class act, but I'm an American." Ron Artest on wanting to play for the Olympic team

by natsfan2005 @ Minor League Ball on May 31, 2006 7:53 PM EDT reply actions

not clutch

His clutch pitching has been terrible this season.
I'm guessing it comes from the M's fastball first tendencies.

There is no way guys like Gary Matthews can crush his breaking pitches for grand slams.

If Felix would start using his breaking pitches more in clutch sitations, his ERA would drop.

Rays in '08....

by youALREADYknow on May 31, 2006 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions

or

maybe he could locate his breaking pitches for strikes - then he wouldn't have to throw all fastballs ;)

why is it the pitch calling? He is just pitching terrible.

by pedrophile on May 31, 2006 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions

It IS the pitch calling

Read the link to the Hardball Times article on Felix... charted every single pitch of his last 5 starts, and there's pretty definitive truth.

by Fett42 @ Minor League Ball on Jun 1, 2006 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions

hmmm

so that makes it a fact? I've seen the pitch stats for the whole season for Felix.

How about another interpretation on your FACTS? Maybe in the first inning where he throws mostly fastballs they actually have a reason? Maybe he can't get his breaking balls over the frickin plate and so they are forced to go with the fastball? Did you think of that?

It's not his catcher, his manager, his mother, his dog, or his girlfriends fault. Maybe, just maybe, someone here will admit Felix is pitching like shit.

by pedrophile on Jun 2, 2006 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions

Keep in mind

That Seatle doesnt allow him to throw alot of breaking pitches. It's part of babying him right now. I dont mind I own him in a dynasty league. I dont want them to ruin him ala Mark Prior/Kerry Wood

by nate050904 on May 31, 2006 8:22 PM EDT reply actions

Wouldnt call Prior "ruined"

he has only been in the league about 4 years now (This year will be his 5th).

In that time, I think this is only his second pitching related injury that should cause concern. He had the late start last year too which was the first. His other injuries are non-preventable types of injuries.

Taking a batted ball off the elbow and having it broken is not realy an "injury-prone" type of injury. Neither was the spill he took that injuried his shoulder a couple years ago.

I would say he is far from "ruined". I would be more concerned with his lack of domination last year than his injuries. He has seemed very mediocre in his time out there. This could possibly be due to the amount of time he has missed with his injuries. Hasnt let him get into a groove.

We'll see though, he is scheduled to make his second start for Peoria Friday, then another two or three rehab starts is likely before he gets the nod by the Cubs (and hopefully Dusty is gone by then, he was recently given the dreaded "vote of confidence" by upper management lol).

by Boxkutter on May 31, 2006 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions

Just a thought...he's struggling

But he's 20.

Pitchers' bodies change alot when they are 20. His stats last year cannot be denied. Two-thirds of the balls hit on the ground, great intro as a 19 year old. I bought the ticket just so I could watch his starts. I am a believer.

But how many guys are draft day hero's that cannot repeat the velocity/movement as they get into their 20's? Maybe he's got a little weakness somewhere in that shoulder. Obviously his stuff has changed, and his mechanics. Maybe's he's pitching at 100% effort rather than the 90% effort he used to get that location and movement? Maybe he's just a little mentally tight because now he's the 'King' and not just the 'prospect'....

He's not hurt yet, at least not officially. I don't buy that the management is over there in the dugout giving the catcher signs counting breaking balls. It sounds cute but it's not true. Felix is throwing what he wants; its just not doing what he's used to. I also think the Johjima the catcher sucks at calling and receiving the ball, but that's just my call from watching the games from the internet. If builders framed houses like he frames pitches we'd all live in caves.

Let's pray he's not hurt and hope he works this out a bit. Either he spends time of the DL (very bad) or he rebounds and ends up with a ERA of about 4.10 (a sad development), but not too bad for a 20 year old in the major leagues.

"Strikeouts are good...groundballs are better. Home runs are okay...but walks SUCK!" Mike Caldwell

by Torncuff on May 31, 2006 9:00 PM EDT reply actions

His Slider

I dont think he's allowed to throw one of his pitches I can't remember which one it is. Hes not allowed to throw it alot atleast. I believe it's his slider.

by nate050904 on May 31, 2006 9:24 PM EDT reply actions

Slider

that's the one. The M's have not cut him loose to throw slider's - supposedly it rivals his fastball.

"Second guessers are guys that could have never gotten it right the first time." - Tommy Lasorda (for guys that have no other defense for their actions.)

by slurve on May 31, 2006 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions

slurve

Apparently he threw sliders last year in the majors and also this year. It was in the minors they stopped him.

by pedrophile on Jun 1, 2006 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions

From what I've

seen/read/heard, the slider hasn't arrived yet.

"Second guessers are guys that could have never gotten it right the first time." - Tommy Lasorda (for guys that have no other defense for their actions.)

by slurve on Jun 1, 2006 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions

Question

How much of this can be attributed to Johjima's game calling?

by samjjones on Jun 1, 2006 9:26 AM EDT reply actions

Kenji

It shouldn't matter. It could be attributed to management's philosophy of calling for mostly fastballs though.

by ultxmxpx on Jun 1, 2006 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions

Game calling

absolutely does matter. When a catcher knows how work each hitter on an individual basis, the chances of the hitter not being successful raises exponentially. Catchers knowing where a hitter's holes are in his swing, what kind of pitches he'll chase, etc. is not to be under estimated. From what I've heard about Johjima, it was a concern at the begining of the season. Haven't heard as to whether he has/is improved in the area.

"Second guessers are guys that could have never gotten it right the first time." - Tommy Lasorda (for guys that have no other defense for their actions.)

by slurve on Jun 1, 2006 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions

I tend to agree with you.

And there must be some reason that it takes catchers so long to become major leaguers. The problem is, there is no statistical evidence to support your claim. Statistics like CERA have been proven entirely invalid.

by Azteca on Jun 1, 2006 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions

Not everything

can be quantified with stats... doesn't mean it isn't true.

"Second guessers are guys that could have never gotten it right the first time." - Tommy Lasorda (for guys that have no other defense for their actions.)

by slurve on Jun 1, 2006 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions

JoJo

I wonder about the validity of those claims myself. As a Mariner fan, I can honestly say I have not seen one pitch of one game this season, so I havent seen myself.

But Kenji came over as a top catcher from Japan. He had something like eight straight Gold Gloves. Its hard to believe that he went from a top catcher in Japan, to shit over here.

Also, none of the other pitchers seem to be having a difficult time. Moyer, Wash, etc.

by Boxkutter on Jun 1, 2006 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions

The other pitchers

Are actually overperforming... M's gone from last to first in K's. I think Johjima has something to do with that.

by Fett42 @ Minor League Ball on Jun 1, 2006 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions

Nobody said

Johjima was total shit over here. No matter how good he was over there, it takes time to learn all the batters over here and get acquainted with all of his pitchers.

"Second guessers are guys that could have never gotten it right the first time." - Tommy Lasorda (for guys that have no other defense for their actions.)

by slurve on Jun 1, 2006 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions

So...

When Felix has a good outing, it's because he is GOD but when he doesn't, it's the catcher's fault?

by yoda1 on Jun 1, 2006 6:19 PM EDT reply actions

No...

I don't think anyone here is saying that exactly, just trying to give possible reasons as to what may be contributing to his "struggles." Guys like Maddux have insisted on having a personal catcher for a variety of reasons - superstition/rythm/knows what the pitcher likes to do, etc. Johjima may very well be a significant reason behind Felix's struggles, then again, it may be nothing. The only thing I was getting at is that the catcher's role should not be over looked, it definately has potential to make a huge difference.

"Second guessers are guys that could have never gotten it right the first time." - Tommy Lasorda (for guys that have no other defense for their actions.)

by slurve on Jun 1, 2006 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions

OK

Guess the backup is no good either Felix had a rough game when Johjima didn't catch him. Maybe the answer is to rotate catchers until they find the suitable one for him.

by yoda1 on Jun 1, 2006 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions

That can be

part of the problem itself. Another reason pitchers request a personal catcher - stability. ...but you've probably got some smart-ass answer for that too.

"Second guessers are guys that could have never gotten it right the first time." - Tommy Lasorda (for guys that have no other defense for their actions.)

by slurve on Jun 2, 2006 8:29 AM EDT up reply actions

But

Outside of RJ, Wakefield and Maddux, I do not know of anyone who has a personal catcher.

My point is Johjima is not the main reason Felix is struggling as you suggested. It is probably a combination of many different things: youth, inexperience, mechanics, pitch calling, inability to adjust, command, etc.

To blame his struggles on Johjima is ridiculous.

by yoda1 on Jun 2, 2006 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions

smart ass answer

Here's one, stability hasn't worked so far either.

here's a thought, maybe it's not the Catcher's fault, maybe Felix ISN'T as ready as everyone thought he was.

God rested one day out of 7, Felix rests 4 out of 5.

by CrimsonLiederhosen on Jun 2, 2006 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions

Jesus F'n Christ

Where do you see that I say that it's Johjima's/catchers fault solely? Where!? Calm down for f^cksake. Someone was discounting the importance the catcher has on a game. I gave some reasons as to why it shouldn't be so easily dismissed. Nothing more. Nothing less. I know as well as anyone that Felix is going to have some growing pains, whether it's how the catcher calls the game, how many breaking balls the M's are letting him throw, batters adjusting or whatever. Now go and throw some tea into Bauh-ston Harbor and pull your shorts out of your crack.

"Second guessers are guys that could have never gotten it right the first time." - Tommy Lasorda (for guys that have no other defense for their actions.)

by slurve on Jun 2, 2006 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions