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Delmon

My take on Delmon Young.

After watching the video of Delmon Young throwing the bat at the umpire, this is what I would do if I was dictator of baseball.

  1. Immediate suspension for 90 games.
  2. Mandatory enrollment in anger management courses.
  3. Send him to low A-ball to "get back in shape" after his suspension. He won't taste the majors until 2007.
  4. Have him do some community service work at a hospital emergency room.

0 recs  |  Comment 44 comments

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In reality....
what do you think will happen?

by delmonfan on Apr 28, 2006 1:18 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

some perspective for Delmon?
i'm not a fan of anger management courses.  i equate their chances for producing significant long-term behaviorial change to that of drug rehabilitation.  it generally only works for folks who are desperate to make a change (something i don't see in Delmon).

i would suggest Delmon spend his suspension umpiring little league games.

long-time lurker first-time poster...

I love this site.  thank you for all your hard work here John.

by zimm on Apr 28, 2006 1:34 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Anger management programs
I disagree.  In fact, I'll say the opposite:  it only doesn't help people who are deliberately trying to get nothing out of it.

by achiappanza on Apr 28, 2006 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i would say...
we're talking about the same people then.  IMO, anyone who is ordered to attend these classes who does not recognize that they have a profound and serious problem prior to attending is going to be upset enough about the fact they're being forced to attend counciling for a problem they not only don't admit, but probably adimantly deny, that they will go into the experience thinking that it is a waste of their time.  

in my experience, i've found that with people who have profound behavorial problems, you'll be more likely to predict their behavior not by presuming they'll follow a common sense or logical path, but rather to make a list of the worst or least constructive outcomes possible and then assume that the outcome will be some sort of toxic combination of all of them.  

the optimist in all of us hopes that Delmon would go to anger management classes and say to himself "you know, i have a big problem here and if i don't do something about it, it's going to affect my development as a player, my reputation, and ultimately, my career.  i need to do something about it."

i just don't see that happening.  i think if he were ordered to attend these classes, he will not be receptive to it, and will get nothing more than a bigger chip on his shoulder.  

if Delmon is delt with by a light suspension and cliche  treatment like counciling, my Prospect Crystal Ball will be this:  the baseball Stephan Marbury.  all the talent in the world, but numbers and a career that mean nothing.

by zimm on Apr 28, 2006 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My call
50 games
no counseling (I agree with Zimm)
He spends his suspension giving speeches and doing Little League service work so he can remember what it was like to enjoy the game.

BA's article yesterday put it best. Upton and Young are both in the same situation. Upton has a much bigger reason to gripe about not being in the majors yet has kept his cool and done everything the team has asked of him.  Young has played 73 games in AAA and hasn't hit for much authority and has shown extremely little plate discipline. He is playing like he belongs in the majors instead of earning his way to the major leagues.

I just hope he doesn't turn into yet another wasted first round pick by the Rays.

by UCFKnights on Apr 28, 2006 1:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Length of suspension
I think the league has to take a position and the Devil Rays have to take one as well.

I see a 45-game suspension from the league, and a requirement from the Rays for some form of behavior modification -- counseling or community service.

Then I think somebody needs to sit him down and tell him in no uncertain terms that his actions have cost him substantially.  First of all, he won't see the majors in 2006, which will cost him service time.  Second, his total earnings will be the result of image and performance.  Incidents like this will keep him from getting endorsement deals down the road.  Finally, when his peak earnings time comes, teams are not going to want to invest in a head case.  He either gets his act together, or he loses millions of dollars.

by 3Com Park on Apr 28, 2006 1:55 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

too light
he threw a freakin bat at the umpire. umpires are not supposed to feel threatend by athletes. it is a joke and at least he should be suspended for a year. we all have stuff that doesnt go our way but we dont go around throwing bats at people when things dont go the way we want.

by taggartd on Apr 28, 2006 2:00 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Suggestion
I think Delmon needs to be suspended the rest of the season and fined for throwing the bat at the umpire.  He needs to learn the hard way that his actions will not be tolerated.  Maybe a little bit of anger management will do him good - if he does not get help we may see the second coming of Albert Belle.

by bravesfan13 on Apr 28, 2006 2:10 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Different Take
I saw the video of the bat-throw and, frankly, it didn't look all that bad. He was walking away and just sort of flipped it - it didn't look like he launched it. Also, it wasn't like he threw it as a precusor to rushing the guy.

I agree it was wrong and that he shouldn't of done it, but it isn't clear that he even meant to hit the guy.

I'd give him between 10 and 20 games.

Nolan

by Nolan on Apr 28, 2006 2:33 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

reasonable minds can disagree
"He was walking away and just sort of flipped it"

I disagree.  While I doubt he zinged it at the ump, the bat did come flying in fairly fast.  Much faster than a flip.

Of course, I think the season is a stiff penalty, and even 90 games is a lot.  I would come in around 30-45 games... but thats just me...

by dbimberg on Apr 28, 2006 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Throwing a bat vs shoving
Pete Rose got 30 days for shoving an ump.  I'd classify throwing a bat as worse, regardless of the velocity.  Minimum 60.  I think 90 sounds about right, and I'd also fine him and demote him.  

by rojosoto on Apr 28, 2006 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yes
I am appauled that this type of action is even being talked about in the same breath as a light sentence.  He should be suspended for the rest of the season and fined.  This type of action can not be tolerated or handled on the case of exceptions.  There is no exception for anyone on this rule, you don't harm or do anything that could harm an official.  I see no grey area here.  You throw/toss a bat and hit an umpire, you get the maximum penalty.  If nothing else it will teach him that he shouldn't pull this type of crap ever again.

Charlie

Go Pirates!!!

by cool hand Charlie on Apr 29, 2006 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hilarious!
He should be suspended for the rest of the season for sure, no matter how funny the incident was. And then if I'm the Devil Rays management I promote him to the big leagues immediately. He's already suspended indefinitely from his minor league team, so bring him up. No reason to curb his development.

It's similar to Ricky Williams going to play football in Canada while he's suspended from the NFL.

by coreyt on Apr 28, 2006 2:56 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Suspension
I think a minimum of 30 games is more than fair, and I wouldn't be upset if he got 45-60. What he did is beyond dumb. I'm not a fan of anger management classes either.
Please fire Dusty Baker!

by Buddy on Apr 28, 2006 3:17 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Out of
Out of curiousity, what type of suspension did Babe Ruth get when he punched a homeplate umpire in the face and knockout his two front teeth?

by ScottAZ on Apr 28, 2006 3:17 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Who knows?
According to his entry at baseballlibrary.com, the incident took place on 23 June 1917; Ruth drilled umpire Brick Owens (how is that for a baseball name?) after Owens called ball four on the very first batter of the game. There's no mention of a suspension, but Ruth was back in uniform by 11 July to throw a 1-hitter against Detroit. That's 17 days (if my math is right).

Keep in mind that he wasn't yet The Babe at this point; he was just a young fireballer with one superlative season under his belt.

Where Anne hath a will, Anne Hathaway.

by woodstein52 on Apr 28, 2006 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

isn't this
the game where the relief pitcher retired the next 27 batters? what was the guy's name, this is one of the coolest trivia tidbits in baseball history.

by jpahk on Apr 29, 2006 4:34 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yup
Indeed it is. That gent's name was Ernie Shore.

He was a great pitcher, but he did get 26 (according to his Baseball Library page) consecutive outs, which isn't often done.

Also, according to Shore's Baseball Library page, Ruth received a 10-game suspension for the infraction. Don't think that's on Ruth's page, oddly.

Where Anne hath a will, Anne Hathaway.

by woodstein52 on May 1, 2006 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ahem . . .
That was supposed to read, "He wasn't a great pitcher . . ."
Where Anne hath a will, Anne Hathaway.

by woodstein52 on May 1, 2006 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Different times
Back then, people got into fistfights over everything.  I'd like to think society as a whole has evolved a bit in 90 years, and we should be held to a higher standard.

by SmokeyJoeWood on Apr 28, 2006 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

People still . . .
get into fistfights all the time. Just not the millionaires who play baseball, quite as much.
Where Anne hath a will, Anne Hathaway.

by woodstein52 on Apr 28, 2006 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

punishment
He hit the ump with a bat!  I am not going to discuss trying to measure the authority/speed with which the bat was thrown, intent or lack thereof, etc... HE HIT THE UMP WITH A BAT.

I think a season suspension is in order;  this worse than steroids (for which there is a 50 game first-time suspension) because: 1) he could have caused grave harm to another; 2) the whole world can see it; 3) it's not the sort of offense one can evade with a masking agent, HgH, or the like; 4) what better time to set a precedent than with an initial offeanse of the sort.

Oh yeah, any ban/suspension should apply to all of baseball -- minors, majors, indies.  

by conig166 on Apr 28, 2006 3:18 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Verbiage
"Hit the ump with a bat" kind of sort of implies he wound up and tried to split the guy's head open swinging the bat.  He didn't swing, he threw.  Implies different levels of severity.

by drjayphd on Apr 28, 2006 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It strikes me . . .
. . . that the way to get to this guy (as with most people) is to hit him in the pocketbook. I mean, a suspension's a given, and should be, but if you nailed him with a fine of several hundred thousand dollars, you'd be significantly eating into that big signing bonus he got a few years back. That would probably get his attention.
Where Anne hath a will, Anne Hathaway.

by woodstein52 on Apr 28, 2006 3:30 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

... just sort of flipped it
"I saw the video of the bat-throw and, frankly, it didn't look all that bad. He was walking away and just sort of flipped it - it didn't look like he launched it. Also, it wasn't like he threw it as a precusor to rushing the guy."

Who are you trying to kid- the bat came in parallel to the ground from more than 10 feet away.  It takes a significant degree of velocity to maintain a flat trajectory.

The ONLY reason the umpire wasn't hurt was because the bat struck the padding.  If teh bat (same velocity) was 6 inches hire and struck the ump's face Delmon would probably be facing criminal charges now.

Now, I am curious about 2 things- 1: What did the umpire say (not that it woudl justify the bat throwing incident)

by Johnny Ruin on Apr 28, 2006 4:35 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Looked harder than a flip
I read more than I saw for the first two days before seeing a video.  Expecting to see an end over end toss that grazed the ump, I instead saw a rather quick moving bat enter the picture and strike the ump.  My jaw dropped as this seemed more dangerous than advertised.

My first thought, and one that I'm sticking to, is 100 games.

by stello12 on Apr 28, 2006 5:47 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

My take
...but it's biased as I own his rights in a league.  

It is hard to tell from the video, but I think it could be a flip, as described, albeit a hard flip.  By flip, I think that the person means that the bat was thrown with wrist action and underhand, rather than a windup of the arm of any sort.  That could still be (and was) a pretty powerful throw, given how strong someone like Delmon is.

Throwing a bat at a person merits a pretty big suspension regardless, but I doubt it was something that could have really harmed the ump, given all the padding that he was wearing.

I'd say a month suspension and a hefty fine along with anger management courses would probably be a fitting punishment.

I could see a case for a two month suspension, but no more.  Bertuzzi only got a year, and so did another hockey player who hit a guy with a full windup of his stick.

All that said, what the heck was that ump thinking calling a ball several inches outside a strike?  It's not like Tom Glavine was pitching or anything!

BTW, is there a video that actually shows him "flip" the bat?  The description given a couple of posts above implies that there is video which actually shows him throwing the bat.

by BaseballBrain on Apr 28, 2006 6:02 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Bertuzzi and Hockey
Remember the context... Hockey is a MUCH more physical (read: 'violent') sport than baseball is.  Hitting a player is part of the game, hitting a player with your stick isn't that big of a deal really.
God rested one day out of 7, Felix rests 4 out of 5.

by CrimsonLiederhosen on Apr 28, 2006 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Baseball/Hockey
Granted, but still, if you can't see that hitting someone intentionally in the head with a full windup of the hockey stick is more serious than throwing a bat underhanded at someone regardless of the "context", then I don't really think we have common ground upon which to make an argument.

by BaseballBrain on May 1, 2006 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I haven't seen
anyone say this yet, but I may be repeating...

Judging by the rotation of the bat and how it struck the ump, it looks like he had the bat down by his side.  When he turned, he didn't throw the bat overhand, but rather he raised his arm from his side and let the bat go while his arm was traveling upward, which is why I think people that saw it are classifying it as a "flip."  Either way, it had a good amount of velocity and that doesn't take away form the severity of what he did.

Give 'em 20 years in the electric chair!!!

As far as the couseling, I think he needs to go.  Doesn't matter if he wants to be there or not.  By sending him, you are doing your part to do what you can to help him rectify his behavior.  That's all you can ask, if he doesn't take the opportunity to let that help him, it's his fault, you did your part trying to get him help.  If nothing else, you are exposing him to ways to manage his emotions.  It may not work right away, it may never work.  It may work right away, it may sink a in a year from now.  Either way, he needs some counseling.

"Second guessers are guys that could have never gotten it right the first time." - Tommy Lasorda (for guys that have no other defense for their actions.)

by slurve on Apr 28, 2006 6:26 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

This:
"Give 'em 20 years in the electric chair!!!"

is friggin' hilarious.

Where Anne hath a will, Anne Hathaway.

by woodstein52 on Apr 28, 2006 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, I see how it is
So it's okay to hit a woman wearing a sausage costume with a bat, but it's not okay to hit an umpire?

Okay, I see how you guys think.

LOL

by The Scout on Apr 28, 2006 6:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Upon further review
I'd said before he should get 25-30 and a smack upside the head.  Seeing as he turned around and threw it at the ump (as mentioned in one of the diaries) and I couldn't tell from the video, changing my stance and ripping off some ideas from yinz.
  • 55-game suspension
  • Community service, working Little League games
  • $250,000 fine
  • Booted back to Single-A
  • Doesn't get called up to the bigs at all this season
  • Not invited to D-Rays spring training in 2007
  • Dmitri Young smacks his li'l brudder around a bit
Sound fair?

by drjayphd on Apr 28, 2006 7:59 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Are you kidding me?
Fining a minor league $250,000?   Roger Clemens only got a $50,000 fine.    

Why not chemically castrate him or make him be the umpire's butler for a year while you're at it?

by cunningt on Apr 28, 2006 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

A couple of possible distinctions
We're talking about a minor leaguer who has a major league contract and a signing bonus of $3.7 million, so it's not like you're going to leave him destitute. Clearly this kid needs to check his head, and a fine on that order might be the only thing that's going to get him to do that.

But beyond that, there are two things that make this incident different than that one, as far as I can tell:

  1. Intent. Delmon Young threw a bat -- or flipped it, or whatever you want to say, but it was going fast -- at somebody with the clear intention of hitting the guy. Roger Clemens kind of tossed a bat in the general direction of somebody. Young's throw came in torso-high and could well have struck the ump in the face. Clemens' throw bounced along at about ankle height. Don't mistake me for a Yankee fan or a Roger Clemens apologist, but these two instances don't seem to be on the same level to me. Clemens' was weird; Young's was dangerous.
  2. Target. Clemens tossed a bat at another player. Young tossed a bat at an umpire. This dichotomy might seem a little arbitrary, but it's a well-established, unspoken, rule of baseball that you can take a couple of whacks at a fellow player (not without consequences, but it happens), an assault on the ump is unacceptable, just short of going into the stands after a fan, which is one of the cardinal sins of baseball. There is some reason for this: Umpires, unlike ballplayers, are not profession athletes, so, while they may provoke ire, they are not as able to physically defend themselves through brute strength, at least in theory. Another is that umpires are the impartial arbiters of the game; by definition they don't have a side (or at least shouldn't, and, as far as I can tell, almost never do in the professional game), meaning they cannot have done anything purposeful to affront you.
Clearly, umpires are people and it isn't always the case that they keep their traps shut or whatever, but it's an accepted standard of American society: An attack on a figure of authority is treated as a much graver offense than an attack on a peer. It's this way with cops and teachers. It's the same with umpires.
Where Anne hath a will, Anne Hathaway.

by woodstein52 on Apr 28, 2006 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Moeny
Fines are not scaled based on how much a player makes, as I recall, players are generally fined evenly regardless of how much they make.
God rested one day out of 7, Felix rests 4 out of 5.

by CrimsonLiederhosen on Apr 29, 2006 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry . . .
I didn't finish my thought. It should be brilliant.

Ultimately, I hope that Delmon Young screws his head on and becomes a great baseball player -- with no caveats. It's in my interest as a baseball fan that there be great ballplayers, and great ones who don't violate the norms of society, cos that's how my sport attracts fans and stays vital into the future. In this respect, getting Delmon Young's attention now is a very good idea.

That said, I do have a soft spot in my heart for ballplayers with obvious personality disorders, because I think they're funny. I think Gary Sheffield, in New York, working for George Steinbrenner, is one of the best things to have happened in the last fifteen years or so. I have fond memories of the Jeff Kent-Barry Bonds feuds of 2002, because that clash of two of the biggest jerks in all of baseball was endlessly entertaining -- like reality TV for people who hate reality TV.

So maybe I am rooting for a bitter, paranoid Delmon Young, to add a little spice to baseball for the next twenty years.

Where Anne hath a will, Anne Hathaway.

by woodstein52 on Apr 28, 2006 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Youth
He is a kid, kids make mistakes. Lets make this a big deal, link to to several years ago, and hope he gets the point...but either way Albert Belle the II would be fun to watch

by jaguar2490 on Apr 28, 2006 9:32 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Run the gauntlet
50 Games and have all the replacement umpires line up and take turns paddling him as he attempts to run the gauntlet!
I am reminded of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, "I drank what?"

by kings33 on Apr 28, 2006 11:09 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Where is the Video?
Where is the video of the bat flip?

Also, I always thought it was funny to hear fans of other teams lobbying for suspensions. What do D-Rays fans think? Are there any D-Rays fans?

I think a suspension might go something like this:

25-40 games, no major league call-up in 2006, no invitation to spring training in 2007, Delmon can't get to AAA until 2007.

He gets the message that way, and it doesn't hurt his development too much.

by Stealfirstbase on Apr 28, 2006 11:16 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Some Perspective
I know things have changed a bit in the past thirty years or so, but Juan Marichal clobbered Johny Roseboro with a bat and got an eight game suspension

by Blink 183 on Apr 28, 2006 11:26 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Izzy Alcantara
If I remember correctly only got 10 games for his kick.  Now...Delmon's incident was with an umpire, but I don't see it as any less acceptably then taking a full kick at someone.  I could see 20 games for this, but I think people are clamoring more for what they want to see than what precedent would say he will.

by Anibal the Cannibal on Apr 29, 2006 6:38 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

And a Carl Everett note . . .
Also, Carl Everett received a 10-game suspension a few years ago for bumping -- and inadvertently head-butting -- Ron Kulpa during a game while arguing about whether or not he was in the batter's box. For what it's worth.
Where Anne hath a will, Anne Hathaway.

by woodstein52 on May 1, 2006 12:27 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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