Angel Guzman called up.

by Ienpw on Apr 23, 2006 2:42 PM EDT

Oh what a 6.61 ERA in 3 AAA starts can do for Guzman. His ERA was inflated by a bad start where he allowed 3 HR in Albequerque, but he had a fabulous 23:3 K:BB in 16.1 IP. Jerome Williams was sent down after a horrible start. Guzman is in the bullpen for todays game, so it is unknown whether or not Guzman will make the start on Wednesday.

I kind of think Rich Hill will end up with the Wednesday start. He's back to rolling in Iowa, but who knows about him. As a Cubs fan, I am ecstatic. Angel Guzman is FINALLY here.

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Comments

Guzman

If I were a Cubs fan....I wouldnt be estatic.

Just another arm for Dusty to ruin...

by bballfanlvnv on Apr 23, 2006 2:49 PM EDT reply actions

subject

Dusty didn't ruin anyone. Cubs need pitchers that don't sit down to pee. Dusty is Dusty. Cubs hired him to be the coach, so they need to supply him with the pitchers that fit his style.

by Josh @ Minor League Ball on Apr 23, 2006 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions

style?

... so Kerry Wood and Mark Prior arent Dusty's style? What kind of pitchers would fit Dusty's style? What is Dusty's style? Id like to see you tell Wood or Prior that theyre pussies. Dusty is Dusty, and Dusty is an ignorant throwback that belongs in the media box, not the dugout. Is there anything that Dusty does well? He cant put together a lineup, he's a terrible ingame manager, he's no good "managing ego's", he cant manage a bullpen, and young pitchers arms accrue more DL time than wins. Its an interesting style, something like Kevin Federline's "music".

by sanchez101 on Apr 23, 2006 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions

sunject

Dusty needs pitchers that can throw more pitches then most. Zambrano and Livan Hernandez fit the mold to a T. Prior looked like he would be that guy but he has had a few freak injuries.

"Id like to see you tell Wood or Prior that theyre pussies."

I didn't call anyone a pussy. But lets be real about this, Prior and Wood are not going to get you 220 innings a year. They can't handle the work load. If you feel that makes them a pussy then so be it.

I also enjoyed your rant about Dusty. I'm not a fan either. My point was that he is who the Cubs picked and they need to give him the arms to fit his style. Sorry but picking arms off the scrap heap isn't going to work out well. (Chad Fox, Wade Miller) Dusty needs pitchers that

Smarter people then me need to figure out why pitchers are getting so fragile. Here is a nice write up. Kind of how I feel on the subject, with a fitting end.

http://www.baseballlibrary.com/baseballlibrary/submit/Mucci_Frank1.stm

by Josh @ Minor League Ball on Apr 24, 2006 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions

YEAH!!!

ones with rubber arms that can throw 250 pitches every other day.

I don't seriously think Dusty single-handedly ruined any arms, but not realizing that is style significanty contributes to arm injury is pure ignorance. There have been numerous scientific studies that show the likelyhood of injury increases dramatically once the 110-120 pitch barrier has been broken - the number varies by study. A look at Prior and Zambrano's pitch counts the last half of the 2005 season is down-right ASKING for troubles. Dusty is piss-poor at managing pitching. Period. You never see Maddux go that high. There is no doubt in my mind he has some contractual control over when he is coming out of a game/pitch counts. Low and behold, he is never hurt.

"Second guessers are guys that could have never gotten it right the first time." - Tommy Lasorda (for guys that have no other defense for their actions.)

by slurve on Apr 23, 2006 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions

well

while it will look even worse if Dusty works Guzman too hard its hard to blame Dusty for ANYTHING that happens from here on out to Guzmans arm since it hasnt been healthy since he was 15

by nms on Apr 23, 2006 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions

thats true

angel guzman's natural state is injured.

by sanchez101 on Apr 23, 2006 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions

Same

thing with Wood. His arm whip will always give him problems. But knowing this Dusty should be careful with. Not Dusty. Dumbass lets him throw as much as Zambo/Prior.

"Second guessers are guys that could have never gotten it right the first time." - Tommy Lasorda (for guys that have no other defense for their actions.)

by slurve on Apr 23, 2006 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions

dusty

ya, but wood is such pussy for getting injured

by sanchez101 on Apr 24, 2006 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions

If I could

Throw in the mid-90's, strike out 20 in a game and make millions of dollars, you could call me a pussy all you want. He's not a pussy, he just has a violent delivery. Me thinks you'd do some pussin' if you did that to your arm too.

"Second guessers are guys that could have never gotten it right the first time." - Tommy Lasorda (for guys that have no other defense for their actions.)

by slurve on Apr 24, 2006 6:57 AM EDT up reply actions

another fine post

How did Dusty hurt Wood's arm? You might want to read up on Woods highschool days, and then look up some game stats from his rookie year.

You want to blame someone you can start there and then move on to the pitching coaches for the cubbies. They are not teaching these guys how to pitch. Why the hell Is Wood hitting the majors at 20 when he can't throw strikes, and his pitching mechanics are crap? It is easy to blame Dusty, but when he gets these guys they need to be ready. Wood has never been ready!

by Josh @ Minor League Ball on Apr 24, 2006 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions

What?

Never been ready? His LIFETIME ERA is below 4. He's had 5 seasons of sub 4 ERA. He hit the majors at 20, struck out 233 batters in only 166 IP, but he can't throw strikes. WTF? I didn't say Dusty hurt Wood's arm. Where do you see that? I know all about his HS days and how many pitches he threw just days before the draft.

Wood's natural motion puts a lot of strain on his arm. Doesn't matter if he's under Dusty or Bobby Cox, he'll get hurt sooner later. The problem is Dusty doesn't recognize this. Instead of taking him out after 90-100 he leaves him in there until he runs out of gas and he increases his likelyhood/number of injuries. It's not a case of getting players that "fit Dusty." That is just ignorant. "Let's trade all of our non-arbitration eligible young stud pitchers and get Livan Hernandez" Good God, get a grip. what they need to do is fire Dusty or tell him how he's going to manage those precious young arms. If he doesn't like being told how to manage - SEE YA!

"Second guessers are guys that could have never gotten it right the first time." - Tommy Lasorda (for guys that have no other defense for their actions.)

by slurve on Apr 24, 2006 10:03 AM EDT reply actions

subject

I don't care what his lifetime era is. Just because he can put up good numbers does not make him ready. He can't stay healthy because of his pitching motion. You need to fix that before you call the kid up. He was only 20, not like another year or so in the minors would of hurt him. He was thrown to the wolfes before dusty was even hired. You leave him in the minors for an extra year and you never know what wood turns into. Anything would be better then what we have now.

I also don't care how many k's he has. He hits 100 pitches by the 5th inning in damn near every start. You are saying he needs to be pulled after 100. SO the bullpen needs to pitch 4 innings every time Wood starts? Sorry but he doesn't throw enough strikes to be a good starter if he can only go to 100. He has to go 120 or he hurts the team IMO. His problem is he never learned to pitch. You going to blame that on dusty to?

"Let's trade all of our non-arbitration eligible young stud pitchers and get Livan Hernandez"

I said that? Please don't make shit up and then call me ignorant. Maybe you are the one that needs to get a grip. Someone asked the type of pitcher Dusty needs and Livan was an example. I never said anything about a trade.

"Wood's natural motion puts a lot of strain on his arm. Doesn't matter if he's under Dusty or Bobby Cox, he'll get hurt sooner later. The problem is Dusty doesn't recognize this."

OK so no matter what Wood was going to get hurt. Your words. But it is dusty's fault he did get hurt? I didn't know it was dusty forcing wood to take every batter to a 3 - 2 count.

Sorry but Wood is a liability. When healthy he taxes the bullpen, and when he is hurt he gives Cub fans false hope. He should of been traded years ago when he still had value.

I'm not a Baker fan and would love to see him go. I was only trying to say that if this is the guy the Cubs brass wanted, then they need to give him the right guys to work with. I have a hard time blaming dusty for banged up pitchers, when most where banged up when he got them. I would rather blame him for the in game problems, and the Cubs brass for the personal problems.

Slurve you want to get nasty again I won't reply. I'm not playing your game.

by Josh @ Minor League Ball on Apr 24, 2006 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions

Game

No one is playing a game. I don't like tossing the word "ignorant" around as it has such a bad conotation such as stupid/moron. The true meaning of the word is not that. For lack of a better word, ignorant it is.

What I'm saying about Baker is that Wood is injured more often and/or more severely due to Dusty's "style" if you can call it that. Someone here said he's a throwback that belongs in a booth somewhere. I couldn't agree more. If Wood was under a more cautious coach, he wouldn't be on the DL as much or as long IMO. That's all I'm saying.

I don't agree the Wood is a liability when healthy. A liability comes in and gets lit up and has an ERA over 5. Wood has struggled to find the plate as of late when "healthy." I agree there, but much of his struggles finding the zone have been just before or after an injury - that happens to the best of 'em. When he's locked in, he should be generally good for 6-7 IP at around 100-110 pitches. That is more than acceptable for a good starting pitcher.

Like I said before - there are numerous scientific studies out there that show pitchers are more likely to be injured after 110-120 pitches. Dusty routinely blows past these thresholds like it's as normal as drawing breath. Zambo hasn't gotten hurt yet, but the miles Dusty is racking up on that arm WILL come back and hurt Carlos. Whether it's blowing out his arm or shortening his career - it's coming.

"Second guessers are guys that could have never gotten it right the first time." - Tommy Lasorda (for guys that have no other defense for their actions.)

by slurve on Apr 24, 2006 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions

subject

"What I'm saying about Baker is that Wood is injured more often and/or more severely due to Dusty's "style" if you can call it that. Someone here said he's a throwback that belongs in a booth somewhere. I couldn't agree more. If Wood was under a more cautious coach, he wouldn't be on the DL as much or as long IMO. That's all I'm saying."

I would agree under a different manager he may of had more success. But who do you blame? Dusty or the guy that hired Dusty? When dusty was hired the cubs had a ton of nice young arms. When do we as cub fans stop blaming Dusty and look at the yahoo that hired the guy everyone wants to blame.

"Like I said before - there are numerous scientific studies out there that show pitchers are more likely to be injured after 110-120 pitches. Dusty routinely blows past these thresholds like it's as normal as drawing breath."

I know, but why is this? Why were the pitchers in the past able to handle the work load but not these guys? I can tell you it is not the managers fault. It starts in the minors when these guys are treated like little girls.

Managers win now or look for a new job. They are not worried about will pitcher A be good in 6 years. Someone above the manager needs to control this.

by Josh @ Minor League Ball on Apr 24, 2006 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions

Not true

"Why were the pitchers in the past able to handle the work load but not these guys?"

I used to think this way too. Turns out it there isn't much to support it. In fact the attrition rate for pitchers used to be significantly higher. For every Ryan Anderson, there were 4 or 5 back in the 50's and 60's.

There are also some other things to consider. We're not comparing apples to apples by comparing eras. Pitchers in the past didn't have TJ surgery or rotator cuff surgery. They were screwed if they got hurt. The past is littered with names that baseball chewed up and spit out only after a few years of pitching. You weren't around back then, so you probably just think they didn't exist.

Pitchers used to also pitch in games more often. The 5 man rotation is a fairly new concept. Some times they would even pitch on back to back days. They wouldn't throw as hard because of this to save themself for the next game. Pitchers in the modern era also throw the slider and the cut-fastball, which are 2 of the more abusive pitches on your arm. They didn't throw these back in the day. Sure there were guys like Warren Spahn, but they are the exception not the rule. We've got guys like that in this era too - such as Randy Johnson. Guys like that are rare.

"Second guessers are guys that could have never gotten it right the first time." - Tommy Lasorda (for guys that have no other defense for their actions.)

by slurve on Apr 24, 2006 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions

Where's

all the snazzy hardhead-headed comments here telling me I'm ignorant?

"Second guessers are guys that could have never gotten it right the first time." - Tommy Lasorda (for guys that have no other defense for their actions.)

by slurve on Apr 25, 2006 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions

subject

sorry but i think you're an idiot and not going to waste my time with you. I told you the first time you called me ignorant that was the way it would be. Take it easy.

by Josh @ Minor League Ball on Apr 25, 2006 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions

What

a cop out. Is this how you handle all of of your defeats in debate... or life in general for that matter?

"Second guessers are guys that could have never gotten it right the first time." - Tommy Lasorda (for guys that have no other defense for their actions.)

by slurve on Apr 25, 2006 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions

nop

just the guys on this site that go thread to thread looking to be rude.

by Josh @ Minor League Ball on Apr 25, 2006 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions

I thought

you were done with me? I am such an idiot an all.

I don't go thread to thread looking to be rude. I did however go and look through a lot of your posts in other threads and wasn't at all shocked to find that you are one that usually fires the 1st shot and gets all pissy when someone doesn't agree with you. Pretty childish and pathetic. Go ahead, get the last word in then take your toys and go home.

I laid out my points and backed them up with facts. You can't handle it because it doesn't conform to your pre-conceived notions or fit into the world of Josh. You can't counter so you resort to calling someone an idiot. At least I prefaced my statements that they were not intended to be derogatory. You went ahead and got nasty. Shame on you.

"Second guessers are guys that could have never gotten it right the first time." - Tommy Lasorda (for guys that have no other defense for their actions.)

by slurve on Apr 25, 2006 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions

wow

"I don't care what his lifetime era is. Just because he can put up good numbers does not make him ready."

Might be the worst statement I've seen on this site.

When a guy can strikeout over a batter per inning and keep his ERA under 4.00, you don't change his mechanics. That's the bottom line.

If he wasn't able to reach 100 IP, then that's understandable but Wood has reached decent IP marks throughout his career until 2005.

Rays in '08....

by youALREADYknow on Apr 24, 2006 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions

lol

"If he wasn't able to reach 100 IP, then that's understandable but Wood has reached decent IP marks throughout his career until 2005."

98 167
99 0
00 137
01 174
02 214
03 211
04 140
05 66
06 0

2 out of 9 years he will have broke 200 ip. I'm sorry but that flat out sucks for a guy that was suppose to be an ace. The Cubs needed to fix his mechanics, they didn't, and this is the results.

"When a guy can strikeout over a batter per inning and keep his ERA under 4.00, you don't change his mechanics. That's the bottom line."

For real, why fix him. Who cares if he ends up with a bum elbow, knee, and shoulder. Not like he is making 9 million a year. If my statement was the worst statement ever it didn't last long. Thanks.

by Josh @ Minor League Ball on Apr 24, 2006 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions

Your point is?

You directly quote me saying 100 IP and then criticize me using 200 IP as the benchmark? Your whole argument was a waste of time, but I'll evaluate the situation under your terms.

If Wood pitched 200 IP every season and had the same production, he would be a hall of fame lock. Are you saying that he is a waste because he isn't locked into Cooperstown?

There is a point where you have to realize that these are human beings who play baseball. People can't just suddenly change a throwing motion that has worked for years and years and keep the same consistency and production as before.

Is his throwing motion a problem, quite possibly.
Is he an injury risk, quite possibly.
Is he worth the money he is paid? Over the last season, no. Over his career, yes.

He posted IP's of 174, 214, 211, and 140 in a 4 year span. His injuries have had long rehab times and that explains the other seasons. He has shown that he CAN pitch healthy for a few years, so give the man a chance to do the same again. I think people forget how young Wood and Prior are. They haven't even hit their "prime" years yet and people are quick to write off their careers.

Rays in '08....

by youALREADYknow on Apr 24, 2006 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions

lol

How was my argument a waste of time? Wood in 9 years was only able to throw 200ip twice. SHouldn't an ace starter be able to throw more then 200 innings twice in 9 years?

I'm not sure why you used 100ip. WTF is 100 innings? Wood isn't a good bullpen arm he is a starter.

"He posted IP's of 174, 214, 211, and 140 in a 4 year span. His injuries have had long rehab times and that explains the other seasons. He has shown that he CAN pitch healthy for a few years, so give the man a chance to do the same again. I think people forget how young Wood and Prior are. They haven't even hit their "prime" years yet and people are quick to write off their careers."

174, 214, 211, 140 is good? Wood was good for 2 years. Sorry if I don't see 140 ip and think what a great year he had. I'm not even sure how you can call that a good year.

He has shown he can stay healthy for 2 years. WOW, I'm wrong. The Cubs made the right choice. Can't wait for the next 2 year stretch. I guess untill then I can deal with the scrubs the cubs are running out there in his place.

You sure Wood will be able to pitch in his prime?

by Josh @ Minor League Ball on Apr 25, 2006 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions

Uh...

Wood is ready and was for sure ready when he dominated coming into the league. He's a vet now! HAHA Both Prior and Wood need to get healthy but whomever said that Dusty doesn't know how to manage a staff is correct. I'm worried Zam's arm will fall off! Hendry needs to realize that they need an educated manager that understands that without Prior, Wood, & Zam and the stud prospects like Guzman, Hill, & Pawelek coming up the Cubs will continue to never win anything. Now Dusty wants more money??? Sign Jack McKeon and at least the Cubs will get to the playoffs.

by Havok1517 on Apr 25, 2006 2:13 AM EDT up reply actions

subject

"Wood is ready and was for sure ready when he dominated coming into the league. "

Why did he miss his 2nt year?

by Josh @ Minor League Ball on Apr 25, 2006 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions

Because

he got hurt genious. Doesn't mean he wasn't ready. He'd would have got hurt in the minros as well. Is hindsight the only tool in your toolbox of reasoning?

"Second guessers are guys that could have never gotten it right the first time." - Tommy Lasorda (for guys that have no other defense for their actions.)

by slurve on Apr 25, 2006 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions

Ignorant

Again, hate to use the word, but it fits. Nothing the matter with Wood's mechanics - it's his arm motion.

"Second guessers are guys that could have never gotten it right the first time." - Tommy Lasorda (for guys that have no other defense for their actions.)

by slurve on Apr 24, 2006 5:10 PM EDT reply actions

lol

Love throwing that word around. Shame you are the ignorant one.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/tom_verducci/05/11/wood.closer/index.html

The deal with Wood, though, is that it's not overuse that makes him vulnerable to injury, but mechanics. The Cubs may finally be getting through to him about paying more attention to his mechanics (including more video study).

An item in the Chicago Tribune's Cubs notes column for May 3rd states that "Cubs manager Dusty Baker said pitching coach Larry Rothschild will study film of Kerry Wood's mechanics to prevent Wood from incurring further arm injuries."

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/gameday_recap.jsp?ymd=20050629&content_id=1108675&am p;vkey=recap&fext=.jsp&c_id=chc

Wood did fine-tune his mechanics, but won't discuss the changes. There has to be a difference.

And Larry Rothschild is also teaching Kerry Wood new mechanics to put less stress on Woody's shoulder. The fact that the new mechanics could have led to the recent knee injury that required surgery does not take away from whatever Larry Rothschild may have taught Kerry Wood to prevent him from having the same old shoulder difficulties again.

The time off may give Wood and pitching coach Larry Rothschild time to reassess the right-hander's mechanics in hopes of avoiding future injuries.

"I've been pretty smooth, and I'm also worrying about [mechanics] more than my shoulder, so that's helping a little bit," he said. "I've been pretty optimistic from day one and that's the way you have to approach it."

You telling me Kerry Wood is ignorant to? Seems someone is spending a lot of time working on his mechanics.

Keep calling me ignorant. :)

by Josh @ Minor League Ball on Apr 25, 2006 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions

Who's playing

the game here Josh?

"Love throwing that word around. Shame you are the ignorant one."

I don't think so. I may not know everything, but at the same time, I am smart enough to realize it. Seems to be a trait you could definately bone-up on on. I know I'm not always right and can adapt to new and different concepts - such as changing my thinking on how I used to think pitchers from eras in the past were iron while the guys today are soft. I did my homework and adapted my thinking. You, ya poor bastid, are mired in your own cockiness thinking you're always right. Sucks to be you.

"Second guessers are guys that could have never gotten it right the first time." - Tommy Lasorda (for guys that have no other defense for their actions.)

by slurve on Apr 25, 2006 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions

EVERYONE...

disagrees with you Josh. You're standing in a room by yourself and you're just wrong!

by Havok1517 on Apr 25, 2006 3:51 PM EDT reply actions

How?

I don't see how I could be wrong. I'm not saying dusty's style didn't hurt Wood. I agree with them on that point. I just blame more then Dusty for what happen to Wood. I blame the gm for hiring a coach that is known to let pitchers rack up a lot of pitches. I also blame the Cubs brass for allowing wood to get called up with flaws in his delivery. Wood was young enough that the Cubs could of held him back and worked on him while protecting his arm. Instead they called him up and he lasted one year before needing tommy john surgury. Eight years later he has been to the DL 8 or 9 times. Would holding Wood back a year made a difference? I don't know. I do know that you can't say I'm wrong. How do you know what would of happened? It is nothing more then an opinion on how to handle young pitchers.

I don't like dusty at all. I feel he was the wrong guy for the job. But I have a hard time blaming Dusty for being Dusty. If you want to call him a dumbass and say he doesn't know shit, I'm ok with that. I'm just not ok with him getting the blame for ruining arms. I place the blame on Dusty's bosses. In the case of Wood a lot of damage was done before Dusty even came to town. Do those responsible get a free pass because the Cubs hired Dusty? Not with me.

I would love to see Dusty lose his job, but I want those who played a part in hiring him to see the door. They need to share the blame as much as anyone else.

by Josh @ Minor League Ball on Apr 26, 2006 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions

Please enter a subject for your comment.

"I don't see how I could be wrong."

There's your problem. EVERYONE disagrees with you, yet you can't bring yourself to the realization that maybe, just maybe you are wrong.

"I also blame the Cubs brass for allowing wood to get called up with flaws in his delivery."

Hind-sight is 20-20. There are tons of pitchers out there with flaws in their delivery. I don't think anyone is arguing with you that Dusty is the sole culprit, but he IS the biggest one. I blame McPhail and Hendry too, but Dusty is the biggest reason IMO. Hendry did not call up Wood, it was McPhail at that time. I'll go one step further - not only would I like the current brass gone, I'd LOVE to see a new owner. Someone that would be like a Jerry Jones/George Steinbrenner that would obsess with winning.

"Second guessers are guys that could have never gotten it right the first time." - Tommy Lasorda (for guys that have no other defense for their actions.)

by slurve on Apr 26, 2006 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions

subject

"There's your problem. EVERYONE disagrees with you, yet you can't bring yourself to the realization that maybe, just maybe you are wrong."

Everyone disagreed with me when i said Zambrano would be a better pitcher then both Prior and Wood. How did that work out? Should I have changed my opinion because everyone was calling me crazy then? I'm not going to change my opinion because a few people on a message board disagree.

"I don't think anyone is arguing with you that Dusty is the sole culprit, but he IS the biggest one. I blame McPhail and Hendry too, but Dusty is the biggest reason IMO"

So we agree that others played a factor in wood getting hurt. We just disagree on how much Dusty played a part. But because i blame those who hired Dustry more then you do I'm wrong? Whatever.

"Hendry did not call up Wood, it was McPhail at that time."

I didn't name names.

One called him up to soon, one hired the manager that abused his arm. What's your point?

by Josh @ Minor League Ball on Apr 26, 2006 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions