Discussion Topic: Stupid Roster Moves

2 of them:

Graves making the Indians opening day roster

Ryan Church not making the Nationals roster.

by shaftr on Mar 31, 2006 5:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Church

Demoting Ryan Church has to take the cake.

Is there any doubt that Bowden is the dumbest GM is baseball?

by Jerry on Mar 31, 2006 5:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Frank Robinson takes no garbage. Church hit like .212 in spring and probably did something. My guess is this was a Frank Robinson move to send him a message so he can help the team by the end of April. May not be as dumb as it looks.

by slickwdb on Mar 31, 2006 11:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Frank Robinson takes no garbage because

he's already full of it. Robinson and Jim Bowden are the perfect pair of idiots if you are looking to ruin a franchise. Not knocking on Robinson as a player, but he has to be one of the worst managers out there. Robinson's senile love affair with Brandon Watson and Bowden's dream of an all-tools outfield is why Church is gone. How a team can decide on their roster based on spring at bats over career long numbers is totally beyond me. It's a pity the Nats are managed so poorly; they're a team I like to root for.

by AucklandGM on Apr 1, 2006 1:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Argument may have points but

"How a team can decide on their rosters based on spring at bats over career longs numbers is totally beyond me."

You are aware that Ryan Church has about 300 career at bats and is 27 years old. I would hardly call that a career of accomplishment worthy of a free pass in spring training.

Marlon Byrd has over 1000 career at bats and has a .300 season in his only full season so I would hardly say that qualifies as "career long numbers."

I think Church should be starting but he is basically 2/3's of a season ahead of Watson and behind Byrd in experience so I disagree with your premise.

by slickwdb on Apr 1, 2006 10:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry for the confusion, but here's the deal...

Comparing prospects (I hesitate to even call Watson a prospect) by their first 200 or fewer AB in the majors or a smattering of spring training AB without looking at their career numbers in the majors and minors is just stupid, and I would never doing that. By "career numbers" I really meant CAREER numbers. Church may have only 200 career at bats in the majors, but he has a career line of 297/376/515 in the minors in over 1500 AB AB. Watson on the other hand has a career line of 301/344/350 in over 2400 AB in the minors. Watson was given a grade of C by John in 2006, while Church was given a B- in 2005. Someone like Church who has that track record in the minors and hit 287/353/466 in RFK last year deserves a legitimate shot to win a job, and Church didn't get one.

by AucklandGM on Apr 1, 2006 5:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

Nationals front office is as bad as it gets. Seems like everyone wants to make players know who is in charge. How Bowden still has a job at all is beyond me. This guy is probably the worst GM not named Chcuk LaMar.

by yoda1 on Apr 2, 2006 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What nobody mentioned...

The trade for Soriano.
Without him the Nats would be able to play Church and the Byrd/Watson duo. By getting Soriano the Nats are losing Church's bat in the line-up, are getting a worse left fielder, are paying Soriano a ton of money...

...and then you remember that the Nats actually gave up two valueable players so they could have this problem. This was how the Nats used their rationed resources (not to find a SS or a SP).

If you were the other 29 MLB franchises, who would you want to install and make trades with as the Nats GM? Who else but Bowden.

by jaguar2490 on Apr 2, 2006 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No, they wouldn't

Where would Brad Wilkerson play?

by jc3 on Apr 3, 2006 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Worse

Piniella was worse. C'mon, Damon Hollins? How does Damon Hollins get significant playing time?

by CrimsonLiederhosen on Apr 1, 2006 3:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Bartlett being sent down

Bartlett being sent down is one.
Jody Gerut being sent down is another (why keep both McLouth and Duffy up?)

(After pitcher tells GM he will pitch half of the games, complete them and they will all be QS)The GM has an orgasm and a heart attack at the same time.-Shamus

by ohad on Mar 31, 2006 5:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

RE: Bartlett being sent down

I do make sense of it if:

A trade is in the works by which Bartlett is dealt. They send Bartlett down to leave a roster spot for another. Yes, maybe it's to find a replacement for TBat at the hot corner. The double speak from Twins Management sounds like their honestly not happy with how it looks to be turning out.
This is just the usual bias towards veteran mediocrity rather than dealing with rookie mistakes. Okay, that really doesn't make sense, but there it is.

by steve johnson on Mar 31, 2006 7:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Bartlett Makes Sense

Since in spring trainiing the Twins didn't think he played defense very well or took very good at bats. Castro is a very good defensive shortstop and may not be any worse than Bartlet offensively. At least Bartlett was no better last year.

by TT on Mar 31, 2006 10:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Bartlett

Castro and Bartlett performed very equally last season in both probablistic range and OPS+. The difference is Castro may be a bit more consistent, but Bartlett has certain upside both at the plate and in the field.

I've heard nothing really bad said by anyone about Bartlett's overall hitting this spring, just comments on what amounts to defensive fundamentals and such. For that, he's once again relegated to wasting his time in the Minors and the Twins commited to waisting at-bats on a mediocre veteran.

And if Bartlett is indeed traded to fix the third base problem, believe me I'm not glad. Bartlett projects as a good defensive and offensive player at his position. The Twins have nothing remotely close to Jason Bartlett's caliber in the upper portions of their organizations at the shortstop positon. If Bartlett is dealt for a moderately talented 3b, he would have been lost for nothing given that there were third base options of that stock easily available this offseason. If Bartlett goes like this all they'll do is lose a good young player and move an offensive black hole. I would much rather endure Batista at third than that.

by steve johnson on Apr 1, 2006 2:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Bartlett's Demotion

Did any of you see Gardy's lame reason for demoting Bartlett? Check out this article for the full story:http://www.startribune.com/509/story/344446.html

by MauerPower on Apr 2, 2006 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Waiving Choi

Waiving Choi.

by cunningt on Mar 31, 2006 5:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Not even close

With Garciaparra backed up by Saenz, Kent capable of playing 1B, and Gold Glvoe caliber James Loney blistering the ball this spring and just an hour away in Vegas . . . Waiving Choi isn't even close to the stupidest move this spring.

Choi's worn out his welcome and proven unable to hold his position at three stops now. How long before Boston becomes number 4? Or should I say Pawtucket?

Bowden simply waking up in the morning is light years ahead of any other stupid move this spring.

by hunteralan on Mar 31, 2006 10:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

worn out his welcome?

I know people don't like Choi, and I'm not going to speculate why that is, except to say that it has absolutely nothing to do with his ability or actual performance on the field. Choi has hit better than Garciaparra in each of the last two seasons, even while being inexcusably jerked around by incompetent managers. As the Dodgers' regular 1B, he could have been expected to perform considerably better than Garciaparra will, and that's before you factor in the difference in salary.

I don't think it comes anywhere close to the Soriano trade, which is where the discussion of the worst roster move of the last ten years should begin and end--but still, it's gotta be right there in the running for second.

by mandamin on Apr 1, 2006 9:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Wrong

The point is that the Dodgers shouldn't have signed Nomar in the first place...The platoon of Choi/Saenz was 5th or 6th in the NL in 1B production last year...The Dodgers could have saved the money and gotten a better pitcher than Tomko...

Nolan

by Nolan on Apr 1, 2006 8:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Madson

Ryan Madson not in the Philly rotation.

and boom goes the dynamite.

by Mean Dean on Mar 31, 2006 5:58 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Madson

Will start in the rotation, and Franklin will move to MR with Floyd taking the last spot, last i read..

(After pitcher tells GM he will pitch half of the games, complete them and they will all be QS)The GM has an orgasm and a heart attack at the same time.-Shamus

by ohad on Mar 31, 2006 6:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Correct

Madson and Gavin Floyd both will start the year in the rotation; Ryan Franklin will pitch out of the bullpen.

by roboz on Mar 31, 2006 7:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Cards send down Reyes

I don't understand this blunder, but seeing as how they have averaged 93 wins in the past 5 years, I can't complain too loudly. Why send Reyes down now, and allow that Hack Ponson to take the number 5 spot? I s'pose LaRu figures the Alchy will fall off the Wagon by All-Star break and Reyes will be back up anyway...But come on, it only makes sense that our oft-injured Reyes play the 5 man, get a few starts under his belt this season, and makes the number 3 spot next season. Now, he's going to pitch his arm off all season in AAA, then wind up on the DL next year. Of course, Tubby should be in AA anyway (not the baseball one by the way), and we shouldn't have to even worry about this.

by ZackAttack on Mar 31, 2006 5:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Just my theory on this...

Generally, with all of the off days early in the season, most teams don't need a 5th starter until nearly the end of April. By sending Reyes down to AAA, they give him the opportunity to pitch every 5th day. Who cares if Ponson rots on the end of the bench and doesn't pitch for a couple of weeks? My guess is that Reyes is in the rotation by May.

Of course, as a Brewers' fan, I'd love to see Ponson stay in the Cards' rotation. We couldn't hit Reyes last year.

by andy 5 on Apr 1, 2006 10:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Sean Marshall

Picking Sean Marshall, a pitcher who's been mediocre in the low minors and never pitched above the AA level, over Jerome Williams for the Cubs' fifth starter spot.

by zookman12 on Mar 31, 2006 5:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

2.65 ERA

is mediocre now. I'll have to remember that.

by jeck on Mar 31, 2006 6:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Um

Have you seen Marshall this spring? Have you seen Williams this spring? Williams hasn't made ANY improvement over last year - Marshall, on the other hand, has worked damn hard and it's showing on the mound.

I'm not suggesting that Marshall is going to be anything brilliant, but I give the guy a lot of credit. He came in as a dark horse at best for a rotation spot and ran with the opportunity. Giving Marshall the slot is the exact opposite of the sort of behavior that Dusty's Cubs have been chastised for in the past.

If this were a good pitcher or somebody who's shown improvement, then I'd say you might as well be cautious with Marshall and let him build on his spring training success in the minors. But it's Jerome Williams, who fits neither of the aforementioned criteria.

by mrkupe on Mar 31, 2006 6:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Actually...

Williams is in the rotation as the #5. Marshall is the #4.

"Second guessers are guys that could have never gotten it right the first time." - Tommy Lasorda (for guys that have no other defense for their actions.)

by slurve on Apr 1, 2006 9:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Brian Jordan

Just inviting him to camp was stupid, and it looks like he is going to make the Braves as a back-up first baseman.

The man can no longer hit the ball. Just put him down.

by aCone419 on Mar 31, 2006 6:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

Either Matt Diaz, James Jurries or Scott Thorman can do a better job than Jordan at first. And if he's going to be a emergency corner outfielder, Diaz can probably do that too.

by sasquatch83 on Mar 31, 2006 11:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree...

Jordan has had a nice spring, albeit with small sample size. However, the Braves do not have much veteran presence on the bench and perhaps Bobby Cox would like a veteran pinch hitter...

That said, I still would think Jurries would be the better choice. But, this is not even close to the stupidest roster move of the spring..

by dbimberg on Apr 1, 2006 12:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Dumb Moves

Doug Mientkiewicz to the Royals has to be right up there. Trading Wilkerson for Soriano so he can play LF is about as dumb as it gets however.

Please fire Dusty Baker!

by Buddy on Mar 31, 2006 6:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

How in the world

did it take 9 posts for Soriano's name to be mentioned?

by williethekid20 on Mar 31, 2006 6:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

2

Giving Matt Morris $27 million dollars.

Trading Soriano for Wilkerson would have been a terrible trade straight up for the Nationals. Somehow, they also threw in Sledge and Galarraga.

by marcello on Mar 31, 2006 6:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Stupid

How about protecting Jon Coutlangus from the Rule 5 draft only to waive him at the end of ST to make room for Jamey Wright and Todd Greene so Cincinnati can claim him?

Corollary: Why protect Eliezar Alfonzo from Rule 5 just to bring in Todd Greene to be the backup catcher and then keep Alfonzo instead of Coutlangus?

I know none of these moves is going to change the balance of power of anything, but they still make no sense.

by DrBGiantsfan on Mar 31, 2006 6:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Greene/Alfonzo

Alfonzo is THE catching commodity in the Giants system right now. So keeping him down is just a way to play him everyday. Having a starter like Mike Matheny pretty much guarantees the back-up catcher in SF is going to see as little action as any bench player in the majors. Same reason Angel Chavez will make the opening day roster and Kevin Frandsen will start in Fresno. Pound-for-pound, Frandsen has shown he belongs in the bigs ahead of Chavez, but starting Frandsen at AAA assures him playing time.

by StickRat on Mar 31, 2006 7:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Chavez?

Chavez is going to be in AAA just like Finley. We have Vizcaino to back up the bases (I'm sorry to say).

by WalrusMan on Mar 31, 2006 7:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

EDIT....

Finley? Frandsen I mean.

by WalrusMan on Mar 31, 2006 7:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That would surprise me

Even with a healthy infield, a team should have two utility men. And with neither Ray Durham nor Lance Niekro at 100%, it would surprise me to see the Giants opt for just one back-up infielder. Frandsen still has a shot, if Durham's injury warrants Frandsen getting some early April starts. If the G's are confident Durham can play everyday, however, Chavez will most likely get the final roster spot.

by StickRat on Mar 31, 2006 7:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Frandsen staying with the team

Would surprise me more. Either Ellison would be dropped from being the 5th outfielder or Alou would take 6 in the bullpen, which when he's working can be used all in one game.

Frandsen I'm pretty sure won't get it. With two players already have been moved from the 40 man, another would have to be moved for Frandsen to come up.

If the Giants need two 2B to 3B subs in a game, one of the injured will go on the DL and Chavez would be called up. Sweeney backs up 1st and Vizcaino backs up the rest of the positions. No use for any more really.

by WalrusMan on Mar 31, 2006 11:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

But I would have said the same the same thing about Aardsma two years ago. That worked out nicely.

by irwin on Apr 1, 2006 12:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

G's opt for one utility man

I was wrong. Looks like the G's are going with just one utility infielder, Jose Vizcaino. I hope this is foreshadowing Ray Durham's health. I'd really like to see what Durham can do playing 140 games in the middle of the batting order.

by StickRat on Apr 2, 2006 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Commodity?

That's like saying the Yugo is THE automobile commodity in Serbia. Let's face it. Alfonzo is not a guy you should be polluting the 40 man roster with unless he's going to be your backup catcher. When Matheny is done, they will have to sign another FA, simple as that. Unless, of course, they find the their next starting catcher in the 2006 FA draft, a very unlikely event.

by DrBGiantsfan on Mar 31, 2006 7:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Polluting?

The auto commodity of most former European Block countries is the Mercedes Benz. :-)

As for Alfonzo, he hit .334 with 23 homeruns last year between San Jose A, Norwich AA, and Fresno. That's well worth protecting in my book.

by StickRat on Mar 31, 2006 8:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Mercedes Benz?

Uh maybe for the handful of gangsters who control 90% of the wealth in most of those countries.

You might want to check out Eliezar Afonzo's birthdate before you make him out to be the next Pudge Rodriguez, or even the next Dick Dietz.

by DrBGiantsfan on Mar 31, 2006 8:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Honestly ... the Benz is BIG

Most taxi's in Croatia and former Yugoslavia are Benz's, and they are a status quo middle-class auto as well. I think they are not nearly as expensive in Europe as they are in the states because they are produced localy.

As for Alfonzo, I agree with you that he is probably no more than a back-up catcher if he makes the bigs. Not trying to make him out to be the next Tom Haller or anything. Because of his age, though, I would liken him to Bob Brenly, who many pegged as a career minor-leaguer until he broke into the majors at age 28.

by StickRat on Mar 31, 2006 8:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

expensive

they're more expensive in the States because only the top-line is exported

by ian on Mar 31, 2006 9:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Benz vs Yugo

I don't know if the Yugo even gets made anymore, probably not. I was just trying to make a joke. Sorry.

by DrBGiantsfan on Mar 31, 2006 10:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I was just going with it ...

It's all good.

by StickRat on Mar 31, 2006 10:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Backup Catcher

Finding a Bob Brenly or Paul LoDuca is pretty rare. I'm not saying it can't happen, I just don't see the point of clogging up the 40 man roster hoping it will.

I actually think Alfonzo could be an adequate backup now. I would have no problem with Sabean if he protected Alfonzo so he could be an economical backup catcher this year. After all, barring injury, Mike Matheny will probably play all but about 20 games this year. What I don't understand is protecting him at the expense of losing a promising pitcher and then handing the job to Greene.

If he protected Alfonzo, then the backup job should have been his to lose. If he was going to bring in somebody like Todd Greene and hand the job to him, then why bother protecting Alfonzo? I just don't get it.

by DrBGiantsfan on Mar 31, 2006 10:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Alfonzo is an all-important fringe player

Sabean has shown his commitment stocking fringe players in AAA as insurance. Having a strong catcher in the wings will be pivotal over the course of the season if, knock wood, something should happen to Matheny. I totally agree that you want to protect prospects, but when you have a farm system like the G's, you're going to lose the occasional prospect to a team like Cincinatti. That's the way it goes, and the way it should be.

by StickRat on Mar 31, 2006 10:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

How about

Giving Tomy Womack a spot on your 25 man roster.. why is this stupid? Becuase its Tony Womack.

by cincyinco on Mar 31, 2006 6:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

haha

Your team has Tony Womack. HAHA.

Then again, my team has Danny Graves. Still, I'd rather have Graves.

by lenred on Apr 1, 2006 12:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ha..

Actually I would rather have Womack. The implosion Graves had against St. Louis last year sealed my complete distaste for him.

by cincyinco on Apr 1, 2006 5:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Woe-Mack

Agreed that this is just terrible. The honeymoon with Krivsky is definitely over if he's going to allow this to happen.

by erghammer on Apr 1, 2006 11:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Jeff Keppinger not making the Mets

Over Jose Valentin

by mtk52983 on Mar 31, 2006 7:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Shane Costa makes Royals

Shane Costa (.289/.317/.421 in Arizona this spring) will make the Royals as an extra outfielder.

Costa, 24, has totaled 16 at-bats at AAA. He didn't manage an 800 OPS at A-ball in 2004 nor at AA in 2005. He hit .235/.287/.333 in 81 AB in the majors last season.

He certainly needs more developmental time, yet the Royals think it's best for both him and for them to do otherwise.

by jonk1982 on Mar 31, 2006 8:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Bowden Is Your Go-to Guy For Stupid Roster Moves

Wilkerson+ for Soriano. Waiving Choi is pretty amazingly stupid, but that it's not even close is a demonstration of how far ahead of the 'competition' Bowden is.

by NBarnes on Mar 31, 2006 8:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

right on

I have to imagine this poll is going to be a race for who comes in 2nd worst behind the Soriano deal.

"Baseball is dull only to dull minds." -Red Barber

by e 6 on Mar 31, 2006 9:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Markakis

IF Nick Markakis makes the Orioles. He has options, is young, and Matos and Patterson in front of him. The Os should try to develop a young player.

by Robinson Checo on Mar 31, 2006 9:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Wait a second.....

How about the Texas Rangers bringing in Adam Eaton and Vicente Padilla? This is not what I would call a major upgrade. Id rather have The Gambler and Chris Young!

IMO... far worse than Bartlett or Church although I don't understand those moves either.

"Baseball is 90% mental, the other half is physical" - Yogi Berra

by the pinstripes on Mar 31, 2006 9:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Rangers

No one ever accused the Rangers of understanding pitching. Eaton's now hurt, so what do they do - trade Juan Dominguez for a couple of C prospects... Looks like they finally just gave up on Dominguez (weight/motivation issues?), but now doesn't seem to be the time to trade away healthy pitchers...

Can't say I can argue letting The Gambler go, though. Aside from his anger management issues (PR issue, if nothing else), he'll be collecting social security pretty soon.

"Baseball is dull only to dull minds." -Red Barber

by e 6 on Mar 31, 2006 10:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Rays Bullpen

Oh yeah, might I mention that Orvella was optioned to AAA....

When Tony Miceli's cousin is your closers, you know that you're not in for a good bullpen.

Let's hope Jason Childers continues to be an enigma for the Rays....

by The Rocc on Mar 31, 2006 10:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Not only that

but Orvella gets sent down, and the other candidates for the bullpen are:

Dan Miceli
Jason Childers
Ruddy Lugo
Brian Meadows
Chad Harville
Shawn Camp
Jesus Colome
Travis Harper

Sad, just sad....

"If there wasn't nine guys out in the field, I'd have a hit every time except when I strike out." - Delmon Young

by Brickhaus on Mar 31, 2006 11:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Not exactly stupid

Orvella has been pretty dismal this spring from what I understand. It's more that the D-Rays don't have much to work with to begin with, than that they made idiotic moves.

by sasquatch83 on Apr 1, 2006 12:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Frank Thomas at shortstop!!

Not a roster move but Frank Thomas is the A's starting shortstop at their Friday exhibition in SF. Not stupid. It's just on paper so he can get an at bat in the top of the first at a non-DH venue, but it looks really, really weird. Sorry. Had to share.

by StickRat on Mar 31, 2006 10:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

That's

so amazingly awesome...The Big Hurt at shortstop.

Could you imagine him turning a double play?

by Stealfirstbase on Apr 1, 2006 12:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

hahaha

lets hope he didnt get hurt just looking at his name in the 6 spot

by jrose643 on Apr 1, 2006 12:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

2 come to mind

Twins keeping Liriano as a MR. Devil Rays sending down Orvella and using Miceli as their closer (of the future).

by vcoheda on Mar 31, 2006 11:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

hmm.

The Twins have made a lot of stupid moves, but that's definitely not one of them. He can rack up a lot of low-pressure big league innings, and be around to make a spot start now and then. It's exactly what they did with Santana, which seems to have worked pretty well (though they did it for WAY too long). Here, it's just for half a season until they can dump Lohse on someone. I just don't see how either of these moves can be anywhere near the Soriano/Bartlett/Choi/Batista level of ineptitude.

by mandamin on Apr 1, 2006 9:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

LIriano vs. Santana

"He can rack up a lot of low-pressure big league innings, and be around to make a spot start now and then. It's exactly what they did with Santana,"

No. It really isn't. Santana spent his first year bouncing between the bullpen and the starting rotation. He was hurt his second year and missed half the season. And he developed into a super prospect only after he was sent to AAA his third year in the organization. He was called up only once their was an opening in the rotation. The next year he started out in the bullpen, but he was in the rotation again by mid-season.

I think they are making a huge mistake with Liriano. If they think he is ready to pitch in the major leagues, he ought to be in the rotation. If they don't, he ought to be at AAA pitching regularly in the rotation. And I will bet that is where he ends up at some point this year.

by TT on Apr 1, 2006 10:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Huge Mistake?

Well I guess Earl Weaver didn't know jack when he broke in all the stud Oriole pitchers of the 70's out of the bullpen...

by igreen01 on Apr 1, 2006 11:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Urban Legends

Well I guess Earl Weaver didn't know jack when he broke in all the stud Oriole pitchers of the 70's out of the bullpen...

I suggest you stop repeating that and look at how Weaver actually used pitchers. Because the idea that Weaver was using 22 year old future stars as relief pitchers is almost entirely an urban legend.

For one thing, Weaver had a four pitcher rotation. So guys like Doyle Alexander were used as fifth starters as much as they were as long relievers. For another, there were very few "young" pitchers on those teams. Mostly he broke in guys at age 25 and 26.

As far as I can tell the pitchers who vaguely fits the claim for breaking young pitchers in in the bullpen are guys like Scott McGregor and Wayne Garland. These guys were not exactly future hall of famers.

by TT on Apr 1, 2006 12:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Urban Legends

As a 24-year-old, Mike Flanagan pitched 85 innings in 1976, making half of his 20 game appearances out of the pen.

Source of "urban legend":
http://www.baseball-reference.com/f/flanami01.shtml

As a 22-year-old, Dennis Martinez pitched 167 innings in 1977, making 29 of his 42 game
appearances as a reliever.

Source of "urban legend":
http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/martide01.shtml

As a 23-year-old also in 1977, Scott McGregor pitched 114 innings, making 24 of his 29 appearances out of the pen.

Source of "urban legend":
http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/mcgresc01.shtml

I use these examples because after interviewing Theo Epstein last year, Peter Gammons wrote:

"Epstein believes in 'the Earl Weaver approach of breaking young starters in as relievers, like with Dennis Martinez, Mike Flanagan and Scott McGregor,' which is how Papelbon may get his feet wet.

But those guys probably don't know jack either. Say, have you heard the one about the alligator in the toilet?

by igreen01 on Apr 1, 2006 12:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Urban Legend

Thanks for reinforcing my point:

As a 24-year-old, Mike Flanagan pitched 85 innings in 1976, making half of his 20 game appearances out of the pen.

He had ten starts and ten relief appearances. Can you say 5th starter?

As a 22-year-old, Dennis Martinez pitched 167 innings in 1977, making 29 of his 42 game
appearances as a reliever.

Can you say 5th starter? He also finished 19 games
and got 4 "low pressure" saves.

You can add Doyle Alexander and Wayne Garland to your list of guys who started out as 5th starters for Weaver. That was hardly unique in the era of four pitcher rotations.

If Liriano gets half his appearances as a starter or pitches 167 innings I'll buy it. But that isn't going to happen on a team with five starters in today's game with relief specialists pitching the last couple innings. The only way Liriano gets a start is if someone gets hurt. And if he only gets 29 relief appearances, like Martinez, he's going to end up with less than 60 IP and would be a lot better off pitching every day at AAA.

But those guys probably don't know jack either.

Gammons repeats the same old tired stories as everyone else and Theo reads them.

by TT on Apr 1, 2006 12:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Just to clarify

Also, since the facts aren't really in dispute here, we seem to be having an argument about definitions. Are you objecting to the idea that Weaver broke in young pitchers out of the pen because in reality they were "fifth starters" (there, I can say it) -- on teams with four-man starting rotations?

by igreen01 on Apr 1, 2006 12:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Different Era's

e you objecting to the idea that Weaver broke in young pitchers out of the pen because in reality they were "fifth starters",

I am not objecting to Weaver doing anything. Lots of teams broke in young pitchers as "fifth starters" in that era. There was nothing unique about what Weaver did. But the point is they were not breaking in as bullpen pitchers. The schedule guaranteed they would get some starts and they were pitching out of the bullpen only when they weren't needed to start.

The point is that the description of Weaver breaking in young pitchers in the bullpen is simply not true. The fifth starter on the Twins is Baker, not Liriano. Liriano's role has nothing to do with how Martinez was used. Even if he isn't used as a lefty specialist, he still isn't going to be pitching 100+ innings out of the bullpen. And, until someone breaks down, he won't get any starts.

Just to give you an idea of the differences in how pitchers were used, in 70's the most appearances Oriole pitchers made in a season was 347 in 1974. Last year they made 636. They haven't made less than 550 since the strike shortened seasons in the mid-90's. And if you consider 162 games were starts in both era's, bullpen appearances have more than doubled. In the 70's close to half of all pitching appearances were starts. By last year it was more like 25%.

by TT on Apr 1, 2006 2:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Just looking back...

... at my initial comment, I see that it may have been unnecessarily sarcastic. So I'll only stand behind the sarcasm of the follow-up post now.

by igreen01 on Apr 1, 2006 12:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Tons

TONS of pitchers have come into the league as MR's. Look no farther than Pedro Martinez. 'Nuff said.

"Second guessers are guys that could have never gotten it right the first time." - Tommy Lasorda (for guys that have no other defense for their actions.)

by slurve on Apr 1, 2006 12:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Joey Devine

Devine does not make the opening day roster despite a great spring.

He'll probably get called up when Thomson is traded in the next few weeks, but he deserves a spot.

by cinqua on Apr 1, 2006 12:02 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I just saw this too

Jordan on the roster, not Jurries. Devine sent down, Thomson in the bullpen and Davies in the rotation.

I have no problems with Davies in the rotation, but Thomson in the bullpen is kind of strange - if he's injured, why not stick him on the DL? Fear of scaring potential trading candidates away?

Has Thomson ever pitched relief before?

by sasquatch83 on Apr 1, 2006 12:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think..

The Braves want to demonstrate that Thompson is healthy and then they will trade him. However, keeping him at the expense of Devine? surely someone else could have been sent down.

by dbimberg on Apr 1, 2006 12:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The White Sox

did take Boone Logan north, but it actually looks like he'll be a good reliever.

I'd nominate the Cubs handling of their pitching staff, with Miller, Wood and Prior on the DL and Williams in the bullpen. Incredibly bad planning.

by Stealfirstbase on Apr 1, 2006 12:35 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I cannot believe that I am the first to mention.

Tony "FREAKIN" Batista.
Your Minnesota Twins 3B

by Terry Ryan Jr on Apr 1, 2006 1:33 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

hands down...

the winner.

man, I wish the Twins would get a real 3B... maybe put Cuddyer there with Kubel in RF... has to be better than Tony Bautista

by dbimberg on Apr 1, 2006 12:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Denorfia

Sending Chris Denorfia down and leaving Quinton McCracken on the big league roster probably wasn't a great idea. I understand the desire to let Denorfia play everyday for awhile, but on a team with injury risks like Ken Griffey Jr. and Austin Kearns, one would think Denorfia would get plenty of playing time.

by BroadwayJoe22 on Apr 1, 2006 3:31 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Cubs latest trade

Even with the minor leaguers coming back, trading Murton and Barrett to the Giants for Matheny and Finley will turn out to be the worst roster move of the season.

by BobbyMac on Apr 1, 2006 3:54 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

God

these hollow attempts of April fool jokes are a waste of bandwidth.

"Second guessers are guys that could have never gotten it right the first time." - Tommy Lasorda (for guys that have no other defense for their actions.)

by slurve on Apr 1, 2006 12:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It's been a banner year of stupid.

There are too many to mention them all, I think... this has been the most blunderful year I can remember.

Nominees:

Bartlett not being the Twins SS.
Miles being named the Cardinals 2b.
Bannister in the Mets rotation instead of Heilmann.
Rangers trading Juan Dominguez when Eaton got hurt.
Rangers naming Dickey the fifth starter instead of Dominguez in the first place.
Tigers having Zumaya in the bullpen instead of rotation at AAA.
Twins using Liriano as a LOOGY.
Jerome Williams being the odd-man-out in the Cubs rotation.
Devine being sent down.
Horacio Ramirez in the rotation instead of Thomson or just about anyone.

by Vaux on Apr 1, 2006 7:20 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Don't agree with some of these

Zumaya - has nothing left to prove in the minors. It's time he sees some MLB hitters.

Liriano - see: Pedro Martinez

Williams - sorry, he sucks, pure and simple. 5 K's in 23 IP with an ERA close to 7. How someone can see this and call it stupid is beyond me.

"Second guessers are guys that could have never gotten it right the first time." - Tommy Lasorda (for guys that have no other defense for their actions.)

by slurve on Apr 1, 2006 1:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Wow...

My sentiments exactly. Except I wouldn't have made an apologetic precursor to my statement that Williams sucks. More like, Williams really sucks.

by JayhawkTom on Apr 2, 2006 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Aaron Miles

I've always been an Aaron Miles fan and see him as a great fit with David Eckstein up the middle. Also, he is the only viable option for St. Louis right now, since Junior Spivey and Hector Luna are below the Mendoza Line this spring.

by StickRat on Apr 2, 2006 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Tavarez

The inclusion of Julian Tavarez on the Boston Red Sox roster, when there are at least 2 or 3 better options being sent down to the minors.

For a team that is so high on character and chemistry, I question the wisdom of keeping someone who will throw a right hook in an exhibition game at the drop of a hat, after giving up a few walks and hits the previous inning.

I question that player's ability to pitch in the biggest stage in baseball.

by SmokeyJoeWood on Apr 1, 2006 8:14 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

On the contrary

Tavarez decking Gathright was just him trying to fit in. Slipping right in to the fabled Red Sox/D-Rays rivalry.

by drjayphd on Apr 1, 2006 5:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Keeping Jim Bowden as a paid MLB GM

is the dumbest move bar none. Tony Siegle could have kept things afloat until an owner was named.

Incompetence, thy name is Bowden.

by NFA Brian on Apr 1, 2006 8:56 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Pirates...

Joe Randa.

Jeromy Burnitz.

Do I really need to say anymore?

Okay, fine.

It's one thing to force Freddy Sanchez into a utility infielder role. I honestly don't see him as anymore than that. But to bring in the washed-up Randa at $4 million to start in place of Sanchez at 3B?! Joe Randa is just a more expensive Chris Stynes- and will probably last as long as Stynes did (of course, that was far, far too long).

Worse, though, it forces Jose Bautista to AAA. The same Bautista who absolutely tore it up this spring. Now, the significance of spring numbers is certainly debateable. But when a guy does really well, it's worth considering giving him a shot. Especially when there isn't a snowball's chance in hell that your team is going to be competitive anyways. Randa serves zero purpose. Bautista and Sanchez could easily have done the job at 3B at a fraction of the cost. But now, Pirates' fans have to watch Randa flail around incompetently for a couple of months until his inevitable release.

As for Burnitz, I'm hardly surprised anymore. Littlefield was hot for Burnitz a year ago and got spurned. Burnitz is just the latest in the "Keep Craig Wilson on the Bench" brigade. At this point, they are basically the same player, only Wilson is younger, cheaper, and hasn't had his last couple of seasons inflated by places like Coors and Wrigley. I don't think Burnitz will turn into Raul Mondesi or Derek Bell- but he won't be Reggie Sanders, either. He'll be somewhere in between, and either get traded in July for a 26 year old right-handed relief pitching "prospect" or he won't get traded at all and will just eat money for an entire year while offering no production whatsoever. Meanwhile, Dave Littlefield will finally get rid of Craig Wilson, trading him at some point for a 25 year old, hacking, poor defensive utility player (aka Ty Wigginton, v2.0).

And the Pirates, of course, will finish with their usual 70-75 wins. Littlefield won't get fired, because he "still needs more time" to fix Cam Bonifay's mess. When it doubt, blame it on Bonifay. Everything is his fault. Everything that has ever gone wrong with the Pirates is Cam Bonifay's fault.

by calig23 on Apr 1, 2006 10:29 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Replying to myself...

I don't know if this really belongs here, but the Pirates just gave reliever Salamon Torres a 2 year, $6.5 million extension.

Now, I like Torres. He's a good reliever. But unless the guy's name is Mariano Rivera or Brad Lidge, you don't shell out multi-year contracts to relief pitchers. They just aren't that reliable from year to year, except for the truly dominant ones- and I don't put Torres in that class. Littlefield already got burned once before doing a similar thing with Brian Boehringer. I hope it doesn't happen again...

by calig23 on Apr 1, 2006 10:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Gald you brought that one up

a 7 mil two-year extension for a 34-year old middle reliever is just criminally dumb...

by igreen01 on Apr 1, 2006 11:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The Giants...

circa Torres' efforts in the deciding final game of the '93 campaign, can only hope that $6.5 mil blows up in the Bucs' collective faces.

by JayhawkTom on Apr 2, 2006 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry man...

I'm a Tigers fan. And if the Pirates have gone the longest stretch of any major league team with losing seasons, my Tigers have gone the second longest. Even a great GM like Dave Dombrowski has needed 5 years to turn the Tigers around, and the job isn't complete yet.

Thank you, Randy Smith, and your trade of Luis Gonzalez for Karim Garcia. And your signing of Damion Easley to a four year, all-star salary contract. And doing the same for Bobby Higginson. And Steve Sparks. And trading away Phil Nevin for some people who played a total of 50 games in the major leagues. And thinking that signing Bob Hamelin, Gregg Jefferies, Hal Morris, Vince Coleman, Luis Polonia and Deivi Cruz was the answer.

And finding such prospects such as Gabe Alvarez, Brian Maxci, Clint Sodowsky, CJ Nitkowski, Scott Sanders, Glenn Dishmann, AJ Sager, Todd Van Poppel, Felipe Lira, Orlando Miller, Mike Christopher, Greg Gohr, etc...

I'm sorry to say that we somehow claimed Chris Shelton in the Rule V draft from you guys, and turned him into a .300 hitting, decent fielding firstbaseman that may hit 30 homeruns this year and have an OPS of .900. He may be our ticket to a winning season finally.

Sorry you have to endure more incompetence. :( At least you guys made the playoffs less than 15 years ago.

by TheCouga on Apr 2, 2006 6:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Relievers

you don't shell out multi-year contracts to relief pitchers. They just aren't that reliable from year to year,

Do those two things follow from one another. If he has a down year this year, then he may well have an up year the next. You sign players based on what you think they will be able to do on average, not on their ups and downs. That is as true of relievers as it is of any other player.

by TT on Apr 1, 2006 11:01 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Not quite.

Good hitters (and pitchers) tend to be consistent from year to year. You don't have guys that hit like Albert Pujols one year, and Christian Guzman the next. They tend to hit at the same level year in and year out. Those are the guys you give multi-year contracts to, both because of their reliability and the fact that they are harder to find.

With mediocre hitters (and pitchers), you can have that kind of variation- but those are the guys you don't give long-term contracts to. And you can find guys like that pretty easily.

Likewise with most relief pitchers. They aren't reliable enough to give multi-year contracts to, especially when effective relief pitchers (at least for a year or so) can be dug up lamost anywhere, at little cost. I don't want a guy who "on average" will put up solid numbers. I want somebody who puts up solid numbers every year. Otherwise, it's just not worth it to give these guys multiyear guaranteed contracts.

by calig23 on Apr 1, 2006 1:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

dont like to use word "stupid"

cuz its too presumptious on several fronts.

but giving a job to anderson and trading chris young dont seem too advisable...

clealy, young's the better player.

but being world champs, they're not stupid, so i guess they had their ressons.

by dryice on Apr 1, 2006 11:24 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

ps

giving a job to mienk,,

when there class a good fielding, toothpick wielding utility middle infielders around..

who at least might get better..

not THATs -

....

inadvisable

by dryice on Apr 1, 2006 11:28 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

what the...

by greg456 on Apr 1, 2006 5:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think he means...

Signing Doug Mientkiewicz when you could easily promote a single A prospect at first base who is great with the glove and can put up a near .700 OPS.

Which you could for a fraction of the cost. Especially at first base. Carlos Pena is on waivers...

by TheCouga on Apr 2, 2006 5:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Huh?

Is this English?

by sasquatch83 on Apr 1, 2006 6:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Any time you see...

the character string "Mientkiewicz", you can question if it's English.

by JayhawkTom on Apr 2, 2006 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

think you understand fine quashman

contrary to popular opinion..
vegetables can read

by dryice on May 25, 2006 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Belly full of guts Bubba Crosby

Making the roster over a million other candidates for backup outfielder. Especially Kevin Thompson. Fuck that

by PooNani on Apr 1, 2006 12:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

How 'bout Piazza?

How about the Padres signing Piazza for $2 mil. An over-the-hill offensive catcher with poor receiving skills signing with an NL team in a pitcher's park. Wasted money. He should have taken less money to sign with an AL team in a hitter's park so he could at least leave the game with some dignity. Don't know what the Padres are expecting.

But Soriano's still your clear winner, or loser, as the case may be. And I'd probably put the Batista signing #2.

"Baseball is dull only to dull minds." -Red Barber

by e 6 on Apr 1, 2006 12:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

2 mil is nothing

Piazza will be well worth that.

by The Colonel on Apr 1, 2006 4:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Terrero

Not that this ranks with the worst moves of the offseason, but interesting that the D-Backs waived Terrero. I realize the bloom is off the rose for him, and they've got a million guys at the higher levels of the organization they'd rather give playing time too, but for a guy that was at one time a very highly touted prospect, they couldn't find anyone to trade him to?

"Baseball is dull only to dull minds." -Red Barber

by e 6 on Apr 1, 2006 1:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

a few more suggestions

I'd like to suggest that this award be named The David Ortiz Medal.

Paul Konerko, superstar contract for a marginal All-Star.

The Thome and Vazquez trades, for sheer prospect strip-mining in trades for (a) a player of dubious value and (b) a player to fill a dubious need, might also qualify.

It's tough to top Wilkerson-for-Soriano, but just giving any big-league contract to Tony Batista just might be worse.

Demoting Ryan Church may deserve a nomination but not a win.

Danny Graves? Please. Just how huge a screw-up can it be to take a guy who was a big-league closer one year ago and make him your seventh reliever? Not a serious candidate.

One final nomination ... to the Devil Rays, for NOT pulling the trigger on a three-way deal that would have netted Andy Marte for Julio Lugo. That will not look good, very soon, and for a long time.

by Jay on Apr 1, 2006 3:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Jay

I've said it about 5 times on this site, but I'll say it again. The Rays were never offered Marte. There was no three way deal. The Rays were the Braves back-up plan if they couldn't get Edgar Renteria. The Sox never offered the Rays Marte for Lugo. It never happened. The GM said that they would have definitally pulled the trigger if Marte was offered, but it just wasn't the case.

"Chuck Lamar, you're fired"- Stuart Sternburg.

by Tyler on Apr 1, 2006 3:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Come on...

Come on Tyler... Rumors are so much more interesting than the Truth...

by CrimsonLiederhosen on Apr 1, 2006 4:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah

He wasn't talking truth, he was talking truthiness.

by sabernar on Apr 2, 2006 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Demoting Ryan Wagner!!!!

He's the most talented of the Cincy RPs and had by far 1 of the better springs.

by Havok1517 on Apr 1, 2006 4:23 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Batista

I agree-Tony Batista as a starting 3b when Cuddyer or even Tiffee are available on your roster???? That must be it.

Also, last week when the Royals continued their parade of ignorance by taking Graff when they already have Grudzielanek.

They are the same guy!!

I won't get married until the Red Sox win the World Series. AGAIN!!

by Shep on Apr 1, 2006 4:36 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Rockies

Nobody's mentioned this (because nobody pays a lot of attention to the Rockies) but trading Marcos Carvajal, a 21-year-old righty who pitched well at Coors Field last season, for career backup catcher Yorvit Torrealba was a pretty dumb move. Now Torrealba's hurt and the Rockies are actually going to have Danny Ardoin as their opening day starter behind the dish. Good one, Dan O'Dowd.

by Tcs5384 on Apr 1, 2006 5:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Actually

Torrealba is thought of highly by scouts...and it is believed that he could break out if given the chance, and hes only 27...

btw...the Mariners designated Carvajal for assignment today in favor of some 31 yr old pitcher...talk bout a move for a team that has no chance this year...

by bballfanlvnv on Apr 1, 2006 10:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Everything the Dodgers do

How about the Dodgers pretending they're contenders for something this year? They sign Garciaparra, Mueller, Cruz Jr., Lofton, Alomar Jr., Tomko, and extend Kent's deal to create one of the most uninspiring Dodger teams ever (as a fan). Once again, the overhyped Dodger farm system produces nothing.

Congratulations on winning the NL West (led by a GM from 1964) with 83 wins this year and then getting spanked in the NLDS. Wheee.

by coreyt on Apr 1, 2006 6:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Another classic Bowden move...

Not on the top of the list because of bigger name contenders, but: letting Darrel Rasner go for nothing to the Yanks after he pitched pretty well last season.

by Stephcaflowne on Apr 1, 2006 7:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Releasing Tuffy Rhodes

He would have dominated.

Nolan

by Nolan on Apr 1, 2006 8:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Yesterday's Juan Dominguez trade

Texas sending Juan Dominguez to Oakland for Freddy Bynum and John Rheinecker. When are general managers are going to learn, don't deal with Billy Beane!

by sdbaseballfan on Apr 1, 2006 11:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Unless you're Dave Dombrowski

And get Jeremy Bonderman and change for Jeff Weaver.

Pena and German had a decent shot at breaking out, but both are probably finished with the Tigers right now. But I'd take Bonderman for Weaver any day. Of course, that was a three-team trade, and the A's got Ted Lilly and John Ford-Griffin for it, but the team that really made out was the Tigers with Bonderman. Jeremy already had an average Jeff Weaver season in the majors at the age of 22 last year. Weaver is a career #3 starter with a cancerous clubhouse attitude. Bonderman could very possibly be a future ace and a clubhouse leader.

by TheCouga on Apr 2, 2006 5:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Kielty for Lilly

Wasn't a bad deal for Toronto either.

by TT on Apr 2, 2006 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ken Williams pointed out the other day....

Williams landed Neal Cotts as a thrown-in the Keith Foulke for Billy Koch, Joe Valentine and Mark Johnson and feels like he has never gotten credit for that.

by sdbaseballfan on Apr 2, 2006 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Last year's worst transaction

This trade would have won in a landslide this season. Jorge Sosa for Nick Green.

by sdbaseballfan on Apr 1, 2006 11:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

re

For strictly spring roster decisions, demoting Orvella is definitely the dumbest imo. Dumbest spring decision overall has to be Tony Batista being picked as the starting third baseman for the Twins (sorry John.)

by bootsy on Apr 1, 2006 11:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Reds 1B

I guess signing Scott Hatteberg is not the dumbest thing a GM could do. But then you get not one but two shots (Choi and Pena) to massively upgrade at the position with a young guy with promise - and you decline. Look, no one thinks that Choi and Pena are Prince Fielder, but what exactly are you expecting out of Hatteberg?

by erghammer on Apr 2, 2006 12:04 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Hatteberg

Well... he has good taste in books...

by CrimsonLiederhosen on Apr 2, 2006 12:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

PICKIN' MACHINE!

by The Colonel on Apr 2, 2006 3:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Can we go back to last year?

Signing Armando Benitez....

by WalrusMan on Apr 2, 2006 1:49 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Actually

Now that I think of it, the much dumber move by the DRO was keeping Luis Ordaz and his career sub-600 OPS over Russ Branyan when the team already has another more than competent backup middle infielder (Nick Green) and doesn't have any viable platoon options.

"If there wasn't nine guys out in the field, I'd have a hit every time except when I strike out." - Delmon Young

by Brickhaus on Apr 2, 2006 3:54 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I'd have to go...

with the Marte, Mota, Shoppach for Crisp, Riske and Bard

The Red Sox give way too much.

by marinerjohn27 on Apr 2, 2006 3:54 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Again?

Do we have to go over this one again? Immediate potential all-star in a position of need for a stack of prospects. Marte is a great prospect, but that's all he is, a prospect, and that's not what the Sox needed.

by CrimsonLiederhosen on Apr 2, 2006 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed.

Marte may turn out, he may not. It's not like that's never happened. The Sox needed players for this year. Crisp/Riske are known commodities.

"Second guessers are guys that could have never gotten it right the first time." - Tommy Lasorda (for guys that have no other defense for their actions.)

by slurve on Apr 2, 2006 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Plus

It's not like Coco Crisp is Larry Anderson, he's a young CFer about to enter his prime. I hated losing Marte, but this was a great deal for the Sox.

by CrimsonLiederhosen on Apr 2, 2006 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Perkins

The Blue Jays should have dropped Ryan Houston from their 40 man roster instead of Vince Perkins, who is younger and better, but thats hardly a major blunder.

by Anders on Apr 2, 2006 4:08 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Royals head shakers?

Ok the Royals keeping Luke Hudson and Steve Stemle over Peralta and Andrade-just dumb, the Royals keepimg Paul Bako(who cares about his big dpring) instead of picking up a Guillermo Quiroz or even keeping Paul Phillips, the Royals signing Graffanino instead of trading for Brandon Phillips or Freddie Bynum...the Royals keepimh Costa(who I like-but he needs to be in AAA) instead of Ambres or Guiel-just a awfully stupid team, see ya Baird have fun in the Northern League

by gashousegang on Apr 2, 2006 4:29 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Can we just put a blanket statement

covering everything the Nationals and Royals do?

by Zonis on Apr 2, 2006 4:55 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Jerome Williams,

23 innings in Arizona is nothing to base a decision on; the Cactus League is even more meaningless than the Grapefruit League.

My problem with Zumaya in the bullpen is that if he does well, he could be typecast, a la Gagne or Madson, or apparently Heilmann, and never see the rotation, which would not only be bad for the team, but unfair to him and his future career earning-power.

I don't think Liriano in the bullpen is so stupid, necessarily, because the Twins' reasoning is probably something like this:

Hope Lohse has a superficially low ERA until the middle of July.
Trade him to a desperate contender for something valuable (like to the Rangers for Blalock, finally).

:
3. Put Liriano in the rotation with 40-50 more MLB innings under his belt.

If Lohse is bad, that only changes things slightly; Liriano still goes into the rotation, but there's justification for taking Lohse out.

The Cardinals plan for Reyes may be similar: another half a season of AA, and a deadline trade of Jason Marquis.

by Vaux on Apr 2, 2006 8:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

It's not just

the stats. Williams looks terrible. You have to take ST stats with a grain of salt for the most part, but I believe they give a pretty accurate indication as to just how bad Williams has been this spring. He wasn't disregarding performance and just working on things - its not like he was just out there working on a specific pitch regardless of how bad he was getting hit. Couple that with how awesome Sean Marshall looked and you have a ticket for the #5 spot.

Williams is a notoriously slow starter. This year he went above and beyond the call of duty to make this obvious. Marshall is the hot hand and will rightfully get the ball to start the season - he earned it. I don't think even Dusty the Abuser has any ideas that this kid is gonna be in the rotation all year and give him 180 IP+. You have to give yourself the best chance to win right now. Sean Marshall provides a better chance right now. Let's not forget that Williams was in SF when Dusty was there. This is Dusty passing up on one of "his boys" as he is frequently accused of, in favor of a rookie - something else he is notorious for not liking to do - play rookies (not that I agree he really deserves this reputation). Dusty generally will give the vet the benefit of the doubt - the level these 2 are at right now are polar opposites - so much so that Dusty is actually palying a rookie over a guy he really likes. Good enough for me.

Marshall will come back to earth at some point. If he's really bad and Williams has shown he's ready to go, the roles will reverse and Marshall may spend some time in AAA or even AA.

"Second guessers are guys that could have never gotten it right the first time." - Tommy Lasorda (for guys that have no other defense for their actions.)

by slurve on Apr 2, 2006 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Zumaya.

He has nothing left to prove in the minors. N-O-T-H-I-N-G. Typecast? What like some TV/movie star? C'mon. Gagne isn't a starter - he sucks after a few innings and starts to get hit. Madson is moving to the rotation this year. Santana - goodbye bullpen, hello Cy Young. Pedro Martinez is another example. I don't see any of these guys and immediately think "reliever" like I do when I see Bob Denver and think "Guilligan."

Sorry, baseball players don't get "typecast." This is a ridiculous idea and means nothing in the real world. TONS of pitchers have started out in the pen and have gone on to be very successful starters - baseball's TV audience was able suspend their disbelief that a guy they were used to seeing come in later in the game was now out there to start.

The other thing about Zumaya is he needs a 3rd pitch to be a starter. Until he develops one, he has no business in the rotation, AAA or otherwise. He gets another pitch, he'll be in the rotation - he fails to get one and he will become a very dominant closer. This exactly what happend to Santana. He developed a nasty change-up and they couldn't get him in the rotation fast enough. The Tigers feel he will have the best chance to develop his change-up working out of the big league pen while working with the big league pitching coaches.

"Second guessers are guys that could have never gotten it right the first time." - Tommy Lasorda (for guys that have no other defense for their actions.)

by slurve on Apr 2, 2006 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

With Todd Jones

going on the DL, his opportunity to close may come sooner rather than later.

"Second guessers are guys that could have never gotten it right the first time." - Tommy Lasorda (for guys that have no other defense for their actions.)

by slurve on Apr 2, 2006 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I will say it again because it is by far the worst

The Twins signing Chris Farley err Tony Batista to man the hot corner

by Terry Ryan Jr on Apr 2, 2006 12:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yorvit Torrealba/Marcos Carvajal/Luis Gonzalez

Mariners appear to absolutely screw over the Rockies by getting one of their best pitching prospects and an intriguing Rule 5 Pick. By the end of Spring Training, Gonzalez is returned and Carvajal has been DFA'd, sure to not clear waivers.

by I'm NOT Corco on Apr 2, 2006 5:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Not sure

who's getting screwed in this one. Are the Mariners screwing the Rockies or themselves? I have no idea why they DFA'd Carvajal... though I also have no idea how a 21-year-old player would be out of options.

by Tcs5384 on Apr 2, 2006 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

he's not out of options

is the weird part. He was a Rule 5 pick last year, so he still has all 3 option years left.

by I'm NOT Corco on Apr 2, 2006 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

correct

he is not out of options...I dont know what the Mariners are doing. Hes a 21 year old pitcher...

by bballfanlvnv on Apr 2, 2006 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Brad Ausmus -- Bulletproof?

Unless the Astros plan on throwing Eric Munson or Mike Lamb behind the dish, they don't have a backup catcher on their 25-man roster.

by StickRat on Apr 2, 2006 7:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Munson...

... is the backup.

Works for me; Munson might learn how to field, but Chavez is never gonna learn how to hit. If Munson proves incapable of handling the position, easy enough to reverse it.

and boom goes the dynamite.

by Mean Dean on Apr 2, 2006 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

They'd be better off ...

... with Craig Biggio squatting every fifth day. I like the idea of giving Munson a shot, but why not just keep three catchers?

by StickRat on Apr 2, 2006 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rocking the boat

I'm going to chime in a say that I don't think the Soriano deal is a terrible one in a theoretical sense.

I don't think either player was really in the Nats' long term plans (neither was Sledge, and Galaraggo doesn't look like much to me on paper), so the question for me comes down to which player will be more valuable in trade come July. And I don't think there's much question that Soriano has more trade value in July than Wilkerson. Either will play OF once it's established that Soriano can play OF (and I really didn't doubt that would happen either, once Soriano realized he could chose between sticking to his guns on ONLY playing 2B or getting ten million dollars). Both hit about the same, but Soriano can offer the ability to play 2B and name value. Regardless of what you think of either player, the headline "X Acquired for Stretch Run at Playoffs" sounds much better when X = Soriano.

All this being said, I have full faith in Bowden's ability to not milk this line of thought, either by holding on to Soriano in July, or cashing him in for Alex Escobar.

by superpriebe on Apr 3, 2006 9:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

That would be impressive

All this being said, I have full faith in Bowden's ability to not milk this line of thought, either by holding on to Soriano in July, or cashing him in for Alex Escobar.

Impressive because most of the references I can find have Escobar as being on the Nationals roster. Baseball Reference said he also played with the Brewers last year, but if anyone can pull off a trade with themselves, I believe in Jim Bowden.

by drjayphd on Apr 3, 2006 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hilarious

...I just came up with Escobar because he seemed like exactly the kind of essentially-worthless player that Bowden would pay out the nose for.

How about Esix Snead instead?

by superpriebe on Apr 3, 2006 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dodgers - NOT putting Dioner Navarro on the DL

it seems like nobody worries about this one, but i can see major re-percussions.. i think it'll play out like this:

Navarro is 22 yo and just pulled a hamstring last week .. Russell Martin, 23 yo and better prospect is coming off a hot spring training and starting in AAA with an in-season callup imminent.. but Navarro isnt a bad prospect either .. so the Dodgers have 2 really good young catchers on their hands
Navarro HAD starting catcher locked up, but now he's set back a little .. it gave Martin an opportunity to move up the latter, and he defenitly did with the strong ST.. even though he hasnt played outside of AA yet, he's closing ground on Navarro fast
Dodgers don't place Navarro on DL .. Martin to AAA, Sandy Alomar holds the fort temporarily, with Navarro being "nursed" back to health

now this is were it gets ugly

4. what happens next? ... Navarro is a kid. he knows Martin is breathing down his neck, so he's gonna play his ass off to prove he deserves the job.. its gonna make him a very HIGH RISK for re-injury ... even if he's told to take it easy and play 80%, the adrenaline will be pumping 100% no matter what...

so i think a major hamstring injury is on the way, much worse then what it is now .. and potentially destroying his career

after major hamstring injury - Navarro finally goes DL ... RUSSEL MARTIN CALLED UP TO PLAY EVERDAY C.....
i dont think Martin is quite ready.. he's close, but he's coming off only his first good season and hasnt hit over 15 hr yet.. is he really David Wright or Jeff Francouer were he can zoom off a couple weeks in AAA and then play in the majors? .. a half year, or even full year in AAA would do him alot of good .. but thats probably not gonna happen
Navarro still hurt... Russell Martin has mediocre rookie season.. mostly trying too hard and trying to keep up at the MLB level.. finishes with something like: 230 avg, 7 hr, 5 sb .. he's also a potential injury risk for being rushed and trying too hard
i think Martin will bounce back if he has a tough year like this, but you never know how it might effect him mentally, if he bombs

THE END

sorry this was so long.. but i dont think the Dodgers are handling this right at all... Alomar and Ross should split time until the all-star break..... i'm mostly scared for Navarro

by ufo on Apr 5, 2006 1:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Royals A-Ball

How does a left-handed power hitter who, after a late start, still posted .282/.385/.498/.883, 12 team leading home runs and 44 RBI's in Idaho Falls not make the Burlington Bee's roster?

If you don't allow potential to develop are you really making the best decisions for the teams future?

by royalonlooker on Apr 5, 2006 2:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs