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Around SBN: MLB Trade Rumors: Edwin Jackson to the White Sox, DC next?

2007 Fantasy Smackdown - Anthony Reyes vs. Matt Garza

Who represents the most reliable fantasy keeper between these two young pitchers in a 5x5 league?  It would seem to me that most would think that Garza's ceiling is higher. But, for strictly 2007, is he better?  He had a rocky start and may not even be in the rotation.  Reyes has to be written in the rotation in pen for St. Louis, as they have few options.  And without the DH, he's looking pretty good.

Thoughts?

Poll
Who would you rather have on your fantasy team
Anthony Reyes
73 votes
Matt Garza
97 votes

170 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 14 comments |

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easy money
reyes is far and away the choice...garza has jumped a lot of levels very quickly, and his numbers, while impressive, each occurred in under 60 IP...hitters haven't had a lot of time to look at him in the leagues he's succeeded in, and I would hesitate to expect a strong fantasy contribution from him, particularly in comparison to Reyes, who will have as good an offense behind him, no DH, and frankly, was plenty dominant at AAA over several more innings.  

Reyes actually only got about 35 more innings than Garza in the bigs, but he maintained a much better WHIP, and he'll have a much longer leash...

by BGWoodsman on Dec 29, 2006 4:41 PM EST reply actions  

Reyes
Of course I'll say Reyes, but that's for 2007.  Garza would probably be the choice in 2008 and beyond, but Reyes will definitely be in the Cardinals rotation this year and could easily win 13-15 games if he stays healthy.

His 2006 numbers may look worse because of his final start of the year on 3 days rest vs. Milwaukee.  Reyes isn't really the type you should throw out on 3 days rest on the last day of the year and he didn't look good at all.
But Reyes has good control and can get the strikeout.
Probably won't top 200 innings, but I'm hoping for 180-190 or so with a 4.20-4.40 ERA.  Will be 20 times better than Jason Marquis.

by UncleBuck44 on Dec 29, 2006 5:05 PM EST reply actions  

On a side note
Anthony Reyes may be better off in the AL

vs. Chicago(A): 8 INN, 1 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 0 BB, 6 K
vs. Detroit: 8 INN, 4 H, 2 R, 2 ER, 1 BB, 4 K
vs. Kansas City: 6.2 INN, 4 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 1 K
vs. Cleveland: 5 INN, 4 H, 2 R, 2 ER, 4 BB, 3 K

The AL is full of free swingers and HR hitters.  While Reyes is prone to giving up the long ball, he is better off against the free swingers(watch Game 1 of the World Series) than he is against the pesky hitters of the NL(watch NLCS game 4).
Reyes really only has two good pitches: fastball and change, and when the pesky hitters see enough of those two that is when they rip him. Whereas the free swingers may go after the first fastball they see and then get the changeup the next AB and allow Reyes to work longer into the game.  Although, his curveball got better as the season wore on which is why I think he'll do fine next year.

Also, a lot of Cardinal fans believe Reyes struggled in July and August because Dave Duncan was trying to turn Reyes into a sinker baller when, like I said, he's more of a flyball pitcher using a 4 seamer.

by UncleBuck44 on Dec 29, 2006 5:11 PM EST reply actions  

I like them both
I just drafted both of them in my league, so I like them both...but would give Reyes the slight edge on experience.  Both should have nice careers.  

by Highwood61 on Dec 29, 2006 6:00 PM EST reply actions  

funny
how all the comments are for Reyes yet the votes are for Garza.  

anyhow, i'll take reyes too. he has more experience, and more seasoning in the high minors.  but, more importantly, the question is would rather face the tigers, chisox, and indians or the astros, cubs, and brewers?  pretty easy answer for me...

by Dfarth on Dec 29, 2006 6:16 PM EST reply actions  

votes...
well, I think prospect lovers quickly take the bloom off the rose(or get realistic about the ceiling) of a prospect who doesn't emerge quickly in the majors anymore. Garza is perceived as a minor leaguer who got roughed up at the end of a fine season.

Reyes is a major league rookie who didn't reward his backers with flashes of greatness...who cares that he was just as good as Garza in AAA...Reyes was evaluated as a big leaguer this year, but he is ahead of Garza, at least for now...

by BGWoodsman on Dec 29, 2006 11:03 PM EST up reply actions  

blogs...
There must have been a Twins blog that gave a mention to this poll =).

by nyr2k2 on Dec 30, 2006 2:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Similar
I watched a couple of Reyes's starts and nearly all of Garza's.  They strike me as fairly similar pitchers...California college righties with a wide repertoire and solid offerings across the board.  I think they're going to be about equal in value this year, but I'd tend to draft Garza because I think his curveball is the best strikeout pitch of the two pitchers and his HR tendencies aren't as scary.  We all saw what a few poorly timed longballs can do from Josh Beckett this year.  Garza doesn't have that downside.  For next year it's fairly close though.

by limozeen on Dec 29, 2006 8:36 PM EST reply actions  

Reyes
I like Garza alot, but went Reyes. A big factor that helped tip the scale for me was the pitching coaches. Dave Duncan is one of the very best. He's turned alot of guys around.

My opinion of Rick Anderson is much less. I think Santana is pretty much master of his own domain so I don't give Anderson too much credit there. I couldn't imagine Radke needed much help either. But the less established guys? Wow, he let Liriano throw 40-50 sliders a game. Meanwhile Silva, Baker, Lohse and Crain all performed very awfully for extended periods of time. Those guys had too much talent to post ERAs over 6 for extended stretches before being able to make corrections.

I'm sure some Twins fan will disagree. But my opinion is I trust Duncan far more.

by natsfan2005 on Dec 29, 2006 11:57 PM EST reply actions  

Right
No credit to the guy whose team has led the league in strikeouts, fewest walks, and whose philosophy has turned around hopeless cases like Dennys Reyes?  I think there's a legitimate argument to be made that Rick Anderson's no-walk system is the most significant development in pitching coaching ever.

by limozeen on Dec 30, 2006 6:01 PM EST up reply actions  

which
is why he couldn't help Jeff Weaver or Jason Marquis  .  Of course, Leo Mazzone couldn't help Marquis either...  but the teams Duncan works for rely on him too much.  

by Vaux on Dec 30, 2006 6:10 AM EST reply actions  

weaver?
Duncan did help Weaver quite a bit. In his last 11 starts, including postseason, he allowed 3 runs or less 10 times. Postseason ERA was 2.43. Considering how horrendous Weaver was with the Angels this was rather miraculous.

I'll give you Marquis. But the Cardinals really didnt have to leave him in long enough to give up 12 earned in 1 start and 13 earned in another. If they used a more sane hook with him his stats wouldn't have been THAT bad.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6493/gamelog

by natsfan2005 on Dec 30, 2006 12:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Marquis
Jason Marquis stopped listening to Duncan in 2006.

Tony LaRussa even made it pretty apparent that they were fed up with Marquis near the end of the season because he always appeared to be pitching without a game plan and that Marquis thought he was a different type of pitcher than he actually was. (TLR said these things in the STL P-D)  TLR said Marquis can't go out there thinking he's a power pitcher when he's only throwing 88-92 MPH.

Marquis was 15-7(one more win than he had in 4 years in ATL) with a 3.71 ERA in 2004 and 13-14 with a 4.13 ERA in 2005 under Duncan.  I'd say Duncan did A LOT better than Mazzone did.

As for Garza having the better outpitch of the two, I'd hold up on that one.  Recently I read a story that rated Reyes as having the best changeup(or maybe it was "one of the best" but I'm pretty sure they said he had the best) in the National League.  It kind of surprised me, but I guess I can see that.

by UncleBuck44 on Dec 31, 2006 2:14 AM EST reply actions  

Pedro
Doesn't that Pedro guy still pitch in the NL?  I wouldn't be surprised if it was one of the best though.
Rios is the next Juan Gonzales, thats right, I said it.

by KaoticKlown on Jan 3, 2007 9:49 AM EST up reply actions  

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