Minor League Ball: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:



Around SBN: Gameboard, Set, Match: Milton Bradley Signs With Cubs Bar-right-arrows



Miggy the Cancer?

I absolutely HATE hearing stories like this, especially with someone so young and so full of potential.  It makes me appreciate guys like Pujols and Tex who don't say booo and go about their business.

I wonder if the media isn't blowing this up though?  When guys like Conine chime in though, you know it's gotta be a decent-sized story...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2174699

0 recs | Comment 25 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

This is ridiculous...
which veteran on that team can tell anything to Cabrera he doesn't know.  When Cabrera was on the Mudcats, he was the most dogged player on the team.  You don't get that good by screwing around.  He's very business like.  I remember a quote in a recent edition of ESPN Mag where he was asked who he would most like to have dinner with.  His response, "Manny, Ortiz, and Vlad."  Why? "So we could talk about hitting all night."  Jeff Conine should STFU and stop worrying about the future of an inner-circle HOFer.  Stopped shagging fly balls? Stopped shagging fly balls?  Is this a joke.  This has nothing to do with work ethic.  This is some stupid pre-game ritual that people are making a big deal out of.  If any of those veterans who are speaking out would have anything close to the year Cabrera was having, the Marlins would be coasting to the playoffs.  Until then, they should stop worrying about the best player on the team and just be happy they get to tell their grandchildren they played with him one day.  You could get rid of this "clubhouse cancer" and we can all go ask Daunte Culpepper how that's working out.

by templeUsox on Sep 28, 2005 4:59 PM EDT   0 recs

Cabrera
If Cabrera was a decent defender, I might agree. But he's really either average or a tick below defensively. There is no reason to get rid of him, someone just needs to tell him how it reflects for him...I think all of this comes from Miggy throwing McKeon under the bus though.

by Marc Normandin on Sep 29, 2005 6:16 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I feel the same way
I like how the "big tough-guy" veteran Conine left "the talking to" up to another player.  Nice vet he is.  I'd get in line behind him. <sarcasm>

It is clear jack McKeon is an absolute joke of a manager and it's a disgrace he got lucky and won a World Series.  This ship is sinking fast.  This comes right on the heels of Burnett's meltdown too.  I don't think it's too coincidental.

by So Cal Bob on Sep 28, 2005 5:09 PM EDT   0 recs

Not to bring up...
bad memeories, but he did out-class Baker in the NLCS. ;)
"Second guessers are guys that could have never gotten it right the first time." - Tommy Lasorda (for guys that have no other defense for their actions.)

by slurve on Sep 28, 2005 5:54 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

his horses were better
and his Alex Gonzalez could actually field a clean 2 hopper for a DP.

by So Cal Bob on Sep 28, 2005 6:25 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Outclass
Out classing baker isn't tough.  Neither is out-managing him.

by CrimsonLiederhosen on Sep 28, 2005 7:02 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

yeah
Like thats an accomplishment

by Marc Normandin on Sep 29, 2005 6:17 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Tony Perez...HOF
Read again what Perez said about Cabrera.  Quote the HOF'er---"Sometimes fame comes too quickly," Perez told the Post. "He has the ability; everybody knows that. He's got a great future ahead of him, but that's up to him."

Concentrate on the words 'great future ahead of him, but that's up to him.'  In other words---quit acting like a B*tch!  Play AND practice like a professional!

Maybe Cabrera doesn't need to listen to Conine but he sure as hell needs to listen to Tony Perez.

by scarfo on Sep 28, 2005 5:45 PM EDT   0 recs

I know when I look...
at Miggy's stats for the last 3 years, all I see is stagnant production and unmet potential.  Or not.  Can we start critisizing players who don't live up to the hype?  Not someone who is on the same career path as Manny Ramirez.  Cabrera is such a cancer that I bet you NL pitchers would immediately vote him out of the league if they could.

by templeUsox on Sep 28, 2005 6:24 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

What?!?
Cabrera's stats:

Age 20: .268/.325/.468
Age 21: .294/.366/.512
Age 22: .321/.382/.557

Who knows what next year's stats will look like, let alone his peak 27-31 years...

His career comp as of right now according to baseball-reference.com is Hank Aaron (who I hear was pretty good in his day.)

My point here is that Cabrera is not the guy to be criticizing because the Marlins didn't make the playoffs.  The kid hits the ball -- period, so let him do his job and lay off.

by Ur on Sep 28, 2005 7:02 PM EDT   0 recs

sarcasm
the "Or not." was meant to suggest sarcasm.

by natsfan2005 on Sep 28, 2005 7:03 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

What ever happened...
to discipline?  Playing the game the right way?

Cabrera is an exceptional talent, no doubt about it.  But if he's not out there shagging fly balls with his teamate, showing up late, then I appluad the decision to bench his ass.  

by cincyinco on Sep 28, 2005 7:26 PM EDT   0 recs

those are two real important
factors in baseball--shagging fly balls and showing up late for treatment he didn't believe he needed.  Yeah I'd bench his ass too.

Both of those make teams win a lot of games.

by So Cal Bob on Sep 28, 2005 7:35 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Sigh
You just dont get it.  He's 22.  He is not entitled to a damn thing.  He is a kid. What makes him special and not have to put in the work that EVERY other guy has too?  Why does he get to arrive late?  Its disrepectful to his teamates, and his manager.  

Discipline is something I think thats long forgotten these days.  Being a professional.  This is a friggin JOB.  

I'll put it this way.  I have metrics that I have to meet in my day to day job.  I exceed them every day.  That does NOT mean I am allowed to show up late, take breaks whenever I want, or decide to not work.  I get disciplined.  Just as Miguel should.  

I realize that Miguel's performance is not the problem... and he's not responsible for the Marlin's woes.  But if he's not being a professional, then he gets benched.  Bottom line, there are reprecusions for your actions.  Look at Demaso Marte.  Same type of situation.  Guillen did the right thing there IMHO as well.  

by cincyinco on Sep 28, 2005 7:56 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I think it;'s safe to say
You don't get it.

If you played the game you would know that arriving early FOR TREATMENT means arriving 1 to 2 hours BEFORE any of your teammates.  And if you knew more about the story instead of typing ignorantly, Cabrera actaully felt fine and didn't want treatment.  His arriving late was not out of disrespect to his teammates or anyone.  Maybe he should have called the trainer to tell him.  Make an example of your best player?  Why?  It makes no sense.

He's earned any entitlement by his oustanding performance and being the face of the organization for the next 10 years.

To compare your clock-punching job to that of a major leaguer is highly laughable.

If shagging fly balls was so important, McKeon or a vet should have said something.  To come out in the paper 2 months after the fact is weak.  Very weak!  And go watch BP, there is not a problem shagging balls with all 10-12 pitchers lined up in the OF and the players kids.  So, what's the issue?  It's someone took exception to having to stand in the friggin' heat and humidity while he chummed it up in the dugout.  Big deal.  

Guillen's tact with Marte was correct and it was not the same.  Guillen felt he wasn't hurt and was dogging it.  Marte felt he was hurt.  totally different.

by So Cal Bob on Sep 29, 2005 1:08 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Sports are totally different...
I can't stand when people make comparisons to their every day jobs to prove a point about sports.  The fact is, if you took 10 extra minutes on a coffee break, or came into work 30 minutes late, most likely no one would notice.  And I can fairly certainly say it would not be a headline on ESPN.com.  You are making a total unsubstantiated claim about Cabrera's discpline that that is based on two quotes from some teammates.  Do you think it took any discipline to get to where he is today?  Natural talent can only get you so far, at some point you need hard work and dedication.  Miguel Cabrera is 22 years old and he has carried a team's offense for an entire season.  If he takes some liberties here and there, I don't really mind.

by templeUsox on Sep 28, 2005 10:07 PM EDT   0 recs

Well
I don't see Derrek Lee showing up late in Chicago, and he carried the Cubs more than anyone carried their team. Same with Brian Giles.

by Marc Normandin on Sep 29, 2005 6:19 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Late for TREATMENT
is not the same as arriving late for a game.

by So Cal Bob on Sep 29, 2005 1:09 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Keep in mind
It's not a coincidence that this story comes immediately after the Burnett incident.  People are rooting around Florida's clubhouse trying to find any hint of dissent they can.

I tend to err on the side of the players until truly damning evidence comes out.  9 times out of ten the media drums this crap up because people need to have something to write about.  We know absolutely nothing about Miguel Cabrera's work ethic, and to judge him on the basis of an article like this is a joke.  

If the Marlins don't want him, I know of about 29 other teams that would jump at the possibility to get the best 21-year-old hitter in baseball on their squad.  

by jhelfgott on Sep 29, 2005 12:42 AM EDT   0 recs

my bad...
22.

by jhelfgott on Sep 29, 2005 12:43 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

not shagging flies
I'm not going to make a huge deal of this. The only thing in the article that truly made me think WTF was:

"Cabrera stopped shagging fly balls in July and August, instead sitting in the dugout with friends from his native Venezuela."

Ummmm, stopped shagging flys? Well, I can live with that. Whatever I suppose. But should his entourage be in the dugout before games? Has this sort of thing has become commonplace and I just didn't know about it? To this outsider it sounds like B.S.

by natsfan2005 on Sep 29, 2005 12:46 AM EDT   0 recs

the issue
The issue seems to boil down this way.
If the story is just an attempt to find more problems in the Marlins' clubhouse then Cabrera is not a cancer.  If the story has some truth then there is the possibility that a problem exists.  The most important aspect is that of the effect his actions have on the team's inter-relationship or chemistry.  Actions such as those suggested by the report invariably affect how other players feel about him.  You don't have to like any of the guys out there you only have to perform.  Other players though do lose respect for him as a professional baseball player.  That is because there are certain things that are expected out of a professional as judged by other professionals. On the field performance is most important but it is not the whole story.  That is because teams with poor chemistry consistently do not perform better than the sum of their parts and often underperform while teams with good chemistry often find ways to play above themselves.  I have played professionally on both types of teams.  I played on a team with good chemistry that managed to definitely outperform all expectations.  The next year certain players were dropped and new "better" players were added.  Some of these guys had "different rules" and did what they wanted.  We finished with the same record as the year before and underperformed by all measurements.  Individually, those guys had good years but in the end without chemistry the team just wasn't as good.  They set a poor example.  They did not make others and thus the team play better.  While the fans and outsiders will not care if all they measure are the statistics of the individual player; the team's wins and losses will in the end be effected by the actions of any player, especially one of his caliber.
It is also an organization and a manager's responsibility to hold each player responsible for his actions and their effects on the team.  A player is human after all.  Attitudes and habits change over time.  A player can lose his good attitude and player's with poor attitudes can develop good attitudes.  
If and only if the report is accurately stating a problem then that behaivor can lead to noticeable differences in a team's overall performance and this is truly where the effect of a "cancer" will be felt.

by RJB7 on Sep 29, 2005 1:54 AM EDT   0 recs

seems like nonsense
Do you have any evidence what so ever that team chemistry leads to better performance? Numerous people have studied in many ways and found no such correlation in baseball. Many World Series champs were 25 cab kinds of teams and many last place teams were all lovey-dovey. There is an observation that winning cab build chemistry and losing can kill it, but here chemistry is an effect, not a cause.

I see two cases where clubhouse cancer stories get out. Sometimes, an overly arrogant manager or veteran is insulted because the players who are expected to be lower on the totem pole don't grovel properly. Other times a reporter feels insulted or is just trying to create a scoop.

An unrelated, but serious, issue is not trying during the game. Sometimes players will do this to try to get a manager fired or some other reason that I fail to see. The Reds this year looked like they weren't trying right before the manager was fired. Lo and behold, they have won much more often since then. Not being privvy to the Reds clubhouse, I have no idea what actually went on, but the effect was obvious on the field. If Cabrera ever starts dogging it on the field, then its a story. Until then, its just sour grapes and irrelevent to anything and anyone except  the insulted party.

by cdamon on Sep 29, 2005 5:06 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

yes
You missed my argument. I agree with you. I did not say that a "25 cab" team could not win a world series.  I said it was possible because sometimes the sum of the parts is great enough to win a World Series.  I said that overall those types of team do not play above themselves.  Conversely, really bad teams playing above themselves can still finish last.
I also agree that winning can build chemistry because that will always smooth egos and other issues while losing often reveals and aggravates them.  
Chemistry brings that extra something that allows a team to play above themselves; to win more games than the sum of their parts would project.

by RJB7 on Sep 29, 2005 6:42 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

quoth Reggie...
"Chemistry?!  Go fuck yourself."

~ Reginald Martinez Jackson

by losgigantes on Oct 1, 2005 12:22 AM EDT   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Minor League Ball: Where the Future of Baseball is Discussed

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Dewey_finn_small
Young Pitcher Abuse
Dewey_finn_small
Trevor Cahill > Brandon Webb?
41291692_small
21-30
41291692_small
11-20
41291692_small
Orioles Prospects 1-10

Recent FanPosts

Small
1B Rankings?
Guillen_small
Pohlad and the future of the Twins...
Small
BA PHI Top 10
Small
24 Team Dynasty First Year Player Draft
Small
Where does Rick Porcello fit?
Shoe_small
Well, we're waiting... paging siddfynch
Small
McPherson vs. Laroche
Batmanbaseball_small
Community Prospect List: #117

Post_icon New FanPost All FanPosts Carrot-mini


Site Meter
Site Meter