You're the GM! Giants Edition
You're the GM! Giants Edition
Not a great year in San Francisco. You're only five games out, which seems respectable until you remember that the first place team is ONE game over .500. Having your best player on the DL most of the season didn't help of course, but even so you shouldn't be too happy about the way things have gone.
Planning for '06, let's take a look at your position players. Bonds is Bonds, still the best hitter in baseball, assuming he's healthy, but he may retire after next year. Alou can still hit, but is an age and health risk. Durham is solid and should remain so. Vizquel is fading offensively. Corner players Feliz, Snow, Niekro, and Alfonzo all have significant weaknesses. Randy Winn is good. What are your plans to boost the hitting attack?
On the pitching side, you have a very good starter in Noah Lowry. Jason Schmidt can be overpowering but is erratic. Brett Tomko is, well, Brett Tomko, brilliant at times but certainly not someone you can count on for consistent above-average performance. Kirk Rueter? Blech. Do you trust Hennessey and Correia as full-time starters? Is Matt Cain ready to start next year?
The bullpen is as problematic as the rotation. Hawkins and Benitez are hardly stalwarts of consistency. Eyre and Munter did good work in middle relief. Can they handle larger roles?
Basically, this team has some talent, but is extremely dependent on Barry Bonds, and much of the supporting cast is aging and/or inconsistent. How competitive do you think you will be in '06? Who is on the trade block? What are you looking for in terms of free agents? And what are you going to do with the farm system?
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Bonds
by cunningt on
Sep 22, 2005 10:51 AM EDT
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suggestion for future your the gm!s
by forage on
Sep 22, 2005 11:00 AM EDT
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Options Aren't Pretty
Hire someone to pour over the rulebooks to see if there's anyway to annul the AJ trade (or if the Twins feel they got too much out of it and just want to give back Francisco Liriano back as a goodwill gesture, for, say, Kevin Frandsen, Todd Linden, Dan Ortmeier and Merkin Valdez).
Pray the Armando Benitez will luck into another 2004. Pray in general. Enjoy watching the money roll in as SRO crowds cheer on Barry's pursuit of Hank.
by Roger on
Sep 22, 2005 11:21 AM EDT
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There are two courses of action
B) Go the way of the indians circa 2002 and blow it up.
The problem with option B is the Giants don't have the prospects at high enough levels that could be deemed ready by 2007 or 2008.
Also, the veterans we have aren't young like Cleveland's were in 2002 so getting a top prospect is unlikely.
No matter what direction we go in I'd like to see the following things done this offseason;
- Bring back Tomko at a similar contract he had this year
- Make Hennessey your 5th starter and trade Kevin Correia for a very healthy mule.
- Decrease the number of Bats for Pedro "Mr .300" Feliz, especially those in which he hits in front of Bonds
- Pray Durham stays healthy and trade him at the deadline if 2006 becomes a repeat of 2005
- Make a decision with Lance Niekro, either give him 500 at bats and see if he can play or trade him for a relief pitcher. With all the depth we have at first base in the system (Ishikawa & EME) option #2 seems likely. JT's not a great hitting option, but if his price tag stays low (around 2 mil) I don't think he's hurting the team that much.
- Let Cain start the season in the rotation. He deserves it, let's avoid a Delmon Young type problem here.
by sfjg85 on
Sep 22, 2005 12:39 PM EDT
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2 Problems
by Roger on
Sep 22, 2005 1:10 PM EDT
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Options
by sfjg85 on
Sep 22, 2005 6:36 PM EDT
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The sunk-cost fallacy is at work here
by deadteddy8 on
Sep 22, 2005 7:06 PM EDT
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Sabean made it clear...
by WalrusMan on
Sep 22, 2005 7:18 PM EDT
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Also
by irwin on
Sep 22, 2005 7:43 PM EDT
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New Direction
by dvail on
Sep 22, 2005 1:16 PM EDT
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agree....
by z4 landshark on
Sep 24, 2005 1:37 PM EDT
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You have to go for it
They gain $2.5M from contracts leaving less raises owed, including picking up Schmidt's option and letting Hawkins go.
They will need to spend more money to win, and the first thing Sabean has to do is show up in Peter McGowan's office and say, "Look. You wouldn't let me sign Vladi and it cost us a world championship. You've got to loosen up the purse strings in advance of taking Barry's $18M salary off the books next year."
Assuming he says yes, the first order of priority is a #2 starter. AJ Burnett or Kevin Millwood would be great. Then they'd have a rotation of:
Schmidt
New Guy
Lowry
Cain
Hennessey, Correia, Kinney
The dream deal would send Alfonzo to the Mets for Trachsel, who has a $2.5M option. The Mets seem to like Fonz, but such a deal seems unlikely.
Then you need to shore up the bullpen. You're stuck with Benitez. You should resign Eyre, who will take a home town discount to stay. You can live with Taschner as a second lefty. You can probably live with Tyler Walker and maybe Scott Munter, but you need to pick up a good mule in the pen.
You need to pick up a solid fourth outfielder to play behind Bonds, Winn and Alou. This will be a 400 AB guy, because both Bonds and Alou will miss a significant number of games.
Then you need to pick up a real man to play first. Niekro is not going to take you to the promised land. You can live with Feliz batting sixth or seventh and playing third. Vizquel and Durham are set, and, if you can't unload Fonzi, then he can be an expensive backup at second and third.
The first baseman is the key acquisition. If you can get Delgado, he would be ideal. Konerko is probably second choice. This leaves you with a pretty strong lineup:
Winn
Durham
1st Baseman
Bonds
Alou
Feliz
Matheny
Vizquel
25 Man roster:
Pitchers
Schmidt
New signee
Lowry
Cain
Hennessey or Correia or Kinney
Benitez
Eyre
Taschner
Munter
Walker
New righthanded relief horse
Hitters
Bonds
Alou
Winn
New 400 AB outfielder
New fifth outfielder signee @MLB minimum
New first baseman
Durham
Alfonzo
Vizquel
Feliz
Matheny
New backup catcher @MLB minimum
Niekro
by 3Com Park on
Sep 22, 2005 1:27 PM EDT
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Alou has already expressed that...
by WalrusMan on
Sep 22, 2005 1:37 PM EDT
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Winn a power hitter?
by count sutton on
Sep 22, 2005 1:57 PM EDT
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well
by irwin on
Sep 22, 2005 1:59 PM EDT
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No, not really a huge power hitter...
by WalrusMan on
Sep 22, 2005 4:11 PM EDT
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Actually I thought
I'd say you're very optomistic predicting 17 wins for Schmidt. That's in the ballpark of his career best, and he just doesn't seem to be getting better at this point.
They have to commit themselves to cutting some of the dead wood though. No matter how much it hurts they have to pitch Fonzie (they might have been able to afford Vladdy if they hadn't pitched 8mil a year overboard on this stiff) and they need to trade Feliz for whatever value he has and that's maybe a decent bullpen arm. And they have to resist the urge to resign Snow. You can't bring in valuable bats if you refuse to get rid of these space eaters on the roster.
by Roger on
Sep 22, 2005 2:02 PM EDT
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Yeah 17 is very optomisitc...
I highly doubt Snow is going to be leaving. Even if he stays, he probably won't be a starter, but he'll be a defensive input. I don't know how many times I've seen Niekro botch a ball that Snow would have just gobbled up.
by WalrusMan on
Sep 22, 2005 4:14 PM EDT
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Winn's power hitting and what Alou said...
The only reason they are thinking of him in the power position is his unusual spurt of power once traded to the Giants. He has averaged 20 AB/HR at SBC, 17 AB/HR overall, since joining the Giants.
Reasons why he's been hitting better and for more power? Maybe being able to go to his home in nearby Danville and seeing his wife and getting home cooking has really relaxed him and released his potential. Perhaps newness in the league but I would have to assume that this would quickly be figured out. I thought this when he started out hot but then cooled off. Then he suddenly got even hotter.
Sabean thought that Winn was more suited for the NL-style of pitching (see article). Winn himself said that he hasn't noticed more fastballs in the NL but that pitchers are more aggressive due to their need to keep their pitch count low, in order to stay in the game. Thus, even if they throw an offspeed pitch early in the count, it is usually a strike. And being an aggressive hitter himself, that has played into his way of hitting.
It also helped, him moving away from SAFECO, as he had a career 48 AB/HR there, but an OK .284/.364/.395/.759 hitting line despite the lack of homers, I guess he made up for it with doubles and triples that didn't become homers.
Not as scientific but certainly fanatical :^) I went to the Giants website and pulled up Winn's hit chart, which shows the location of each of the balls he hit and the result, whether hit or out, at each ballpark. Each field looked like they are scaled the same so I pulled up his hit charts for SBC, SAFECO and Tropicana, his three home parks (for some reason they don't allow an option to see all the hits where they landed with a fenceless field), printed them out, and eyeballed them aligning the diamonds together.
From that admittedly unrobust analysis, I would say that the move from Tropicana and Safeco to SBC would roughly double Winn's homer totals at home.
For Safeco, he had 14 homers there, and just taking all hits and flyouts that are clearly beyond SBC's fence, I counted 15 additional homers plus about another half dozen or so borderline ones that landed approximately where the fence is; some of them were outs at Safeco. In addition, for those who think perhaps the tall wall of RF at SBC would bat back some, most of the additional homers would have occurred along the left field wall and his RF homers were deep, he either hit it hard or he didn't. Based on this, he moves from 48 AB/HR to 23 AB/HR at SBC, or about 26 homers in 600 ABs.
For Tropicana, he had 15 homers there and I counted 10 additional homers, again along the left field fence, plus some half dozen borderline ones. That moves him from 44 AB/HR to 26 AB/HR, or about 23 homers in 600 ABs.
Both of these are close to the rate he has been hitting them at SBC so far, which is 20 AB/HR currently.
A hitter who can hit about 25 homers per year would be OK as a 3rd place hitter, especially since Winn hits LHP and RHP pretty much equally well, OPS .777 vs. .761, respectively. Looking at the change to his SLG with the additional power, it would add about 40-60 points, pushing his home SLG from .416 to about .450-.475, which is pretty good power. And the outs converted to hits would push his batting average and OBP up about 10-15 points, to about .300 and .360, respectively. At minimum, he would be a better hitter there than Feliz or Alfonzo or Snow.
by biasedgiantsfanatic on
Sep 22, 2005 5:55 PM EDT
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I would rather bat
Durham
Winn
New 1B/Alou
Bonds
New 1B/Alou
Feliz
Matheny
Vizquel
It's that whole getting the new 1B thing that's a bit tricky.
by Nick Schulte on
Sep 22, 2005 6:05 PM EDT
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Yes, better but
And you know Felipe is going to bat Moises behind Bonds.
If it helps, Winn for his career has hit for a higher batting average (.278 bases empty/.296 runners on/.286 RISP) which is what you would want from a third place hitter (well, plus good power). At this projected homer rate, he could be the third best HR hitter on the Giants, better than Feliz, as the roster exists right now, and Bonds is slotted for 4th and Alou for 5th.
That would be great behind Durham because Durham gets on base so much.
by biasedgiantsfanatic on
Sep 22, 2005 7:03 PM EDT
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Not many things to do next year....
C: Matheny
1B: Snow, Niekro, Feliz
2B: Durham
SS: Vizquel
3B: Alfonzo, Feliz
OF: Bonds, Winn, Alou, Linden, Ellison, Ortmeier
Really our depth is at 1B, so I expect one of the three to be gone by next season, most liely either Feliz or Niekro. Throw in a prospect and get maybe a starter or another power hitter. Next year's healthy lineup....
Durham
Vizquel
Winn
Bonds
Alou
Snow/Niekro/Feliz
Alfonzo/Feliz
Matheny
Now our pitching rotation if it performs how it could....I could see something like this...
Schmidt: 17 wins
Lowry: 13 wins
Free Agent: 13 winns
Tomko/Cain/Hennessey/Correia/Others: 10 wins a piece for the 2.
Bullpen's not that bad of an area I think if Alou didn't already blow out the arms of Benitez (hasn't had anything but a fastball the past 2 appearances and still no command), Eyre (He's been used in over 80 games), and Munter (he's out for the season with a "tender elbow"), we might be alright. Throw in Hawkins (who really has been good as a Giant), Accardo (took some tough losses against the Dodgers but bounced back), and Agent Jack Taschner (Our 2nd lefty), we'd have a nice bullpen.
Am I a Giants fan? Can't tell can you?
by WalrusMan on
Sep 22, 2005 1:34 PM EDT
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What the Giants should do is...
But since thats not going to happen they need to get someone to help next year and in the future. And that person is ADAM DUNN. Dunn would hit 50 HR's a year at SBC easy and would be someone to build around and keep the fans coming, plus finally give Bonds some real protection next season.
Trade Jason Schmidt, they should have done it before the trade deadline. And Alfonzo, his numbers have been consistent but not for the 7.5 Million they have paid him every year. He is a bust. Between Schmidt, Benetiz, Hawkins and Alfonzo the Giants are WASTING $25 Mil.
Use that money to sign a real closer. Is Billy Wagner still available? Shore up the Bullpen with solid guys . Then Find a good, inexpensive starter to go with the good young pitching prospects you havent traded away yet. Barry Zito??
I guess it goes without saying...The Giants are screwed, they have spent tons of money on old players, traded a ton of propspects for nothing, and will be in the same position next year and even worse in 2007.
The Indians are a perfect example, or the A's, of how to rebuild quick. Get young fast and restock your farm system with quality prospects and pitching. Luckily, the Giants have held on to a few of their pitching prospects. Personally I think the Giants need a new GM, its time for a change all around.... I would hate to be a Giants fan right now.
by fatfrank on
Sep 22, 2005 1:53 PM EDT
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Trade Jason Schmidt
by kenshin1 on
Sep 22, 2005 2:27 PM EDT
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Oh, your right
by fatfrank on
Sep 22, 2005 3:27 PM EDT
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The starting pitching has been much more
Starting ERA: 4.54, 11th in the NL
Bullpen ERA: 4.05, 8th in the NL
And this includes 110.2 IP of 6.26 ERA ball from Puffer, Levine, Brower, Christiansen, and Herges. Who are now all gone.
The seven guys who could probably be back next year: Benitez, Hawkins, Eyre, Walker, Taschner, Accardo, and Munter have combined for 264.2 IP of 3.54 ERA as Giants this year.
by Nick Schulte on
Sep 22, 2005 3:51 PM EDT
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First off....
Trade Schmidt? Who are we going to get for him, another starter? Because that's the only way I'd trade him. We need another starter first.
Benitez will be a "real closer" I believe next year. This year he came back from a 6 month injury in just a few months, and was throwing with his leg on a walker in a few days after his surgery. After he came back he wasn't supposed to be thrown into the closer role. But after Alou overworked Walker and he went down with arm problems, there weren't many options to turn to. And Benitez has done a terrific job I believe.
But I agree with you on one point...we need a new GM.
by WalrusMan on
Sep 22, 2005 4:21 PM EDT
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RE
To free up 06 money, I would attempt to get Alfonzo, Durham, and Bonds to defer some money [with interest] to 07 and 08. I assume they won't. As such, it looks like the Giants have about 12 million or so to spend.
1.) Left handed bats - preferably a 1B,C, and backup ss/2b.
2.) A LHRP - Eyre is not worth the money he will get from New York. Jack Taschner has performed well, and seems to have the stuff to be more thatn a LOOGY. Eyre was a LOOGY, until this year and I am rather skeptical that it is real improvement. Other than that, the bullpen should be solid. It will be a plus if the Giants yougn bullpen arms continue to develop.
3.) A Solid #2 type starting pitcher to back Schmidt
4.) An offseason of rest and rehab for Schmidt, hoping he control returns.
5.) Continued gains by Cain and Lowry.
Bonds, Schmidt, Durham, Correia, Benitez, Alou, and Munter all have serious health concerns. Alou, Bonds, and Durham have been great when healthy, but clearly need quality backups and consistent rest. Benetiz and Schmidt have serious stuff problems at the moment, but look to benefit from an offseason. Correia has a shoulder problem [almost certainly the cause of his lousy last two starts] and Munter an elbow problem - both could be use/fatigue related.
Absent something strange happening, the Giants probably don't have the cash to add a Konerko, Burnett, Washburn, Millwood, Wagner, Damon, or Delgado.
Alfonzo should be gone, along with Snow. They provide little help as backups, and hurt you as starters. I have a hard time believing anyone would take Alfonzo w/out the Giants picking up the tab. Snow has slightly more use, in that he can platoon w/ Niekro.
I would target Estrada and Laroche from the Braves to bolster the hitting. Wilkerson is also a good target.
Dunn's name gets floated around, but I suspect the only way the Giants could get him is by accepting Milton as well.
I would try and get creative - sign a Japanese pitcher if a good one is available.
Feliz is ok as a starting third baseman, but he would make a great utility guy if the found a LH 3B and 1B.
Hank Blalock - what would it take to get him? Probably more than the Giants would be willing to give, but Blalock definitely struggled this year and the Rangers need pitching and OF.
by irwin on
Sep 22, 2005 1:58 PM EDT
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Dunn
I agree with fat frank, it's not a great time to be a Giants fan (with the exception of watching one of the greatest hitters to ever live) because they've locked themselves into a lot of players and don't have the flexibility they need. I also agree that trading Schmidt would be a masterstroke. 13 wins and 4 ERA isn't worth $10 mil, and it's much more in line with his career than 2003 and 2004 were. This is their one chance to turn him into gold because he FA after this.
Any hopes of getting payroll relief from Fonzie are misplaced. He's worth nothing. People talk about the Mets taking him, but they can't play him at 3rd and he's no longer capable of playing 2nd every day. If they get rid of him they'll have to pay the tab themselves and/or pick up someone else's bad contract.
by Roger on
Sep 22, 2005 2:09 PM EDT
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Dunn
It is also possible that if F.Alou is fired, Moises gets traded. [both unlikely, IMO]
Alfonzo for Matsui would be a salary wash, and gives the Giants a backup SS/2b. Maybe he plays better in SF, maybe Edgordo can play 2nd again. I doubt either will happen, but both players are useless to their current teams.
13 wins and a 4.30 ERA gets you a lot on the free agent market. What team would trade for him and give up the pitching you would need in return? The best case scenario is prospects who are unlikely to help in 2006. Rebuilding? Sure, trade him at the deadline to a team willing to pay in prospects.
by irwin on
Sep 22, 2005 2:20 PM EDT
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Felipe fired?
by WalrusMan on
Sep 22, 2005 4:25 PM EDT
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Bonds to 1B
by Arthur on
Sep 22, 2005 2:11 PM EDT
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1b
by irwin on
Sep 22, 2005 2:21 PM EDT
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Bonds doesn't have the quickness.
by WalrusMan on
Sep 22, 2005 4:26 PM EDT
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Giants are not that far off, just need tweaks
I think their main needs are another starter and a power hitting 1B. Schmidt, Lowry, and Cain make a good three-some; trading any of them would be suicide for 2006 unless you get a better pitcher back. Lowry has been as erratic if not more so than Schmidt. Cain has proven that he is ready for the spotlight, Lowry got a starting spot at the start of 2005 with less performance highlights in the previous season.
About the last two rotation spots, Hennessey/Correia will battle for the 5th spot, leaving a free agent for the 4 spot in the rotation; I expect Hennessey to get the spot, he has been Dr. Hennessey and Mr. Hyde both this season and last, so he has to be given the shot in case he can harness it consistently because when he is good, he has been dominating. Matt Kinney will probably get a shot as well but unless he's lights out in spring training, I would rather go with Hennessey and give him more experience in the majors.
Positionally, we have players signed (or with options that will be picked up) for every position except 1B. We have enough minor leaguers to take backup positions on the bench plus Feliz as uber-utility guy.
Random comments on things said above:
I don't see the Giants cutting Alfonzo and his $8M contract but he could be traded for some other team's contract mistake.
Durham has been great... when not injured and he's been injured too much, resulting in a poorer offense when his replacement is in. I can see the Giants trading him for salary relief only, the either move Alfonzo to 2B (if he isn't traded) or perhaps let Frandsen get a chance there.
Vizquel's late season fade has hurt their offense since he has batted 2nd all season. But he was outstanding in the first half, so it must be age or the cold SF weather (or both) getting to him late in the season. Or it could be the depressing circumstances that the team has been in until lately (when it turned to just being glum :^).
And while I want a new 1B, I want to say that Snow's overall power has been severely hurt by SBC so if we get a lefthanded power hitter, he could be neutralized too. His road HR rate has been consistently in the 25-30 AB/HR rate during his years at PBP/SBC until this season, with one blip during one bad season, in 2002. Not too bad, about 20-25 HR season at that rate. For his career though, his SBC HR rate is 50.5 AB/HR, cutting his power in half.
Bonds and Alou are old; luckily Winn is young enough and fast enough to cover a little for them in CF. Also, Linden and Ellison should make good backups for them plus Feliz will usually take over LF when Bonds get a rest.
Tomko is looking for a payday like Kent Benson, $7M/year, he essentially said so in the past offseason, refering to those contracts and saying that he knows he is being underpaid in 2005. I expect him to be like Aurilia, asking for big money and settling for scraps when no one bites.
Eyre has said that he wants to return (though David Bell said the same as well) and, unlike other relievers, have talked very positively about his experiences with Alou. I expect him to sign before he officially becomes a free agent, both sides have indicated they wanted the other. He has not been used as a middle reliever or LOOGY as much this season, he has been one of the main set-up relievers, with Hawkins, since the early parts of the season, once Brower and Herges flopped and were dropped.
Bonds has said that he wants to return for 2007 and pursue Aaron. I expect the Giants to restructure his contract via an extension in order to free up budget in 2006, but it won't free up enough for a top or good free agent starter or 1B unless the Giants also push the budget to $90M. At $18M in 2006, Bonds will probably want something in the $10M range for 2007 (Aaron and all), resulting in $14M each year, saving only $4M. Can't even get Tomko for that. :^)
I think the bullpen will be good enough overall. Benitez will have his good moments, more than most closers, once he is fully recovered from his injury in 2006. Hawkins, I believe, was affected by the racism he experienced in Chicago and the arm problem he had early in the season. He had been lights out in July and August with only recent difficulties. Eyre should be re-signed and with Munter and Hawkins round out the set-up men roles. Fassero (another re-sign) plus minor leaguers, probably Accardo and Taschner, will probably fill out the rest of the bullpen, unless Kinney takes such a role. He could be in the rotation if they cannot sign a better one for a reasonable salary.
If everyone had been healthy and performing to career norms and excluding Bonds, the Giants offense should have been good enough with our pitching to stay close enough to the division leader until Bonds returned in 2005. But all the injuries and poor performances, both hitting and pitching, took a toll.
Luckily, the other West teams have also been hit by significant injuries. Columnists have been mocking the West but the Dodgers lost Drew, Gagne, and Bradley for long stretches of time, the Padres lost Greene, Hernandez, some starting pitchers, Loretta, for long stretches of time, plus Burroughs disappointed them, plus the Giants injuries too. Another blog said that St. Louis lost Rolen and Walker and did OK, but they have a strong lineup up and down, most teams don't have that lineup depth to lose a couple of key hitters and survive, let alone do well, and they didn't lose anyone significant in the pitching corps, unlike any of the NL West contenders.
The comment was made above that the team is old and inconsistent - it was that in 2003 and 2004 as well but did well. The key, obviously, is Barry Lamar Bonds. If he is there, the team will be fine, if he is not there, they will struggle. If they would've signed Vlad like I was writing about back then, then they wouldn't be in this pickle, but they didn't and are.
On trades, obviously players in the farm system will be trade bait as usual. Alfonzo and Durham are probably the top players the Giants are looking to trade to free up budget space; Alfonzo could be gone, as I noted above, for some other team's mistake, I don't think Durham has done bad enough for the Giants to do that, they will probably bring up Frandsen to take his place if he does DL. But he could go to get budget relief.
The farm system is better than advertised. There were several players who came up from the minors (or didn't have a full season experience) and contribute significantly to the team: Lowry, Munter, Taschner, Accardo, Cain, Hennessey, Correia, Ellison, Niekro, Linden. Plus some farm products were traded for other players who will contribute in 2006: Jerome Williams, David Aardsma, Jesse Foppert.
Judging from comments that I read on the Giants farm system, they had a lousy farm system. But a lousy farm system would not have had so many prospects come up and play key roles and perform good as well. Only Lowry and Cain of that bunch were given much hope of contributing significantly, plus some thought Aardsma or Valdez might be able to contribute as well.
I think the Giants also have a number of players getting ready to come up in the 2006-2008 timeframe: Kevin Frandsen, Fred Lewis, Dan Ortmeier, Brian Burres, Pat Misch, Merkin Valdez, Alfredo Simon, Eddy Martinez-Esteve, Nate Schierholtz, Travis Ishikawa, Clay Timpner, Mike Mooney, Marcus Sanders. I also like Joe Bateman for some reason. Not all of them as starters, and certainly some of them took a step back this year, but a number of them should be good enough to be at least a supporting player in the near future. I particularly like Frandsen, Ortmeier, EME, Schierholtz, Ishikawa, and Sanders for greater roles in the future.
I don't know how this compares with other teams, but it is probably as good a bunch of prospects, even without the players who are currently playing for the Giants now but were prospects at the start of the season, that the Giants has had in the past 15 years and one of the best since I've been following them, almost 35 years now.
by biasedgiantsfanatic on
Sep 22, 2005 2:16 PM EDT
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Budget
I think they are committed to around 76 million at this point.
by irwin on
Sep 22, 2005 2:31 PM EDT
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$76 Million
by Nick Schulte on
Sep 22, 2005 2:57 PM EDT
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Addendum and budget
About the budget, I see where some of the differences probably are. First, I made a mistake on Hawkin's salary (that is also an option year as well, need to add to your list). Second, I'm including $1M that was deferred for Rueter. Third, I've noticed lately that most articles refer to Bonds' salary as $18M for 2006 but my spreadsheet had it at $20M (I got this from the old Blue Demon contract site). Fourth, I included Eyre at $2M in 2006 as either we will resign him or get someone of equivalent skill for setup.
However, once I made the correction for Hawkin and added all the players, with prospects filling the final spots, I still get around $82M. Adjusting downward, I get $80M if Bonds is only paid $18M, $79M if you take out Rueter's deferred amount, $77M if you replaced Eyre with a minimum wage player. So I guess we are pretty close if your list don't account for things as I have it.
I'm willing to accept that Bonds is paid less, but I think we need to account for Rueter's deferral and our bullpen needs Eyre or someone like Eyre as the setup man. I don't think Munter is ready for that, especially since his arm went out this year, whereas Eyre likes and wants the extra work, and Walker probably should go back to being between middle relief and setup, he didn't do that well while in the closer role.
With this logic, that would put the total committed to $80M, leaving only $5.3M to acquire a #3/4 starter for the rotation (depends on whether you think Cain is a 3 or a 4). Remember, pitchers like Tomko got more than $5.3M last off season and we were hoping to upgrade on Tomko.
Hopefully Giants management will open up the special "Maddux" fund (mysterious money that was suddenly available when there were trying to sign Greg Maddux and just as mysterious disappeared after that failed and he signed with Chicago) and allow the Giants to get a premier ($10M) player, whether starting pitcher or 1B.
by biasedgiantsfanatic on
Sep 22, 2005 6:40 PM EDT
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I'm counting Hawkins
The biggest discrepancy we have is Bonds. He will be paid only $13M next year with $5M deferred. We will be paying him $5M/year from 2007 to 2011. That wouldn't explain all the differences though, so I'm not sure where else we're off.
by Nick Schulte on
Sep 22, 2005 7:23 PM EDT
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We're close enough
FYI, according to the last CBA, a team can only deferred a total of $2M immediately but must fund anything above that in an accrual account, so they already have to "pay" $3M immediately by putting that aside in a deferment account. Plus, as the payment date approaches, you need to fund the deferred accounting by some accrual formula. That's why I include Bonds full deferment as the Giants have to fund the $3M for this year plus some amounts (not sure exact amount)for past deferments as the payment date approaches. I figure the $5M is close enough.
That's fine about Eyre, I guess that is what one of the things I think we need to do then, is to get Eyre resigned or his replacement, I don't think we have anyone internal who we can rely on deliverying like Eyre. Munter has been a nice surprise (sort of, the Giants were high enough on him to put him on the Arizona Fall League last year) but we don't know how he will do next season; hopefully just as well, but I'm not familiar with how "automatic" a sinkerball pitcher is vs., say, a changeup or slider specialist, but from Lowry and Hennessey's examples, you can lose either "touch" easily.
by biasedgiantsfanatic on
Sep 23, 2005 3:46 PM EDT
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CBA
by Nick Schulte on
Sep 23, 2005 4:10 PM EDT
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Dunn to 1B
by fatfrank on
Sep 22, 2005 2:17 PM EDT
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My 2 Cents
OF is pretty set with Bonds, Winn and Alou. Middle IF is also set, but as others noted, Niekro, Snow and Feliz are not ideal first basemen. I wouldn't pursue any of the weaker FA's/players who can be traded, like Millar, Hatteberg, et al. I'd go hard for Aubrey Huff, personally.
Huff would give you a nice emergency OF and 3B, and be a good everyday 1B. Slide Feliz over to 3B and make Fonzie a backup or at least platoon them somehow. But God knows what it would take to get Huff in a trade.
Pitching really is the issue, and if teams are smart, they'll give Millwood some good money this offseason - certainly not 8 million a year, but good cash. I think Millood is going to end up too expensive for the Giants if they take on a hefty 1B contract - i.e trade for Delgado, sign Konerko long term.
Huff and Millwood together would be at least 10-11 million (Huff is due a little less than 5 I think), and I think that's really not too bad if the Giants are trying to contend next year.
Schmidt is troublesome, but I do like the young arms. At this point, you do have to hope Armando fully recovers. I'd go to the Jays and see if any of their young starters are on the market - the Jays are going to spend big this offseason, and there's a chance they'd also be willing to trade a young pitcher or two. If Ted Lilly is all they'll give you . . . eh. He's at least not expensive.
As others have already noted, there are more injury issues in this lineup than you can shake a stick at. The Giants don't have the minor league depth to bring up rookies if their veterans falter, like the Braves did this year.
It's a huge risk to go for it next year, only if the lineup is already old, and Bonds' contract is a killer. But Bonds is Bonds, and as long as the Giants think they can get contributions from Bonds and Schmidt for the majority of the season, they should go for it.
by sasquatch83 on
Sep 22, 2005 2:18 PM EDT
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Definitely get Huff...
I remember that earlier, it was rumored that the Drays were asking for Rich Hill and some other prospects for Huff. I am not too familiar with Hill, though I know he racks up k's but is a bit old for AAA ( i think 25). From my knowledge, and I may be wrong, I dont think he is a great prospect so it seems that the Drays are willing to deal him.
Feliz would fill a 3B spot for the Drays as well as give them a possible starter. Lamar seems as if he really wants to deal Huff and i think the Giants would be a good fit.
by z4 landshark on
Sep 24, 2005 1:58 PM EDT
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The D-Rays
by irwin on
Sep 24, 2005 5:55 PM EDT
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Alfonzo as a backup?
by fatfrank on
Sep 22, 2005 2:30 PM EDT
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Once again...
by kenshin1 on
Sep 22, 2005 2:33 PM EDT
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Sabeans good moves?
Signing Michael Tucker? Instead of paying that first round draft pick? Or maybe siging Ruben Rivera? Or how about Angel Chavez? OR maybe you liked the trade of NATHAN and LIRANO for A.J.???
As far as Beane he gets too much credit , he's made some bad trades that everyone seems to forget about. Like sigining Arthur Rhodes to be the closer...
But the A's are fighting for a playoff spot IN A REBUILDING YEAR, with injuries to some of their starters, so its hard to argue against the success.
Two different teams going in two COMPLETELY different directions.
And as I mentioned before, Cleveland with the Wild Card lead and a $41 Mil. payroll...
by fatfrank on
Sep 22, 2005 3:38 PM EDT
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Just this year....
Torrealba I was sad to see go, but I'm glad he might get a starters role now. He was due it after Santiago left, but then AJ was signed, then Matheny. He was trapped. Foppert I wasn't all that impressed with. Not this year after the surgery, sure he's not going to be good. But I remember a few years back when he was healthy, I never really liked him. I never thought he could make it and be a big impact.
Winn on the other hand seems to be a very good pickup. He's sparked our offense, and perhaps sparked our winning streak. Sure, when Bonds came back the winning streak got better, but Winn first turned it around.
by WalrusMan on
Sep 22, 2005 4:35 PM EDT
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What about Thome?
A deal that included them taking Fonzie to off-set the first year, then throwing in some cash for the second year is something I could see Sabean doing. Maybe the Giants throw in a prospect or two.
It would be a risk, but a healthy Thome hitting with Bonds and Alou could be a huge reward. Let's face it, the only way Snow is a Giant next year is if the Giants signed a premier RHH 1B (Konerko), and Snow was strictly a LHH backup. They will not endure another year of a slow, slap-hitting defensive specialist as their primary 1B.
A deal like this would also be relatively cheap for next year, enabling them to get a solid SP. I would prefer Morris in this category. I think with Burnnett and Millwood on the market, maybe you can make an early offer (Sabean special) to Morris and get him at a decent price. (4/36).
So here's my roster.. (assuming Thome is proven healthy)
Winn - CF
Durham - 2B
Alou - RF
Teh Lord - LF
Thome - 1B
Feliz - 3B
Vizquel - SS
Matheny - C
#1 - Schmidty (Hopefully rested and ready)
#2 - Morris
#3 - Lowry
#4 - Cain
#5 - Hennessy/Kinney/Correia
Benitez
Hawkins
Eyre - (2 year/ $6M)
Walker
Taschner
Munter
Accardo
Bench - Linden
Bench - Ellison
Bench - Knoedler
Bench - Niekro
Bench - FA middle IF
by mxmob33 on
Sep 22, 2005 2:40 PM EDT
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Thome would be great
The Alfonzo idea is nice, but with the Phillies in contention I doubt they would be willing to take the hit next year.
Morris has had both TJ and at least one shoulder surgery. A 4/36 contract might end up worse than the Alfonzo deal. I wouldn't go more than 2 years for him.
by irwin on
Sep 22, 2005 2:57 PM EDT
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Actually
by sasquatch83 on
Sep 22, 2005 5:13 PM EDT
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Good idea
by biasedgiantsfanatic on
Sep 22, 2005 6:07 PM EDT
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Bold idea
Bonds isn't going anywhere, not because it won't make the team better and not because he won't do it (though both are true), but because he is ticket sales in the bag while he chases Aaron. And I'm glad, because he's a thrill to watch.
Unlike the Braves fans, I am willing to trade a great prospect (Marte) because he has nowhere to play. EME has long been called a hitter who can't play the field, and Casey Kotchman has been called a guy who the Angels aren't going to keep, so swapping them works for me. Use Lance Niekro as a corner IF backup.
I also admit I am holding out hope for Dan Ortmeier to continue to develop. A little power-and-speed guy on the team would be good.
by achiappanza on
Sep 22, 2005 10:03 PM EDT
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*Flashes Gang Sign*
Rotation-wise, Schmidt, Lowry and Cain are there. If possible, resign Tomko cheaply as the fifth starter. That still leaves one pitcher needed.
I have been kicking around in my head the idea of trading for Manny Ramirez - something like Alfonso + Durham + EME for Manny + (something). Then you give the last rotation spot to Hennessey, and make up for the weak pitching staff with the formidable 3-4-5 of Manny, Bonds, Alou.
by Salemicus on
Sep 22, 2005 6:05 PM EDT
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That trade won't net Manny
In the scenario above, the Giants would probably require the Sox to pick up some of Manny's contract. Otherwise, the Giants will be paying almost $40 mil (about half their total money) to two players. So the Sox would be stuck with a dud (Alfonso), an injury prone 2B (Durham), and an excellent PROSPECT (EME), while paying Manny to play elsewhere. They would rather keep Manny's bat and put up his crap.
Besides, where would Manny play? Bonds has LF and he cannot play first. He is not quick enough. Manny cannot be hidden anywhere else on the field.
by count sutton on
Sep 22, 2005 6:23 PM EDT
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They'd give up Manny
by deadteddy8 on
Sep 22, 2005 7:20 PM EDT
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DH in the NL?
by irwin on
Sep 22, 2005 6:24 PM EDT
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I like Barry Bonds
by Nick Schulte on
Sep 22, 2005 7:50 PM EDT
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isn't it hard to write
by So Cal Bob on
Sep 22, 2005 6:26 PM EDT
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Next Year
Alphonzo will be shipped somewhere for someone elses contract mistake or we will pay for 3/4 of his salary for him to go away. I picture the same kind of deal we did with Livan. I could see us sending him to Cincy for Milton if Cincy picks up some of Milton's contract. I think he was destined to fail in that ballpark and he would be much more effetive in SF. Although SBC is more suited to RH flyball pitchers.
For the SP vacancy I think Tomko is gone. I would like to see sabean spend most of the available money here. If he cannot get Millwood or Morris then look into trading for another SP.
For 1b we need to find a cheap platoon partner for Neikro. He has shown that he can hit RH and I think he has a chance to hit lefties as well. Although for next year we cannot depend on him turning it around. I would love to see Sabean trade for someone like Ben Broussard. I know the Indians have been hard up for some RH power so I could see them being willing to trade Broussard for Linden. Linden's 4th OF spot could be filled by Ortmier or a cheap FA who can hit RH pitching. If we can't get a young LH 1b then we should start looking for cheap LH vetran options.
The extra spots on the roster should be filled with players making the minimum. Ellison should be the 5th OF and a utility IF can be found to replace Alphonzo and the other IF possitions. Here is how I envision the roster.
OF
Bonds
Winn
Alou
Linden/Ortmier
Ellison
IF
Durham
Vizquel
Feliz
Neikro
Broussard
UT to be filled by Chavez/Dallimore/Frandsen/FA
C
Matheny
Knoedler/Haad/FA
SP
Schmidt
FA/Trade
Lowry
Cain
Hennesey/Coriea/Kinney/Cheap FA
BP
Benitez
Hawkins
Eyre
Taschner
Walker
Final 2 spots to be filled by Munter/Accardo/losers of 5th starter position.
vs. RH
CF Winn
SS Vizquel
2b Durham
LF Bonds
RF Alou
1b Broussard/LH Bat.
3B Feliz
C Matheny
vs. LH
CF Winn
SS Vizquel
2b Durham
LF Bonds
RF Alou
1b Neikro
3B Feliz
C Matheny
by malarky on
Sep 22, 2005 6:30 PM EDT
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*Gang Sign* (The Dodgers Are Evil)
On to the players: Y'all have identified the needs well. It seems that dumping Alfonzo, handing Feliz the 3B job, and getting a 1B is the order of the offseason. Dunn is the ideal solution. The Giants have a few chips to play with, but unless the Reds are willing to pay handsomely in present-day gains, the chips aren't worth trading. Would you trade Cain for Dunn? Dunn's awesome, but... Cain is so shiny. Would the Reds accept Valdez and Hennessey? Correia? Tyler Walker? Or -- gulp -- Lowry? Some combination of the above? If you're the Reds, why wouldn't you simply reduce Griffey's playing time somewhat in the name of injury prevention, and sub in Wily Mo Pena for another year while you've still got Wily Mo under your collective thumb? Or trade Kearns? I think the Giants are going to have to go elsewhere.
Other teams with "extra" players include the Padres, who aren't likely to trade with a division rival. So, that means Nady and Klesko are out. An intriguing possibility is Mike Piazza. The Mets have their own 1B issues, though, and he didn't exactly look like a Gold Glover in his games there. Besides, he's probably too expensive for the production he'd bring. Might they instead trade Cliff Floyd to make room for Victor Diaz? Is Phil Nevin D-U-N? Millar? What would it take to land Ryan Howard? Is Thome done? How much money would the Yankees pay to unload Giambi? (Would Bonds allow the team to bring him in?)
Ultimately, I think the course the Giants should take, because of cost issues, is to let Snow leave, keep Niekro as a lefty-masher, and roll the dice on Calvin Pickering as a platoon partner. He'll be inexpensive on a one-year deal, and the upside is considerable. Barring a can't-refuse offer for a top-tier 1B (Delgado, Dunn), I don't think the Giants can do much positive in this department.
As for pitching, I think only one signing is in order, because a lot was done this year to settle the bullpen. Hawkins/Eyre/Walker/Munter/Taschner setting up for Benitez looks promising, Walker and Eyre's potential for burnout notwithstanding. For the same reasons Bonds will be with the team next year, there's no way in hell Schmidt won't be with the team. So, Schmidt, Lowry, a free agent, Cain, and whoever doesn't totally suck among Hennessey, Correia, Jerome Williams, and Foppert (no, I'm not bitter). According to mlb4u.com, Ted Lilly will be on the market and could be a solid number 3 if the top names prove too expensive or getting a top 1B precludes spending lots on money on pitching. Since we're only going for one or two years here, Steve Trachsel may also be an option and wouldn't cost too much because the Mets will view his departure as addition by subtraction. And from the I Can't Believe He Has Great Stuff File, Jamey Wright could follow in Brett Tomko's stellar... um... interesting footsteps.
by deadteddy8 on
Sep 22, 2005 6:58 PM EDT
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Trachsel
by finman on
Sep 23, 2005 10:11 AM EDT
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There's just one thing.....
by WalrusMan on
Sep 22, 2005 7:29 PM EDT
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Cain
But you are absolutely correct, he will still be an unproven commodity. It would be nice to have contigency plans in the event he needs more AAA time.
by irwin on
Sep 22, 2005 7:42 PM EDT
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Also
by irwin on
Sep 22, 2005 7:44 PM EDT
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give Cain
He should no way make 33-34 starts and rack up 230+ innings.
by So Cal Bob on
Sep 22, 2005 7:55 PM EDT
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but he will
by irwin on
Sep 22, 2005 8:06 PM EDT
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What the Giants Should Do
This offseason:
Sign some veterans to 1 year deals (Jose Cruz, Tomko, etc.) Hope you make a run because this is will be your last chance at a WS for a while.
Next offseason:
Durham, Bonds, Alfonzo, Feliz, Schmidt come off the books.
- Sign Adam Dunn for 6 years $85 million (if he's not a FA, then trade for him and immediately extend him)
- Make a big push for Barry Zito
- Get rid of Felipe
- Bring in a young manager
- Trade for Joey Gathright
- Play prospects
- Hope you don't lose 100 games
- Sign a bunch of cheap veterans (w/o giving up draft picks and hope that some of the prospects will be ready in the next year or two)
- Egg Sabean's house for leaving you with an almost empty farm system, an old team, and some bad contracts
Cain
Lowry
-----
-----
- Gathright CF
- Vizquel SS
- Dunn RF
- Martinez-Esteve LF
- Dmitri Young 1B
- Russell Branyan 3B
- Spivey 2B
- Matheny C
- Dunn
- Zito
- Branyan's chase for 200 Ks
by UncleMiltie on
Sep 22, 2005 8:55 PM EDT
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Gathright, et al
Oh, and don't you mean Branyan AND Dunn's chases for 200 strikeouts? :)
by deadteddy8 on
Sep 22, 2005 11:29 PM EDT
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Represent!
Schmidt for Delgado. Good for the Fish because it takes his contract off the books and gives them someone to replace Burnett. Good for the Giants since they get a hitter who can actually hit the ball out of the park.
Alfonzo plus a top prospect (Valdez, EME) for Thome and cash. Gives Philly some salary relief and clears a spot for Howard. Give SF that bat they need, but risky because of Thome's health.
Alfonzo, Valdez and a B prospect (Burres, Mazone) for Dunn and Milton. Sure Milton sucks, but he could rebound at SBC and that's the price you pay for Dunn. He has never in his career had a season this bad, so I think a bounceback is probable. At least Alfonzo's contract is gone and of course, Dunn fits the need for a home run hitter.
by The Balls of Summer on
Sep 23, 2005 2:18 AM EDT
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Why would the Reds make that deal?
Yes, the Reds want to deal Milton. I could even see Alfonzo straight up for Milton as just a bad salary swap that the Reds get to cut loose on a bad contract a year early. But they will not just throw in Dunn. He has a lot of value and they can get quality players in return for him.
by count sutton on
Sep 23, 2005 10:59 AM EDT
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Milton
by irwin on
Sep 23, 2005 1:09 PM EDT
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that's my point
by count sutton on
Sep 23, 2005 1:34 PM EDT
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Thome...
Thome might not be a bad option for SF and Philadelphia would probably be willing to trade him, but the real question is, will Thome be willing to go to SF? He has a full, no-trade clause. If he doesn't want to go, he's not going anywhere. That's why Philadelphia is stuck - Howard would be the easier one to trade, but he's the future, Thome is not.
Also, Thome does have back problems, so you would be risking him not being in the lineup for long periods of time.
Plus, Thome has a tendency to swing for the fences, which results in a lot of strikeouts and missed opportunities with men on base. Being that he's playing with Bonds and McCovey Cove is in right field, I can see Thome trying to pull every ball he can to see how many he can "splash-down" - this will likely result in a ton of strikeouts and many runners left on base.
In fact, I could see Thome challenging 200 Ks a season - I believe he has gone over 170 or even 180 before in his career once or twice if I remember correctly.
In short, I'm not sure if he will provide as much of a boost to the SF offense as you think he will. He'll probably put fans into the seats, but I really don't know how much the Giants themselves will improve.
Plus, between Bonds and Thome, I think many pitchers will still walk Bonds to get to Thome because Thome is not the pure hitter Bonds is.
Just look at the pitch Bonds hit for a homerun off John Patterson on Wednesday night - could you see Thome hitting that pitch? I can't - he'd probably strike out on it (and it wouldn't surprise me if he chased it, especially if Thome was in a drought - he chased some bad pitches in Cleveland when he was in some of his long droughts.)
So, overall, Thome might bring fans to the ballpark and help boost ticket revenue, but I really don't know how much offensive help he will really bring you, between his health and his high number of Ks and leaving runners on base. Plus, he has to agree to come to SF first - not exactly a given.
I'm certainly glad Shapiro DID NOT resign him - or the Indians would have been tied down with his contract and would likely not be making the playoff push they are making right now (as they would never have been able to sign Millwood, who has been big for us despite his deceiving record - he receives the lowest amount of run support in the AL; plus, it might have been troublesome to get both Hafner and Thome at-bats if both of them couldn't play 1B.)
Also keep in mind that Philadelphia's current push for the Wild Card really started after Thome went out for the year and Ryan Howard was inserted into the lineup.
Just some points to consider on Thome.
Take care and have a good day.
by indiansfan on
Sep 23, 2005 2:36 AM EDT
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Thome
- Thome's elbow and back are healthy
- the Phillies are willing to pay a chunk of his salary
- Thome is willing to play elsewhere
by finman on
Sep 23, 2005 10:17 AM EDT
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Thome
by Nick Schulte on
Sep 23, 2005 11:44 AM EDT
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MY 2 Cents
The one thing they absolutely can't do is sign more 40 yo players to 3 year contracts. Anyone new that they bring in has to fit into long term plans or be for only 1 year or 2 at the most.
By my calculations, assuming they pick up the options on Winn and Hawkins, they are committed to $76 M for next year.
Peter Magowan has signaled that he might be willing to raise payroll for one year to make a last run with Barry. That's doable since so many big contracts come off the books after next year. If they are serious about this, they are going to have to go up to around $100 M. Here's what I'd do:
- Re-sign Scott Eyre. He's already signaled that he will take a hometown discount. I don't see them getting anyone better for less and I don't see them competing without a lefty of his caliber in the pen. Probable cost: $2 M. Might be able to get away with $1.5 M for next year with a multiyear deal.
- Sign Brett Tomko to a multiyear deal as long as the price isn't too high. $3-4 M/yr would be reasonable.
- Pick up Schmidt's option. I would have liked to see him traded at the deadline, but now they have to pay him $3 M to leave. You're not going to get a better pitcher than him for $7.5 M. I wouldn't sign him to a long term contract.
- Sign a FA starter. My choice is Burnett. He's a bit of a risk, but the upside is huge. He's the one guy out there who could absolutely change the balance of power in the NL West. It would obviously take a long term deal, but he could then assume the #1 role after Schmidt leaves for FA after next year. Other guys who I wouldn't be unhappy getting if Burnett doesn't work out include Jeff Weaver, Jarrod Washburn, Kevin Millwood, Matt Morris.
- Acquire a lefthanded hitting first baseman with some pop. I'd prefer Delgado to Thome, but neither one is probably realistic. Other possibilities include Lyle Overbay, Ryan Klesko, or Cliff Floyd. Overbay would be my choice if Delgado isn't doable.
Kevin Frandsen takes over at second base when Durham's contract is up.
They are in much better shape with position prospects than a couple of years ago, but probably no superstars in the making. It will be interesting to sort out which ones are keepers. They will have to get their next superstar from outside the organization.
Pitching is very depleted. Cain is a stud but there are no other sure fire major leaguers in the organization. Joaquin and Martis look promising, but that's at least 3 years off.
The 2006 Draft needs to be Best player available, pitcher, pitcher, pitcher, pitcher and then more pitchers.
by DrBGiantsfan on
Sep 23, 2005 8:48 AM EDT
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Yeah but...
- Magowan said in recent San Jose Mercury that he was reiterating that the Giants will have a 2006 budget similar to 2005's, which was $85M.
- Tomko said last offseason that he knows he's underpaid for 2005 and then referred to a couple of pitchers similar to him who got $7M/year contracts, like Kent Benson. So he might pull an Aurilia and insist on a higher amount and Sabean will have moved on by the time he realizes that no one is paying him that.
- I would resign Schmidt if we can get a good hometown discount plus restructure his 2006 salary to move some of it out to future years, like we did with Rueter's last contract.
- I agree that the Giants probably will have to get their next superstar from outside the system but I still think there is still an outside chance for a few of our prospects in the farm system, if they continue to develop: Fred Lewis, EME, Nate Schierholtz, Travis Ishikawa, Marcus Sanders. Again, very low odds, but I think there's at least a chance for one of them, they've all shown a good potential in one area or another.
by biasedgiantsfanatic on
Sep 23, 2005 4:49 PM EDT
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Probably true...
If we are truly stuck with an $85 M payroll, I don't see any way of making any significant upgrades unless we can find a way to dump Alfonzo.
I agree that Tomko may well have in inflated opinion of his value, then again, with some of the contracts given out last year, he might not. It just seems to me that he would be better off settling down with one team for awhile, but I know that's an old fashioned way of thinking.
If we can get 2-3 solid starters out of our current position players and 2-3 reserves, I'll be happy and our farm system will have served us well. Probably a longshot for any of them to be All-Stars let alone superstars. I was excited about Pablo Sandoval until I saw his picture in BA this AM. My God, that kid is fat! I'm excited about Martis and Joaquin, but they have a long ways to go. Watch for a breakout year from Kelyn Acosta next year.
- Ortmeier and Lewis in rounds 2,3.
- Schierholtz and Jennings in rounds 2,3.
- No first rounder. Eddy, Timpner and Bowker drafted high. I think Will Thompson and Frandsen too.
- Copeland first player picked.
by DrBGiantsfan on
Sep 23, 2005 9:39 PM EDT
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Just a Thought
I just don't think the Giants can get someone like Manny, Dunn, or Thome in deals where the best guy they are giving up is Alfonzo.
by count sutton on
Sep 23, 2005 10:55 AM EDT
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I doubt they can even unload his contract
by Nick Schulte on
Sep 23, 2005 11:39 AM EDT
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RE
I think the Phillies will practically give him away, if they can.
But, yeah, the back injury is a great reason to stay away from Thome.
I am still hoping for Wilkerson.
by irwin on
Sep 23, 2005 1:11 PM EDT
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Wilkerson
by Nick Schulte on
Sep 23, 2005 1:25 PM EDT
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But Wilkerson has more power than Snow ever did, and can play the outfield well. I think his versatility would be a huge plus on a team with 3-4 players who should be limited to 120 games.
In fact, I think versatility should be a hallmark of the Giants 06 roster.
by irwin on
Sep 23, 2005 1:41 PM EDT
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lol...
by kenshin1 on
Sep 23, 2005 5:01 PM EDT
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
Wilkerson's versatility also would be helpful on this old team. Between him and Feliz they can cover most of the positions on the field.
by Nick Schulte on
Sep 23, 2005 5:44 PM EDT
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in my opinion
by Opheliakesal on
Dec 20, 2006 12:36 AM EST
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