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Around SBN: 2011 In Extreme Home Runs

Why isn't King Felix walking anyone?

When a pitcher moves up the minor league ranks, you can expect some typical behavior.  A flamethrower who mows them down in the A- and AA- level, still gets his strikeouts in AAA and in the majors, but usually at a lower rate.  A pitcher's control over his walks can come back to bite a highly thought of pitcher when he reaches the major leagues.  Ideally you get a pitcher who gets strikes and doesn't issue many walks.  That way when they get to the bigs, he might only strike out 6 or 7 per 9IP, but by not walking many he sets himself up for success.

That's typical.  And then there's Felix...

Star-divide

OK, let's take a look at Felix's K rate:

2003 (A), 69 IP: 11.9 K/9
2004 (A/AA), 149 IP: 10.4
2005 (AAA), 88 IP: 10.2
2005 (MLB), 29 IP: 9.3

That looks just about right.  He dropped a bit at every level, but continues to be just great.  You want to see a pitcher get at least 6 or 7 K/9, and he's doing far more than that.

But now look at his walk rate:

  1. 3.5 BB/9
  2. 2.8 BB/9
  3. 4.9 BB/9
MLB:  1.2 BB/9

Huh?  What gives?  He went from 3.5 down to 2.8 last year, and that's nice progress.  Then he went to AAA this year and balooned up to 4.9, and that's the thing we all wondered about.  Would he handle major league pitching, or would the walks cause him problems?  But through 29 innings so far, including a second game against the Twins when they were trying to be patient and taking pitches, he has issued only 1.2 BB/9.  Basically he's showing phenomenal control.

Why?  Is this just a lucky start to his career, and his walk rate will soon rise?  Or has he suddenly locked in, or figured something out?  Why isn't King Felix walking anyone?

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lol...
Maybe Felix was getting bored at Tacoma and needed a challenge so he just loaded up the bases for AAA hitters, still their attempts were futile... the King is amazing.
Julian de Lavalle

by jdelavalle on Aug 21, 2005 10:07 PM EDT reply actions  

i have an explanation
@detroit
minnesota
kansas city
@minnesota

kansas city and detroit are 29th and 30th in the majors in walks, and minnesota's entire offense has been AWOL for about two months.

by jpahk on Aug 21, 2005 10:19 PM EDT reply actions  

you
said the same thing I did, just about 1 minute earlier....I agree.

by DavidRoxFan17 on Aug 21, 2005 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Worse than AAA?
So your explanation assumes that Detroit, Minnesota, and Kansas City field worse hitters than the AAA teams Felix faced earlier this year, and the AA teams he faced last year.

No, there is something else afoot.  Is he concentrating more?  Major league hitters, even the worst of them, are better than this if Felix hadn't made some sort of adjustment.

by FunWithHeadlines on Aug 21, 2005 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually
yeah, you could argue that those teams are at least less patient than the average AAA team.  Worse hitters maybe not (although KC is a strong possibility) but less patient?  Very possible.

by CrimsonLiederhosen on Aug 22, 2005 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

For What It's Worth
Detroit ranks 6th in OPS in the AL.  

by Con on Aug 23, 2005 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

maybe
its because in the major leagues, right now, teams are chasing some pitches they wouldnt normally. They have never seen the kid.

Wait until the league adjusts to him, scouting reports get out, etc. It will be different.

BTW--look at the teams he has faced. They arent exactly the Red Sox on offense.....

David

by DavidRoxFan17 on Aug 21, 2005 10:20 PM EDT reply actions  

but
With that philosophy he shouldn't of been walking guys to start the year in AAA. But in fact he did walks guys at the start of the year and through out his AAA starts.

by hybrid on Aug 22, 2005 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, but
as bad as Minnesota hitting has been recently, this was the second time they faced him and they approached the game with the idea of not being aggressive, but being patient.  Still didn't work.

by FunWithHeadlines on Aug 21, 2005 11:17 PM EDT reply actions  

Another possibility
His stuff is so good that AAA hitter take/miss pitches that major leaguers hit, but hit poorly.

by irwin @ Minor League Ball on Aug 21, 2005 11:26 PM EDT reply actions  

Possible explanation
This doesn't really do that much to explain anything, but maybe it's made a slight difference. From what I've heard, minor league hitters generally never swang at his curveballs, especially this year, since they didn't feel they had much chance.  Now a combination of two things is probably happening: major league hitters have more confidence and are swinging at his curve, and Felix has learned that he needs to throw his breaking ball for strikes, thanks to minor leaguers testing him with their patience.  

I mean, he has risen through the minors very fast and it wouldn't be surprising if his high walk rate this year in AAA was due to him having to adjust how many pitches he threw in the strike zone.  In the lower minors, I'm sure he could throw high fastballs, and low off speed stuff and get a lot of swings and misses, which doesn't happen higher up.  Judging from his time with the M's so far, though, I don't see him approaching 4.9 walks a game again; his control is too good.

I know he's faced poor hitting teams, and will likely get flustered against great offenses and throw more balls, but watching the games you see he's been dead on with most of his pitches.  It's not like he's getting by on luck, or hitter's chasing bad pitches.  In fact, in the last game, the strike zone was rather small and he still only walked one.  So, basically, I think it's a combination of him learning how to pitch more effectively to better hitters and the quality of lineups faced, in general, not being very good.

by yeoldejaco on Aug 22, 2005 12:43 AM EDT reply actions  

2 Possibilities...
Hello everyone,

1. Like jdelaville mentioned, maybe Felix did get bored at AAA; I know Indians Pitching Prospect Fausto Carmona was giving up more than a hit/IP at AA Akron; at AAA Buffalo, it's well under a hit/IP (it's something like 48 hits in 68 IP or something like this, versus something like 112 hits in 100 IP at AA Akron.)  How do you explain that?

John Mirabelli, Director of Player Development, mentioned in an interview that Fausto Carmona usually rises to the challenge of a new level; Felix may have had a similar rise in performance in his BB/IP with the advancement in level from AAA to the Majors.  

2. I'm not familiar with all the PCL teams that Felix faced, but I know that Sacramento, Oakland's AAA affiliate is in that league.  From what I've heard and know about Oakland's development, they teach patience and the value of taking a walk.  That may have helped to boost Felix's walk rate at AAA.

There may be other teams in the PCL that also try to teach patience and the value of a walk - it just might not translate as well to the Major League Level as it has with Oakland.

So far in the Majors, Felix has faced two of the most aggressive teams in the Majors; he may have more difficulty in keeping his walk rate down when he faces more patient teams like Oakland and Boston.

We'll see (if not this year, certainly next year, although I would think Seattle will face Oakland again before the season ends, so we should get a better idea when Felix faces Oakland.)

by indiansfan on Aug 22, 2005 1:08 AM EDT reply actions  

wonder
People have questioned the seven wonders of the world. Nobody has the answer. King Felix is the 8th wonder. Don't try so hard to figure him out....just enjoy watching him reign.
Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom. - General George Patton Jr

by Goodfella on Aug 22, 2005 1:58 AM EDT reply actions  

Sample size
We are looking at a very small sample size against some of the worst hitting teams in the AL.  Not to say he hasn't been dominant, but any major league pitcher can go on a 4 game run like this.  

He will walk people, and he will have some rough outings.  This is a great start, though.

by TCapone30 on Aug 22, 2005 11:22 AM EDT reply actions  

The Answer is Simple....
The reason why Felix has done better against major league hitters than his AAA numbers suggest is because he has improved.  I think that it is really that simple.  

Felix has flown through the minors.  His learning curve has been very very steep, and he has improved a great deal every year.  It is important to remember that he is still only 19.  

I think that Felix is a lot better pitcher than he was earlier this year (when he was in AAA).  

He is using his change a lot more effectively, he is starting to use his slider a bit, and he is pitching to contact more.  He has become an extreme ground ball pitcher.  Now, the majority of Felix's outcomes are Ks or groundballs.

He isn't walking as many guys because he is not getting deep into counts as much.  This is really evident in his pitch counts.  Even in the last start agains Minn, he got though 8 innings only throwing 115.  The start before that, he also got through 8 innings with a pretty low number of pitches.  

What you are seeing is an extremely talented kid who is improving.  His control has improved over the course of this year, and he just isn't walking many people.   Plus, he is getting a lot of ground ball outs, which help him get outs without going deep into counts.  

You guys who are downplaying his talent level are really mistaken.  Felix is one of the best starters in baseball right now, at age 19.  He is going to have a really great career.  

by Jerry @ Minor League Ball on Aug 22, 2005 1:28 PM EDT reply actions  

Any major league pitcher can go on a run like this
Actually, I don't think that is true.  I've been intrigued by the notion of signature games and short stretches since Roger Clemens announed his arrival with a 20k 0 walk game.  Could anyone really do that or did Roger Clemens manage to make a statement that he was a special pitcher in just one start.  Or to restate the question of the day, what does Felix's first four starts say about him.  The answer seems to be quite a bit.  Generally, when we say a pitcher had a dominant start, we mean that he had in some combination, pitched a reasonable length of game, didn't allow that many hits, walked few, struck out many, and kept the ball in the park.  Baseball Hq developed a stat known as pure quality starts that looks at those five factors assigns one point to each, and calls meeting at least 4 of the criteia a dominant start.  By that measure Felix rated a "4" out of five on his first start because he went less than 6 innings, and a five out of five on all his other starts.  There are, as it turns out, 23 other AL pitchers that had four dominant starts in a row by this measure.  All of the most impressive four or more game streaks and a representative sample of the rest are listed below, a list of the others meeting the criteria is immediately below:

              ip   h   w   k  hr
Bedard      30   19  5   30  0
Blanton     28.7 20  7   20  1
Bonderman   39   31  10  30  4
Byrd        31   16   3  18  3  
Contreras   28   18   9  23  2
Halladay    63   46   5  55  2  (8 games)
Haren       44.7 30   5  31  2  (6 games)
Hernandez   31   16   4  30  0
Kazmir      26   21   14 30  1
R Johnson   51.3 41   11 50  7
Maroth      25.7 19   9  20  4    
J Santanna  56   45   6  67  5   (8 games)
Silva       29   28   1  13  3
Young       32.3 22   4  32  3
Wells       40   43   1  27  2  (6 games)    
Zito        28   14   10 23  2  

also: Buehrle, Chen, Colon (twice), Kazmir (again), Lackey, Radke, Robertson, Santanna (again), Towers, Zito (again).  

I think it goes without saying that even in this elite company, Hernandez's four games hold up very well among the most impressive streaks on this list.  In fact the only streak that really looks uncannily similar (very high k's, very low hits and walks, no hrs allowed) is that of Eric Bedard earlier this season, and still with a nifty 3.12 season era.

Now, remembering that the above stats don't necessarily say anything about earned runs allowed during the streak let alone for the season, following is a complete list of the season eras for the pitchers on the list of having 4 or more dominant starts in a row:

1.24, 2.41, 3.07, 3.l2, 3.35, 3.37, 3.46, 3.60 3.66, 3.75, 3.78, 3.88, 3.92, 3.94, 3.95, 4.00, 4.00, 4.02, 4.08, 4.12, 4.34, 4.62, 4.64, 4.70.

Median is 3.88, mean is 3.52.  

The outliers on the high side are also revealing.  Randy Johnson at 4.34, Chris Young at 4.62, Mike Maroth at 4.64 and David Wells at 4.70.  Johnson and Wells are pitchers with enormous base skills who have had very difficult years.  Chris Young has had a Jekyll and Hyde season where he pitched very well for a while and then fell off a cliff.  Recently he has shown some signs of a comeback.  We'll see.  As for Maroth, he probably is the worst pitcher on the list and is a case of just barely fitting into the criteria, 4 hrs allowed in 25 2/3 innings and a barely 2/1 k/bb rate even during the streak.  Not really comparable to Felix's run.

Also interesting is a list of pitchers who have pitched at least as much as Felix with at least a 6.00 k/9 (Felix is over 9), at least a 2.00 k/bb (Felix is at 7.50), and at least a 2.00 g/f ratio (Felix is at 3.57)

Hernandez, M. Miller, Halladay, Shields.  Miller is the only name that might be less familiar, but he's certainly no slouch, having put up very nice numbers last year and this until going on the dl. The others are two of the best pitchers in the game, and Felix.

The conclusion is that even if we knew nothing about Felix other than these four starts, we would already be able to conclude, with reasonable certainty that he is one of the better pitchers in the AL.  I guess we knew that already.

by BERSMR on Aug 22, 2005 2:45 PM EDT reply actions  

Three Words
Small. Sample. Size.

by Klostrophobic on Aug 22, 2005 7:46 PM EDT reply actions  

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