Texas Trio--D-V-D

by So Cal Bob on Jul 19, 2005 5:17 PM EDT Comment 23 comments

BA's Daily Dish did a feature about the Three Amigos, Texas Trio, or D-V-D--whatever you like. The two scouts weren't very glowing in their praise of these 3. Here it is:

The Rangers can see their future rotation just down the road in suburban Frisco, home of their Double-A affiliate. Righthanders Thomas Diamond and Edison Volquez and lefthander John Danks all started the year in the high Class A California League before making the big jump to Double-A.

With the trade deadline approaching, clubs were sending scouts in to see the Frisco team and assess which of the D-V-D trio. We talked to two, and they couldn't agree on the top player. None of the three is lighting up the Texas League--Danks (2-5, 4.91) and Diamond (1-2, 6.00) just lost their last starts, while Volquez (1-3, 4.06) has been inconsistent. One of the scouts picked Volquez while the other picked Danks, a 2003 first-round pick, ahead of 2004 first-rounder Thomas Diamond. The scout who picked Danks broke down all three.

"There's no question Volquez has the best fastball velocity and the best life on his fastball. I saw him 93-95 mph with movement, and he has a good changeup. Diamond doesn't quite have the deception in his delivery in the start where I saw him. He just wasn't as good as Volquez. He is a young guy who knows how to pitch, though. I could see him as a No. 3 or 4 starter who eats innings, but there's not enough there to say he's a frontline starter. He's got some feel. I had his fastball up to 94 mph, but it was straight. His breaking balls were OK, and with his arm slot, he really should stick with the slider and make the curve his fourth pitch. I saw some sliders at 84-86 mph, it could be pretty good. It should be his pitch of choice.

"The guy I was most intrigued with was Danks. He's drop-and-drive in his delivery right now, so he left his fastball up and wasn't able to pitch downhill. He showed arm strength, he was up to 93 mph, and the most interesting thing was he has a 70 changeup (on the 20-80 scouting scale) right now. He didn't have that pitch in high school as far as I understand, and now it's his best pitch. His curveball was erratic but I saw some that were pretty good. Now you're talking about a lefthander with arm strength, with a plus-plus pitch, a potential plus pitch in his curve and a potential plus fastball. So that's why I'm intrigued."

Thoughts?

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Scouts Take

All things considered, the scout had very positive things to say about the Texas trio. In his opinion, Diamond is the least talented of the three and still rates as a #3 or #4 innings eater type of starter. That would mean they have three major league caliber starters on their AA team. Of those none rates lower than a 3 or 4 in that guys opinion. If you look at it that way, I'd say it's fairly glowing.

If you were hoping a scout would say "That's three aces!" That would be hyperbole and not an honest or realistic account. Too often people are "offended" when a scout says a pitcher looks like a middle of the rotation type.

by PolkCountyRay on Jul 19, 2005 6:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

good take

I didn't look at it that way. It's just been such glowing reports when any of these guys pitched, I expected a lot more praise.

by So Cal Bob on Jul 19, 2005 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

and...

We Rays fans would love to have a "middle of the rotation" type guys :(

At least Nomo is No-more....I couldn't bear watching the games he threw

by UCFKnights on Jul 19, 2005 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i like all three

but i dont think any of the three will become true aces. I like volquez the best, then danks and diamond.

Are the rangers willing to move of them for help this trade deadline? they have a very godo chance of getting into the post season.

by npurcell on Jul 19, 2005 6:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Not that bad...

The report on Dnaks is very encouraging actually, the guy rates his changeup a 70, thats right up there with Keith Foulke and Pedro. A lefthander with three plus-pitche sis a heck of a prospect...

Volquez might be the rawest one of the three, but could have the highest ceiling. I hate to say it but that 95 MPH fastball and a hard slider project better for the bullpen, or he might just become another Tommy John case for Dr. Andrews...

I'm amazed at their dislike towards Diamond. Clearly they saw him on a bad night so that might have something to do with it. Ive read reports saying that Orel Hershisher loves this guy and wants to bring him up to work with him. Orel knows his stuff, so I wouldnt worry too much about these reports.

Just remember TINSTAAP and while these three guys might become Maddux-Glavine-Smoltz or Hudson-Zito-Mulder, they can also become Isringhausen-Wilson-Pulpisher.

Julian de Lavalle

by jdelavalle on Jul 19, 2005 8:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Danks & Diamond

Interesting thing is that Danks didn't have a change at the beginning of 2004. I think that the 70 is much too high, but I've seen him get by with it when he didn't have anything on his bender (I think that the scout in question probably saw that game too).

I can't figure Diamond out. I can't tell how he does it. His fastball--reported to be of the 95-96 variety in college--is mostly 91-93, pretty flat, and he tends to leave it up in the zone. His breaking balls are inconsistent. I agree with the scout that his slider looks better, but he almost never throws it when I see him. His curve is really erratic. His best pitch is his change and, of the three kids, his is the worst in my opinion.

The one thing about Diamond that stands out is his attitude. He thinks he's the boss out there and looks like it. It's as if he simply scares hitters into caving in on him. I know that sounds silly, but his stuff is clearly inferior that of Danks and (especially) Volquez.

To me, the best all-around prospect of the three is Danks (right now; this, of course, could change at any minute). Danks doesn't have Volquez's pure stuff, but his mental toughness is impressive--almost on par with Diamond in a way. I like his approach too. Plus, he just turned 20 and he's lefty.

"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice... uh... uh... you aren't going to fool me again."

by mjh on Jul 20, 2005 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Volquez's assortment

Oh. It's not accurate to think of Volquez as a 2 pitch guy. His change is inconsistent, but when he's got it going, it's his best pitch. In fact, if he gains consistency of that pitch, he's the clear choice of the three.

"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice... uh... uh... you aren't going to fool me again."

by mjh on Jul 20, 2005 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Middle of the Rotation isn't bad...

Hello everyone,

It's not easy to develop an ace - look at the Indians' farm system - they have several developing pitchers in their farm system and the only one who most talk about being an ace is Adam Miller (provided he stays healthy.) There may be one or two other frontline starters developing (possibly Rafael Perez, a hard throwing left-hander; possibly Jason Davis, if he could ever get consistent command - he has ace-type stuff; possibly Dan Denham because of his bulldog mentality, but there aren't many.)

If you look at any other farm system that has many pitching prospects, there aren't many that could claim to have more than one to two bonafide ace projected prospects, whether you're talking about Cleveland, Minnesota, even Atlanta and the Los Angeles Dodgers.

It's not easy to develop an ace - the Indians have been waiting for Sabathia to take the ace role, and hasn't after 4.5 seasons, despite #1 quality stuff.

So, I wouldn't frown about the scouts' report - he's just being honest. If you are lucky, one of the 3 might be a true #1, with the other 2 being somewhere from #2-#4 type pitchers (probably more #3-#4.)

That's still pretty good if all three develop. Plus, no offense to Texas Rangers fans, Texas can use any type of improved starting pitching, even if it's not ace pitching. Pitching has arguably been Texas' biggest weakness and will be the main factor on whether this team makes the playoffs in 2005 and beyond.

by indiansfan on Jul 20, 2005 2:21 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Any thoughts on Hudgins

I had followed him some last year - is he still on the radar at all?

by slickwdb on Jul 20, 2005 6:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Hudge

After a pretty nice start to the season, Hudgins is going through a horrible stretch right now. Even before that, however, I had a very very strong impression that the club is not enamored with him. He was a Fuson pick and the new development regime (led by Dom Chiti) isn't into "pitchability" guys. Hudgins' 90 mph fastball isn't what they're looking for.

"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice... uh... uh... you aren't going to fool me again."

by mjh on Jul 20, 2005 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hudge...

I agree on that take on "Hudgie," as I like to call him.

As a matter of fact, when I was talking to Viva la Volquez over high tea, he agreed with Hindman and I on this subject.

Of course, when I went to go see "Batman Begins" with Da-Da-Danks (you have to sing it, like that song "Da Da Da"), he told me that I have such an enormous brain that it's hard to believe that I also have such a humongous penis.

by hindmanfan on Jul 20, 2005 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I am...

beyond sick of the Edison Volquez talks. Pedro Martinez comparisons aside, I still don't see him turning into anything more than a decent bullpen arm. I don't understand the hype. He doesn't have great rates or any numbers that would predict some stud prospect. He throws hard. That's nice I guess. I can't wait for this kid to not make it.

by templeUsox on Jul 20, 2005 11:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Volquez

Volquez actually does quite a bit more than merely "throw hard." But yeah, he's dramatically overhyped right now. It's mostly a function of the fact that this system hasn't ever had a pitching prospect with this much pure ability before. And yes, the Pedro comparisons are both hyperbolic and unfair to both the kid and to Pedro. But, if you saw this kid on a regular basis, you'd probably conclude--like pretty much every one else who does--that he might have ace potential. He's still very raw and whether or not he polishes up over the next year or two is, of course, a longshot.

"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice... uh... uh... you aren't going to fool me again."

by mjh on Jul 20, 2005 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Volquez

"I can't wait for this kid to not make it". ?? What is wrong with you? It's not like he's the poster boy for prospects or anything. He's a young kid who has had a great run this year and who happens to have similar qualities to that of Pedro. ANd that bothers you because....? We make the hype, they don't. And if the Edison happens to be nothing more than a "bullpen arm", then so be it. At least he made it.

by jparks77 on Jul 20, 2005 11:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I guess...

I just have an irrational dislike for the Rangers.

by templeUsox on Jul 20, 2005 12:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: I guess....

Well put.

by jparks77 on Jul 20, 2005 12:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I still feel

that Juan Dominguez is their best pitcher in the minors. I can't figure out why this guy doesn't have a clearly defined role and throwing in Texas. Any thoughts?

by So Cal Bob on Jul 20, 2005 12:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

JuanDom

He's an idiot. He can't be counted on. He fails to show up for games; late for practice; vanishes. Does stupid stupid things. And this is coming from a guy who has been his biggest advocate for three years now.

"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice... uh... uh... you aren't going to fool me again."

by mjh on Jul 20, 2005 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

still or past?

I heard he had a mental collapse when his mother died last year and that has led to some lingering problems. Haven't they been resolved?

by So Cal Bob on Jul 20, 2005 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mike

I don't mean to be a total jerk here, but I'm confused as to how you can say that you've been Dominguez' biggest fan for THREE years now. Early in the 2003 season, when he was coming off of a very good season in Savannah, and was pitching very well in Stockton, on Newberg's board we all named who we thought the best pitching prospect in the organization was. A few of us said Dominguez, but you held to Ben Keiter. You and I had a fairly lengthy argument about it.

I would trace your status as his biggest advocate more recently - to this January, when you ranked him the #1 pitching prospect in the organization above all of the DVD trio, as well as Chris Young and Kameron Loe. By the way, you ranked Volquez #10. BA had Dominguez at #7, or the 5th best pitching prospect.

by Brett Perryman on Jul 20, 2005 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good for you

When I saw him make his debut in Frisco that year, I ballyhooed him to death. I've also ranked him as the top pitching prospect in the system for two straight years (including this year, ahead of Diamond and Danks).

"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice... uh... uh... you aren't going to fool me again."

by mjh on Jul 21, 2005 8:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thoughts

In my mind, there has been no doubt that Danks is the best prospect of the three. I think the Rangers are doing an outstanding job of managing his development, giving him a shot at higher levels early but at the same time not rushing him. The news on his change-up is particularly promising, showing that he's developing a nice degree of polish already at his age.

When we're comparing him to a guy who seems destined to be a No. 3 righty starter and Volquez (who seems like too much of a 'BA guy' for me to really like that much at this point), doesn't seem like much of a debate to me. I'd put Diamond over Volquez for now, since I suspect Volquez might be better off as a pen guy ala Merkin Valdez.

by mrkupe on Jul 20, 2005 1:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Volquez

Clearly Volquez is a stuff guy at this point. However, I think the hype is justified. His mechanics do remind me of Pedro. He's got a mid 90's fastball and he's got an offspeed pitch he throws about as tight as Pedro's.

IMO Volquez is currently somewhere between Thrower and Pitcher status. He's still pretty young and he's got a lot of natural ability. He can be a 3 pitch guy near the top of a good rotation.

Bullpen predictions for Volquez seem premature and dire. He just needs to continue to learn how to pitch. I think he can harness his stuff and improve his control. It may take 2 more years but I think he's got a better chance than most.

by RMF on Jul 20, 2005 10:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs