Greinke/Radke

by sdangler on May 9, 2005 5:59 PM EDT

There seems to be a lot of debate around Zack Greinke in the baseball community regarding how good a pitcher he will be. Some say his stats don't indicate dominance, others believe he will have a Cy Young trophy-only room in his house. Just an interesting note: check out the numbers of his career so far and compare them to Brad Radke's first 3 seasons (although Radke debuted at 22 vs. Greinke's 20):

Greinke: 177 IP, 3.86 ERA, 6.05 K/9, 3.72 K/BB, 1.4 HR/9, 0.86 G/F, ERA+ (last year only) = 112

Radke: 653 IP, 4.47 ERA, 5.47 K/9, 2.6 K/BB, 1.37 HR/9, 0.88 G/F, ERA+ = 109

If Greinke turns out to be a similar pitcher to Radke (most likely better IMO b/c his numbers are a bit better; plus he started younger), the Royals got a heck of a pitcher on their hands. Radke also improved quite a bit and is still getting better (only 1 walk this year!). Now, if they can only get some good players around him...

P.S. - I like to use parenthesis (I don't know why)...

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greinke

i keep hearing contradictory things about greinke's velocity. does anyone know what it truly is? i have yet to see him pitch so can't go by what i see from the radar gun. thanks in advance.

by DavidWrightismyGod on May 9, 2005 7:13 PM EDT reply actions

Velocity

I've seen Greinke pitch a few times here in KC and the reason there are discrepancies in his velocity is because he changes speed so well. I've seen him throw 95 MPH gas and then his next pitch is a 55 MPH curve. He'll then follow that up with an 85 MPH fastball with a lot of movement.

The guy is all over the place with controlling the strike zone and the speed of his pitches. He needs to mature (mentally) but he is a hell of a pitcher.

by count sutton on May 9, 2005 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions

Same here

Rob Neyer from ESPN loves this kid. John called him I believe the quote was "Greg Madux reincarnite" thats a complement. But I've never seen him pitch. Really, how often is KC on national TV.

by Tyler on May 9, 2005 7:47 PM EDT reply actions

this is what I got so far

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/story/2005/5/10/165148/451

I posted this on Baseball Rants earlier in the year but was reposting it today for new readers...I compare Greinke to Saberhagen more than anyone from what I have seen so far

by Marc Normandin @ Minor League Ball on May 10, 2005 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions

Greinke/Saberhagen

Marc, your Greinke/Saberhagen is probably closer to exact than Greinke/Radke. I shouldn't have honed by ideas down to just current players. Good work on this article.

by sdangler on May 11, 2005 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions

Greinke

For what it's worth, I love Greinke as well. The word on his velocity is that he is capable of throwing in the mid-90s, but usually takes a little bit off it (averaging in the low 90s) for better control. Combine that with his cartoon-like curve ball and he is really fun to watch!

by ConorGlassey on May 10, 2005 1:08 AM EDT reply actions

Appropriate effort

He gasses it up when he needs to, but he's not one of those guys who tries to strike everyone out, he really seems to prefer to be economical and efficient.

by CrimsonLiederhosen on May 10, 2005 9:56 AM EDT reply actions

Efficient

Greinke's stats would seem to disagree with your efficiency opinion. He currently ranks near the middle of the pack in pitches per inning (56th in fact). At the top of the list are guys that you would think of when you think economical: Lieber, Silva, Franklin, Mulder, Hampton, Garland, ground ball type guys. Some of the guys around Greinke are Smoltz, Beckett, Wolf, Washburn, Webb, Hudson, Patterson: Sort of a mixed bag there, but I don't know if I'd throw out the adjective "economical" with this list. These guys all have pretty high K/IP. However, Greinke has the highest K/BB ratio of all of the pitchers around him, which shows me that his control right now is very good.

by sdangler on May 10, 2005 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions

Control

So Goodfella is right on the money.

by sdangler on May 10, 2005 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions

Economy of effort

Greinke's pitch economy is not fantastic (bear in mind that he is still just 21 though so i think that may come along), but his economy of effort is more along the lines of what I was thinking about. Similar to Livan Hernandez (although it pains me to compare him to Livan) in that he doesn't pitch at max effort all the time, but he can break it out when he has to.

Greinke also has the worst run support in baseball, .56 runs per game. Second worst is Jake westbrook at 1.43. It's going to be a LONG year in KC if that doesn't change significantly.

by CrimsonLiederhosen on May 10, 2005 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions

Think Command

When you think about Greinke...think Command.
He has THE BEST command of his pitches. Period.

How he can consistently hit the strike zone with his varying speeds is a marvel.

Batters can't time this guy!

Cy Young and Zack Greinke will be mentioned in the same breathe over the next 15 years.....As long as he stays healthy.

by Goodfella on May 10, 2005 10:03 AM EDT reply actions

greinke

Zack Greinke can hit 95 MPH at will. And he can throw strikes at that velocity, quality strikes. But he prefers to change speeds and make hitters look stupid, rather than just overpowering them. He really is a pitcher, not a thrower.

This can be frustrating...at times, he will lay in a 88 MPH fastball to get ahead of the hitter, and if it is where the hitter is expecting it, BOOM home run. But that is something he will overcome with experience. The good news about that is this: unlike most young pitchers, he doesn't use maximum effort on every pitch. That, combined with his strong athleticism and excellent mechanics, should help him stay healthy.

by John Sickels on May 10, 2005 3:37 PM EDT reply actions

Nice work

I like your Greinke/Radke comparison. I listened on the radio to Greinke pitch his first career complete game tonight. Economy was key: He made a mistake to Hillenbrand, but his pitch count was under 100. Simultaneously, Radke was pitching against the Orioles on TV. The comparison in their styles struck me, from their terrific control to to their namees ending in "ke."

As usual, the Royals scored one run for Zack. Berroa doubled to lead off the ninth, but was doubled off on a popout to center. Oy!

by Mr Met @ Minor League Ball on May 10, 2005 9:44 PM EDT reply actions

Please, someone get him out of KC!!!

"Despite pitching well again yesterday, Zack Greinke dropped to 0-4 on the year and hasn't won in 11 starts dating back to last season.
"Tell me how many times have we been shut out when I've pitched," Greinke said. "Just once. That means we always score something. But I always give up a couple of runs. That's what happened again. I make stupid pitches. Just once, I'd like to not do that. I'm just not pitching well enough to win." Sounds like Greinke has been listening to Joe Morgan. We're guessing he'd suddenly be "pitching well enough to win" given a normal offense behind him. "

by CrimsonLiederhosen on May 11, 2005 10:19 AM EDT reply actions