141 pitch CG for Mike Pelfrey today
I watched Pelfrey for about 5 innings today against SMS at Hammons field. His secondary stuff looked a little better than what I saw from him last year at the Valley Tourney but much of it was out of the zone and he followed it with fastball strikes. He was consistently at 93 (I sat behind the scouts) for the time I was there.
It was a cool day getting colder and a mist was getting heavier in the 5th. They had someone warming up in the pen and they were facing a weak lineup so I figured his day might be done. I was rather surprised to see that he finished the game, throwing a whopping 141 pitches. Is this a typical workload for Pelfrey?
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It won't be for long
by Marc Normandin @ Minor League Ball on Apr 30, 2005 10:06 AM EDT reply actions
Pitch counts are overrated
Should we limit the number of warm-up tosses? What about throws between starts?
It's about arm strength, people. Building up arm strength among young pitchers is crucial to avoid injuries.
by Spooneybarger on Apr 30, 2005 11:03 AM EDT reply actions
Spooneybarger=TJS
By the way, is the real Spooneybarger EVER going to come back from his Tommy John surgery?
by scarfo on Apr 30, 2005 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Warm-up tosses and long toss and the like
really...
From what Ive read in many places, primarily from Will Carroll in BP.com, pitch counts per start, has more to do with injuries than any other factor, including total innings pitch.
Get your facts straighten out buddy.
I agree with you, but...
by Brian38 @ Minor League Ball on May 1, 2005 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions
It's one study, but a good one
Read both parts, it's good stuff.
I'm sure other data is out there, but I don't have it on hand. But nearly everything I've read has indicated that there is definitely a positive correlation between high pitch counts, particularly over 120-125, and both short-term and long-term injuries as well as performance declines. Correlation doesn't prove causation, no, but it's awfully hard to 'prove' injury causation with numbers. Nevertheless, the data is there.
I agree that mechanics are the crux, but the reason pitch counts are important is that mechanics break down as a pitcher fatigues -- as he throws more pitches. Throwing a high number of pitches in one inning can be more damaging than a 'high' total for the game, throwing high numbers of pitches in many games(particularly without ample rest in between) is particularly worrisome, and pitching in high-pressure/high-leverage situations may also increase injury risk, though that one's a bit sketchier.
How about Mark Prior? He supposedly has more or less perfect mechanics(can't say myself, I'm no scout), but he's had problems with injuries since being ridden hard by Dusty in the 2003 playoff push. I can't prove that the overuse caused the injuries, no, but we can't prove that it didn't contribute to their occurrence either, and given what we're seeing about the correlation between riding a pitcher too hard and injuries, it seems likely that it had something to do with it.
Will Carroll says....
by Marc Normandin @ Minor League Ball on May 1, 2005 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Three names....
For todays pitchers only Livan Hernandez seems able to hit high pitch counts consistently, but thats because he claims to pitch at 70% most of the game, and reaches back to regular levels under times of stress in the game. His mechanics are never altered by fatigue, which is what causes the injury, because he does not allow himself to tire out.
by Marc Normandin @ Minor League Ball on May 1, 2005 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Pitch counts have alot to do with it
The strongest arms in the world get tired ya know...
by Marc Normandin @ Minor League Ball on Apr 30, 2005 10:46 PM EDT reply actions
By the way
by Marc Normandin @ Minor League Ball on Apr 30, 2005 10:54 PM EDT reply actions

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