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Christmas Present

For your Christmas Eve enjoyment, here is my current thinking about enigmatic Rangers prospect Edison Volquez.

What do you guys think? I keep going back and forth on this one between Grade B and Grade B+. The one time I saw him in person, he was terrible. But everyone else raves about him. Sabermetrically, his numbers in the Texas League are better than they look on the surface once context is considered, although as stated their not quite in the elite class. He is also a power/groundball pitcher, which should help his margin of error.

So, is it Grade B or B+? Take the poll in the comments! Note that my grading scale is very tough, and that Grade B+ is a very big compliment coming from me.

Poll
How Would You Grade Edison Volquez
Grade A-
7 votes
Grade B+
30 votes
Grade B
64 votes
Grade B-
24 votes
Grade C+
2 votes
Grade C
1 votes
Grade C-
1 votes
Grade A
8 votes

137 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 21 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Volquez
John, your description sounds like a grade B to me, but let's not quibble. I think too often people get hung up on a particular letter grade or a particular numerical ranking of a prospect, as if a single mark now could somehow describe the range of probabilites in a baseball career -- it can't. Maybe he'll make it, and if he does maybe he'll look like a grade B at times and a grade B+ at other times. Thanks for your take!

by igreen01 on Dec 24, 2005 5:24 PM EST reply actions  

B
My thoughts would be that if you are torn between a B and B+, he would likely be better ranked as a B.  At least for the time being I think caution is prudent.  Prospects often get talked up, only to later collapse and flame out, and it seems pitchers are especially vulnerable to this.  That, and a grade of B is still very good.
"People think it must be fun to be a super genious, but they don't know how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world." - Calvin

by RVachon on Dec 24, 2005 5:29 PM EST reply actions  

The potential is there
But, I am not sure if he will put it together.  Granted he has played in some hitter-friendly leagues, but I am concerned about his propensity to give up the long ball and his SLG% against is not where you want it to be.  His G/F is good, but considering that his pitches can be driven, he will need to induce more ground balls (or miss more bats) to succeed

by mtk52983 on Dec 24, 2005 5:40 PM EST reply actions  

B is still a good grade
I'm part of the Volquez apologist's. I don't think he's destined for greatness. I just know he's got great stuff. The kid doesn't have a clue of how to pitch yet.

I thought he was very predictable with his pitching mix at the major league level.

When you've got a Young guy who throws 95 with decent control for his age I can understand MLB guys wanting to see him. I think they put a lot of pressure on him.

My belief is that the good ones make it regardless of what pressure is put on them. If you are going to be a baseball player you eventually need to come to grips with failure.

As a real life Rockies fan, I've always thought we babied our prospects far too much.

I disagreed with John in that I liked Volquez's changeup an awful lot. This isn't the first time a young guy's been hit hard at 21 years of age.

I think he should repeat AA or perhaps pitch in AAA. I wouldn't call him back to the Majors untill he's dominating AA.

I think B is a very good grade. I think he's young enough that you could grade him a B+ on potential and still sleep at night.  

by RMF on Dec 24, 2005 6:31 PM EST reply actions  

remind you of fellow Ranger Benoit
Does he sound eerily similar to Jaoquin Benoit-that is just who i was thinking of, as I was reading his report

by gashousegang on Dec 24, 2005 6:37 PM EST up reply actions  

how might an upcomer like
cabrera (p balt) be graded..

mlb batters have seen it all before and a guy with one solid, above average pitch and overall semi-so-so control, meaning they can throw stikes but can't consistently locate, go somewhere below the  "get eaten alive" category..

may or may not improve from there upon regular mlb duty.

doesn't seem like an exception...

c+  

by dryice on Dec 24, 2005 7:12 PM EST reply actions  

grade
either a B or B-. a B+ is to generous for voloquez who right now, is mostly a lot of hype and not enough production.

he does have very good stuff and I think he has an excellent change up. But like others have said, the kid doesnt have a clue how to harness his stuff yet.

by npurcell on Dec 24, 2005 7:19 PM EST reply actions  

BB/Rate
I guess the reason I'm excited for Volquez aside from the stuff is that I don't see him walking a lot of people at high A or AA. Remember he's a pretty young guy.

I would like to see Volquez strike more guys out. However, I think that's going to change in the next 2 years.

If anything, I think Volquez throws too many hittable strikes and I think his sequence is too predictable.

I think the key to his success as pitcher is his slider or breaking ball or whatever he's throwing. I love the fastball, like the change.

He must command the slider. If he can throw all 3 pitches he's going to start striking guys out at a much higher rate. Combine that with the reasonable walk totals and you have yourself a very nice pitcher.

by RMF on Dec 24, 2005 7:53 PM EST reply actions  

C-
C- here.....nothing special.

by grandslam on Dec 24, 2005 7:58 PM EST reply actions  

He's special
I take it you haven't seen this guy.

I can tell you this:  guys who have played  with Danks, Diamond and Volquez almost universally rank Volquez as easily best of the three, both in terms of pure stuff and in terms of "makeup" or moxie or cojones, etc.    And that is in no way a knock on the other two.   There is great respect for them as well, but "Volqy" is the one of the three who has them in awe.

"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice... uh... uh... you aren't going to fool me again."

by mjh on Dec 25, 2005 7:41 PM EST up reply actions  

well
none of the DVD guys made me go wow last year with the stats they put up.

Lots of guys have great stats in A ball and high A ball.

We'll see how these guys pan out, i don't see #1 starter from any of these 3 though.

by hotshotschamp on Dec 25, 2005 8:46 PM EST up reply actions  

No big argument
They've all got a long way to go and all three have the same problem:  inconsistency.  Each of them has moments of brilliance.  But if you could watch the best performance of each of the three on consecutive nights, you would probably conclude that Volquez is pretty clearly the most talented of the three.  I readily admit that I am too enamored of this kid, but we Rangers fans don't often  get to see pitchers with this much pure talent.

While I agree that there probably isn't a #1 (or an A or A- grade prospect) in the DVD group, it's easier to see #1 out of Volquez than the other two at this point.  He has far more velocity than the other two.  One night, I watched him fire off several 98 mph heaters...in the 8th inning (verified by two guns).  His fastball has much more movement than Diamond's and his change is really an overwhelming pitch, more often than not.  I've seen dozens of Volquez changeups that sink and run so much that you think they must be splittys.  To me, his slider is something along the lines of a 50 pitch at best.

And, as I've stated many times, he's got that charisma and personality that stands out.  He seems to be respected and very well liked by his teammates.  Maybe that doesn't matter, but if it does, there's no question he's got that going for him.

by mjh on Dec 28, 2005 7:09 AM EST up reply actions  

B
I like Volquez and saw him in Frisco once last year.  He threw hard but also labored to throw strikes and at times even to miss bats.  Anyone who can throw 95 with movement has possiblities, but if they don't slow him down a bit and let him perform well in AA before giving him the opportunity to do the same at AAA he could really flame out.  Possiblities but not yet high probablities of developing into a star is what you define as a B.  That is Volquez to me right now.

by BERSMR on Dec 24, 2005 11:56 PM EST reply actions  

B grade is plenty of respect
I don't think giving Volquez a B grade is disrespecting his raw talent whatsoever.  If Volquez puts it together and becomes an Ace or a #2, I don't think critics will go back and look at Sickels' grade as an instance where he was short changing his talent.  

I have been reading John's books since 1997 and B grade, tools laden prospects have always drawn my attention.  

Everybody here reads Baseball America for further analysis, let the traditional scouting publication tell us about Volquez's ceiling based on his physical attributes.

Sickels has plenty of respect for the traditional scouting side of evaluation, but he's always leaned towards the performance aspect as the bottom line.  John's tough grading scale is the reason why I keep purchasing his books.  When in doubt, John should go back to his sabermetric roots and tell it like it is.  

by sdbaseballfan on Dec 25, 2005 4:47 AM EST reply actions  

thanks John
love the off-the-cuff analysis, and looking forward to the book.

you do terrific work...

and Merry Christmas!

by Azteca on Dec 25, 2005 11:50 PM EST reply actions  

B is gernerous
From that picture of him, I would bet money his shoulder blows before he ever sees the show.  

Look up "bad mechanics" in the dictionary and you'll see that picture, wow.  

by HuskerBob on Dec 27, 2005 2:07 PM EST reply actions  

not sure I'd say that
Sure, he throws from a lower arm angle and his head is a bit off of his landing leg...

by SteveP on Dec 31, 2005 1:47 PM EST up reply actions  

gernerous = generous
maybe I should get my own dictionary

by HuskerBob on Dec 27, 2005 2:07 PM EST reply actions  

that's funny.......
don't beat yourself up to bad. I've done far worse......lol

by the pinstripes on Dec 27, 2005 4:51 PM EST up reply actions  

CalLeaguers.com Scouting Report
http://www.calleaguers.com/VolquezEdison05.html

Volquez has a 2004 report on the site as well. Apparently his stuff did make a big leap from '04 to '05.

starring Alfonso Soriano as Vinny C in RFK part deux

by natsfan2005 @ Minor League Ball on Dec 27, 2005 5:13 PM EST reply actions  

Another thing to keep in mind
For what it's worth, something interesting happened to the Frisco pitchers last summer.  After pitching coach Steve Luebber was let go in the middle of the season, they came under the leadership of Rangers minor league pitching coordinator Rick Adair (formerly of the Braves and Blue Jays orgs) and  were essentially ordered to throw almost nothing but fastballs.  So from about mid-July on, all of them were throwing fastballs about 90% of the time.  One night, Diamond threw something like 88 fastballs out of 90 pitches.   This trend wasn't lost on the Texas League.

by mjh on Dec 28, 2005 7:17 AM EST reply actions  

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