Critique Terry Ryan

Twins GM Terry Ryan
I'd like to do an experiment today and test a new feature idea: Critique the GM!
Today's victim is Terry Ryan, GM of the Minnesota Twins.
Let's talk about the job that Ryan has done as GM. What do you see as his major strengths? His major weaknesses? If you could sit down with TR for half an hour, what advice would you give him?Would you want to hire him as GM of your own team?
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66 comments
Comments
well
He's not given the yankees/Boston type payroll. SO he has to do with what is given to him. He is a patient guy and won't make a deal just to make a deal. He also respects his players, if they want out he will do that for them, and tries to stay out of the press, if he can at all costs.
The AJ for Liriano, Nathan, Boof trade may go down as one of his finest.
He's not without fault, he's made some questionable moves, but every GM does. He has some great scouts working for him led by Jim Rantz..twins scouts have some of the longest tenure of any organization in baseball, that's huge. They depend a lot on their Minor league prospects, and he almost refuses to trade any top flight minor league guys ever.
It will be interesting to see what he does with all their pitching in the minors, in the next 5 years, as they have so many projected quality starters, but only 5 spots in the rotation, 4 of which look ear marked for johan/silva/baker/liriano.
I'd say he's a top 5 GM, but then again I'm not sure how you properly rank them. He keeps this small market team respectable on a yearly basis lately, and given the opprotunity I think he will push for a WS in the next 5 years, if the chips fall in place.
The one think TR and his scouts need to do is find that 30+ HR bat, in the middle of the order that they have been lacking since GULP 1987.
Terry Ryan is very good about getting draft picks and compensation for his players, ala Latroy Hawkins, and Eddie Guardado--- which we turned into guys like glen perkins, Jay Rainville, and Waldrop. He gets compensation for players then usually can plug in another player in their spot, like Joe Nathan for Eddie G, or Crain for Latroy.
This year he will get compensation for Jaque JOnes and Kubel will take over RF. All 3 players are or should be upgrades over their former guys and recieved 1st round compensation.
I'd give him a A- or B+ on his job given what he's working with (pohlad) I think Terry Ryan is doing his job forsure.
by hotshotschamp on Dec 16, 2005 10:30 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Ryan
But any praise for Ryan must also include praise for
a) his scouts, who have done some great work in recent years
and
b) the team owners, who let Ryan build up the farm system, even through a few losing seasons. that said, he does work on a very tight budget, and the Twins currently have all kinds of stadium issues...
My opinion of Ryan's trades and acquisitions are generally positive - after all, that AJP trade was ridiculously one sided.
The organization runs a pretty tight ship - if you can complain about anything, it is that they try too hard to get players to fit a general philosophy, both in terms of playing style and in terms of personal demeanor. A lot of people say this is why Ortiz never flourished with them and why they get rid of guys like Romero and AJP.
by sasquatch83 on Dec 16, 2005 10:47 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Pohlad
But he's among the wealthiest owners in the league, and has repeatedly tried to rape Minnesota government coffers, allthewhile investing next to nothing (comparatively) in his own ball club. He's among the worst owners in the game. He's also among the worst owners FOR the game.
(By the way, I too think Ryan is terrific. He's really limited signing onerous long-term contracts (excpet Stewart's, perhaps); has made some nice FA pickups--Nathan, CSilva; and has made the right decisions about who to let go (Spazinski, Hawkins, JacquesJ--hopefully, CGuzman, & even Koskie--though he's said to regret that move). Among the better GMs.)
by Azteca on Dec 16, 2005 10:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Stadium
by natsfan2005 on Dec 16, 2005 10:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The last deal
It was the best deal that has come up yet, it still has a sliver of a chance of passing in January.
by drjim on Dec 16, 2005 11:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hennepin
by natsfan2005 on Dec 16, 2005 11:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hennepin County
The proposed stadium will be downtown, right behind the Target Center where the T-Wolves play.
by drjim on Dec 16, 2005 12:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
By the way, natsfan, did you read de Mause's piece in BP last month. He highlights how, according to a recent study, the Metrodome is the ONLY stadium in MLB that's actually made a profit for the local city/state. A remarkable accomplishment, despite Pohlad, to say the least...
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=4591
by Azteca on Dec 16, 2005 11:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The latest deal...
by cmathewson on Dec 16, 2005 11:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gov. Pawlenty
There was talk during the summer of a special session for legislators to discuss un-finished business. The special session is where Pawlenty could have shown some leaadership. Instead, Pawlenty created some crazy survey/questionaire/correct-answer-only form that all the lawmakers were supposed to fill out. If the answers were correct (in Pawlenty's POV), bills formed without debate, and pre-disposed votes for all measures were formualted before-hand, then Pawlenty would have called a special session. Since that's not really democracy, no one played along.
The Hennepin County stadium bill, as it was in 2005, will probably not be on the table for the '06 session. Over the last decade of debate Pohlad has offered to chip in between 1/4 and 1/3 of the costs of construction. Lawmakers have pretty consistantly said that the Twins should pay at least half if not in excess of 3/4 of the costs. It has turned into a massivly stupid game of chicken involving millions of dollars, thousands of hours of lawmakers' time, and constant threats of the Twins moving. The sad reality is that the amount the government would chip in today is more than the entire cost of the stadium when the issue was first brought forth a decade ago.
One last thing; two clowns who were there at the beginning of the battle are John Marty and Phil Krinke. Nice.
by Jaerbesan on Dec 16, 2005 12:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pohlad
Pohlad's budgets and attempts to get a publicly financed stadium are pretty irritating. But it's not like baseball isn't rife with owners like Pohlad - if anything, he's more the norm than the exception now.
by sasquatch83 on Dec 16, 2005 11:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Terry Ryan
My quick analysis is that Terry Ryan did a good job building a contender with the payroll that he was allowed, but I'm not happy with his inability (or unwillingness) to fill holes on the team. If the team needs a DH, get one. I understand the need to fill depth at 2B/SS, but the window of opportunity to contend is closing, if it's not already closed.
I'll expand more after work.
by Megawatt on Dec 16, 2005 10:57 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Also a big fan...
On of my favorite stories of Ryan is how he behaved during the contraction talks a couple of years ago. Despite being offered jobs in different and bigger mearkets, he stayed loyal to the Twins and the other employees of the club. The employees repaid the loyalty and the Twins, despite the very real threat of contraction, lost no employees and currently employ the longest tenured farm and scouting directors, as well as very talented assistant GMs.
One other thing I real respect about Ryan is how he handles the local media. He is always very honest and humble, and he never dodges a question. As the Twins were fading last year, he answered all of the questions put in front of him and took responsibility for the poor performance.
He will never have a book written about him and his manangement style, mostly because it is so boring. He works hard, is deliberate in his decisons, deflects credit, is extremely loyal to his charges, and he flat out loves baseball. At heart he is a scout, and this is a benefit when he makes trades for other teams minor leaguers. He knows what he is doing, has a plan, and more often than not is able to execute it. He will never panic, and the organization is better because of it.
All that being said, my only complaint about Ryan is that he might be too cautious. He seems a little too hesistant to pull the trigger on a deal that might have put the Twins over the top in the previous three years as they pushed towards the playoffs. Also, I think he is a little slow in signing long term extensions. He could have locked up Santana a year earlier, though he did remedy that by signing Joe Nathan to a great deal before last year.
Ryan gets criticized for his inability to add a big bat, but he hasn't really had a good opportunity to do so, aside from giving up Liriano, which I wouldn't do at this time. He has kept pitching and defense as the team's strength, and I believe this will win more often than not.
As a Twins fan, I feel good knowing that Terry Ryan is my general manager. I really couldn't think of anyone else I would want in that spot.
by drjim on Dec 16, 2005 10:57 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
billy beane > terry ryan
by jrfelix on Dec 17, 2005 3:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yesterday
Now it looks as though they're here to stay (at third base)
Oh I believe(d) in (Terry Ryan) yesterday.
Ryan has been a good GM for the Twins, understanding their budget and how they could compete with that restraint. He protects prospects and values pitching above all else, which certainly seems to be the best strategy for long term success.
He drafts well, especially pitching, and has a very good farm system in place.
He has made some excellent trades, such as adding Shannon Stewart mid-season, having Jason Bartlett as a throw in from San Diego, stealing Liriano and Bonser and Nathan from the Giants for AJ Pierzynski, and obviously taking Santana in the Rule 5 Draft and storing him in the bullpen for 2 years.
However, recently he seems to have been an exercise in frustration. As good as the Twins pitching is, he has been unable to add the impact hitter to make the team a championship threat.
Until yesterday, the only real, and very large, blemish on his resume was allowing David Ortiz to walk and become an MVP (he should have won) in Boston. Were Ortiz hitting cleanup for the Twins, they might have another World Series title instead of the Red Sox.
The Twins weakness for many years has been their offensive production and yesterday's signing of Tony Batista is a sign that Ryan simply does not understand how to put an offense together. It is his worst move as GM, even worse than Ortiz (who had underperformed as a Twin) and I may have lost my belief in him as being able to create a potential champion in Minnesota.
Whatever the organizational problems are that prevent the Twins from having better offensive production, they start at the top and that is where responsibility lies.
If I were to give him advice, I would tell him that the sainted Tom Kelly's approach to offense is not the way to do it anymore and changes need to be made throughout the organization to improve the hitting approach of their prospects and major leaguers. David Ortiz is Exhibit A of this. Justin Morneau is looking like Exhibit B.
I would also advise him to fire Ron Gardenhire, who is a stubborn and small-minded manager. He appears to play favorites with his players, giving the veterans he likes chance after chance, despite terrible performance, while giving the hook to young guys he doesn't like/trust for having one bad month and then criticizing them in the media. That and Gardenhire's managing in the playoffs (run Nathan out there for another inning, sure, why not) make him inappropriate for a team that must rely on talented, unproven young players to compete.
by Victor on Dec 16, 2005 11:10 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
he's ok
Ryan has generally made good trades, and has drafted extremely well. The thing about the Twins is that they accumulate talent to begin with, but then they squander it. Their system coughed up about seven OF/1B at once. That sounds great, but did it actually end up helping the team any? Not really. They stayed completely pat, and either played everyone part-time or left them at AAA, meaning no one got a chance to prove anything. Meanwhile, they had no middle IF because they waited forever on Rivas and Guzman, apparently wishing for a miracle. They needed to make a decision. Sit down, decide which OF/1B they wanted to keep, and trade the other ones for middle IF help, because what they had just wasn't going to work. Instead, both the OF and IF languished. Now after a few years of doing this, they're left with a team that simply can't hit, and especially has absolutely no power hitting at all.
Being patient and emphasizing pitching and defense may be good things in moderation, but Ryan takes them to true extremes and turns them into weaknesses.
by Mean Dean on Dec 16, 2005 11:16 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Right on drjim!
by cmathewson on Dec 16, 2005 11:18 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
my 2 cents
He and his organization do very well at drafting and developing young players. He's also made some excellent trades (the Pierzynski one being the most obvious) and a brilliant Rule 5 draft (Santana). He's done an excellent job of building a contender with a limited payroll.
I don't blame him for Ortiz because I don't think a lot of people thought he'd be this good (he's not the MVP, but that's besides the point), not even the Red Sox. Remember, he wasn't even starting on a regular basis for Boston until a portion into his first season with them.
That being said, I think he's been a little slow on the trigger in getting a bat. He's got plenty of pitching prospects, yet he seems reluctant to do something with that depth. Maybe Luis Castillo was a good start, but if he had the chance to get a player like Blalock, he should have traded his depth for that bat.
Overall, I'd want him as a GM. I think he's one of the most underrated ones in baseball.
by jc3 on Dec 16, 2005 11:26 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
wrong
by jrfelix on Dec 17, 2005 3:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure it is
Funny how we can wax poetic about Billy Beane and NEVER criticize him. For someone who has never been the GM of a team who has actually won a playoff series, he's awfully tough to criticize. Especially since we all thought they should win a series with Hudson, Mulder, and Zito on the same team. And, especially since they blew 2 2-0 series leads, AND lost to Terry Ryan's Twins, who have the same payroll issue. Beane is a good GM, and he is better than Terry Ryan, but let's not go nuts about how he is so much better.
by jc3 on Dec 17, 2005 2:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Terry Ryan
by Marc Normandin on Dec 16, 2005 11:30 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
What's the point?
Mike Radcliff has been doing a terrific job in that capacity.
by Sulla on Dec 16, 2005 6:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
by Marc Normandin on Dec 19, 2005 4:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ryan
He's in a similar position now, as applied to pitchers, and it'll be interesting to see how he handles it.
by Vlad on Dec 16, 2005 11:57 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
all i can say is.....
by DavidWrightismyGod on Dec 16, 2005 12:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Ryan
by RVachon on Dec 16, 2005 12:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
yup
the only real knock is ryan's tendency to sit on his hands while obvious, gaping holes in the roster kill the twins' playoff chances. the middle infield has been a black hole for years, and he has only now done anything to address it, despite a ridiculous overabundance of corner outfielders and quality pitching prospects (and you could argue that with the marlins' fire sale, the trade opportunity just fell into his lap). maybe this approach enables him to be confident of getting the best value when he does make a deal, but he's been missing out on opportunities to improve his team.
by jpahk on Dec 16, 2005 1:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
TR
With that said, he has some obvious flaws. The outfielder logjam a few years ago - Mike Ryan, Mike Restovich, Todd Sears, Lew Ford - he didn't trade any of them and only Ford became a (sort of) productive player. As somebody said already, he is overly cautious. He needs to pull the trigger when he has the chance or we'll never get a decent power hitter. Castillo was a good start to plug a hole, and Batista could be a useful platoon guy - but I'm afraid that Batista was his big power acquisition this year, and that he's gonna let him start.
BTW John, nice feature idea. I'd like to see some more of them.
by BenB on Dec 16, 2005 2:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Ryan
Ryan's strength is clearly acquiring little-known prospects and turning them into key contributors: Carlos Silva, Jason Bartlett. He's also great at building bullpens on the fly.
by jianfu on Dec 16, 2005 2:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
in house/out house
by cmathewson on Dec 16, 2005 3:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Draft picks
He did better letting these players go to free agency than he could have done through trading them. And he cleverly manipulated the process by offering arbitration to Guardado, Koskie, and Jones after he knew they had better offers on the table. It's this kind of resourcefulness that goes largely unnoticed in the mainstream press, but will pay huge dividends down the road.
Finally, I don't think you can emphasize enough that he does the best job getting low A prospects for midling players: (Mays, Lohse, Ortiz, Ford, Bartlett, Justin Jones, Alexi Casilla). If he is stuck witha contract like Mientkieviz's or Romero's, he gets maximum value by reaching deep into the trading partner's system. No other GM does that better. And he's willing to take criticism on the chin at the time of these trades, when nobody knows anything about the players he acquires, except you guys, of course.
by cmathewson on Dec 16, 2005 5:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Outfielders
The only outfield prospect they didn't do enough with is the sad case of Michael Restovich, whom they tried to sneak through waivers at the end of spring training 2005. He ended up getting claimed and released by three teams last year, and is now officially a free agent. Not even the Royals have signed him, which might indicate that he wasn't such a great prospect after all.
by cmathewson on Dec 16, 2005 5:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
One more....
by cmathewson on Dec 16, 2005 5:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Seigneur Sickels
by Sulla on Dec 16, 2005 6:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
not sickles but my assessment of twins offseason
They possibly could trade lohse, to make way for baker/liriano at the #4/#5 slots, but either way their pitching is very adequate.
TR stole Luis Castillo. Travis Bowyer, has a straight fastball, and he got torched last part of the AAA year, then with the twins and in the AFL. He needs to add some pitches besides a heater if he will do anything. Scott Tyler was about our 17th best SP prospect so no loss there.
Batista is a weird move, but he only cost a little over 1 mill, if he can hit 20+ homers and drive in 85+ rbi's it will be a good move.
Losing Jone's will be a good thing, as Kubel will take much better at bats and provide more offense.
Terry Ryan still needs to get a DH in here though, one who can knock in some runs, whether by free agency or trade.
by hotshotschamp on Dec 16, 2005 7:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I like him, but...
JUAN CASTRO.
You have a limited payroll and you feel the need to commit to two years to this league avg dope.
I understand the Batista deal is not guaranteed so I may cut him some slack for that one, but ...
If Batista can't hack it in Japan, what's he gonna do in the Majors three or four years after his peak?
He also overpaid for one great half season of Torii Hunter.
The pitching is great, but another no show offense isn't gonna sit well with the fans.
by Shep on Dec 16, 2005 11:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Ryan
Scouting other teams (especially low minors), making dump trades for useful parts, managing a small payroll, bullpen construction, amassing depth in the majors and minors.
Weaknesses:
Developing top prospects, drafting, "win now" trades.
Any team with Terry Ryan at its head doesn't have to worry much about rebuilding if he has talent to work with. He cycles through good players and finds decent replacements for overvalued players like no one else. Looking at the turnover from 2002-2004, it's amazing that the Twins were primed to make deep runs into the playoffs all three years.
Ryan's the best in the business at getting impact talent when he is forced to dump players. Joe Mays, Kyle Lohse, Carlos Silva, and Francisco Liriano are all good examples of players acquired during dump trades. Most of the players he gets are either useful spare parts like Nick Punto or high potential low minors guys who have panned out at an insanely high rate (Lohse, Mays, Liriano, etc.).
On the negative side, Ryan shows a frustrating inability to trade some of his impact minor-league talent for the pieces he needs to make a run. The Twins' first round picks haven't exactly been the most successful in the league either, mostly because they seem content to draft toolsy players that often don't develop (BJ Garbe, etc).
Ryan also sometimes makes moves based on "feel" (like moving Cuddyer off 3B) instead of looking at the numbers. He's a believer in traditional scouting, which hurts the Twins the most in the draft, because they haven't had good success locating talent in the early rounds.
Despite his flaws, Ryan's a great GM, probably one of the best in the league.
by limozeen on Dec 17, 2005 12:20 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
DRAFTING???
by Terry Ryan Jr on Dec 17, 2005 1:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Terry Ryan doesn't draft
by Sulla on Dec 17, 2005 3:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Report Card
Drafting: B+
While he is known for being a "scouts guy" he has gotten some bang for his buck. I really think that the twins are an organization that looks for physical specimens to hit but if you look at his draft record the past few years he has set himself up nicely with some arms out of college whom are close to the show (see: Glen Perkins, Jesse Crain). I really think that teams like the Braves and the Twins are actually helping themselves out by sticking to thier scouting guns in a post-moneyball world. They get more value for thier picks than they did when less teams weighted performance as highly as they do now. The Twins have had some of the best drafts of recent memory. Jim Rantz has had a lot to do with that but I think that Ryan deserves some of the credit.
Minors Scouting: A+
Ortiz for a falling apart Dave Hollins
Mays for a useless Roberto Kelly
Santana for $50,000
Lohse for an aging Rick Aguilera
Lirano as a throw-in for AJ
Bartlett for Buchanon
Ford for Hector Carasco
Frankie Rodriguez (who was decent rotation filler for 3 years) for 2 months without Aguilera
Good at getting something out of the rock and a hard place moments.
Warm Cuddly Feelings: A+ to a fault
Minnesota where the stars go to die. There was a time in the late 90's when Steinbach, Molitor, and Winfield all went back home to die. It would be like when a lion reaches a certain age at the zoo and its sad to display him to the public they send him back to the wilds of Africa to get his ass kicked by the other lions. Or filthy 24 year old pitchers with exploding breaking stuff.
Major League Scouting: C
Hey Twins fans, remember back in 2000 when the Twins were trying to fend off the hard charging Indians for thier first division title in 9 years. Only if that team had a bat. Oh, thats right it traded one of the most underappreciated bats of that time frame Matt Lawton to the Mets for a proven winner in Rick Reed. (Rick Reed is my answer to people that claim that wins are a valuable stat.) I think that he was like a kid in a candy store that July. Imagine if you had to pick up the Brent Gates, Alex Ochoas, and Otis Nixons of the world and all of a sudden you got to be a big player during the trade season. I think he might have been like a kid who goes to a toy store for the first time. He didn't care what he got he just needed something. He made the titanic mistake of getting rid of Ortiz, and the damnest part about it is I don't think he had a reason for it other than Dougy M rubber pine tar on his helmet, and that that was good for team morale. He has a poor track record of handing out contract extensions after career years. Torii Hunter might be worth what he's paid. But I doubt it. Shannon Stewart was hansomly rewarded for his half season of excellence, Joe Mays now has over 30 million in ML salary under his belt thanks to one great season. (Seriously, I think that this is in the same ballpark as the Dreifort contract in terms of madness)
That aside. For all the crap that he got for signing Castro. Looking back would you have really wanted the black hole formerly known as Christian Guzman at the keystone. He does cut bait on his own players at the right time. (With the exception of Big Papi) AJ was a luxury that the Twins didn't need and that might end up being up there with Alexander/Smoltz or Anderson/Bagwell trades in the end. So, when it comes to ML scouting he's either idiot or idiot savant. You take your pick.
Overall: A-
Seriously, are there 5 ML GM's that you would rather have. I don't think so. Ryan has more playoff wins that Billy Beane does and works under the same constraints. Actually if moneyball is all about taking advantage of trends Ryan is in the same class of GM in my opinion (which is sure to be un-biased based on my screen name).
by Terry Ryan Jr on Dec 17, 2005 1:35 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
no
Also, everyone is slurping Ryan for taking Santana in the rule V draft. why? he took a flier on a guy his scouts pointed out, and he turned out to be amazing. why does ryan get all the credit? the scouts should get the credit if anyone. and even they shouldnt be praised that much. santana is amazing, sure, but the fact of the matter is the twins GOT LUCKY. thats it.
the twins player stacked farm system is not necessarily a product of terry ryan. if anything, he is detrimental, because i imagine he has the most input on their first round picks, which have been busts (denard span, etc.). yes, he ripped the giants on the pierzynski deal. what have you done for me lately?
by jrfelix on Dec 17, 2005 3:35 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
uh
He showed no signs of doing what he is doing now, and he was ALWAYS hurt like I said.
Props to David, but i don't blame TR for not picking him up, cuz at the time he wasn't deserving.
by hotshotschamp on Dec 17, 2005 4:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ortiz
"It would have made more sense to non-tender Mienkiewicz and go to arbitration with Ortiz, but Ortiz's annual struggle to stay healthy probably squelched that idea. Ortiz is a thoroughly useful DH, but this winter's market is flooded with useful DHs. As a Red Sock he's every bit as nifty a pickup as Jeremy Giambi"
So BP didn't think that the Red Sox stole Mo Vaughn Jr from the Twins. Basically, Ortiz was viewed as a 'useful' but injury prone player. He was not viewed as a dominant force. And you can look at his stats with the Twins, not that great for a DH. He was simply a DH who slugged b/w .450 and .500.
Ortiz just made a dramatic improvement in his game some how. Some have suggested that he was always so pull happy and the dimensions of Fenway finally gave him enough incentive to start using the whole field. If that is true, he may not have made this leap with any other org.
by natsfan2005 on Dec 17, 2005 9:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He was more than useful
by Sulla on Dec 17, 2005 10:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ortiz
He didn't cost that much and he showed flashes of his potential while healthy but he was blocked by Doug Mientkiewicz.
In fact, in one post Ryan is credited for the Hollins for Ortiz (what was his name at that time-it wasn't Ortiz) trade.
Also, some say he isn't in charge of the draft. He's the GM. He's in charge of EVERYTHING the team does. Whether he's personally doing it or not, he's in charge.
by Shep on Dec 17, 2005 9:44 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Oh, shut up
You know what I meant.
by Sulla on Dec 17, 2005 10:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ryan
Ryan is a good GM, even a brilliant one, in many ways. He makes good trades, finds spare parts, keeps the bullpen humming. Although Radcliff runs the draft, Radcliff is a Ryan protege.
My beef with Ryan is that he's let the offense stagnate too long. This is a hangover from the Tom Kelly contact hitting days.
Overall I'd give Ryan a B+/A- grade as a GM. Which means he is one of the top 5 in the game.
by John Sickels on Dec 17, 2005 10:44 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
*rolls eyes*
If Beane really thought Ortiz would be the MVP-contender he ended up being, why didn't he pick him up from FAcy????
The truth is no one thought Oritz would become the player he is.
by Justin & Joe on Dec 17, 2005 3:49 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
He is a top 5 GM
I think Ryan's only weakness is scouting bats. He is fantastic at getting premium arms at every level. Arguing who is better between Beane and Ryan is akin to determining if Longoria is hotter than Alba.
by duke on Dec 17, 2005 4:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Joe Mays
by natsfan2005 on Dec 17, 2005 5:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Mays
Second, Mays was a decent, great at times pitcher before he got injured. He was a solid control pitcher with decent a GB/FB ratio, and he did get lucky in 2001 wit ha 3.16 ERA. But if he hadn't gotten injured, he would have been a better than average pitcher who gave the team 200+ innings of 4.00 ERA or so.
As for giving him playing time (especially this year), Mays was actually a decent pitcher through July. Before the All-Star break, he had a 4.13 ERA. He broke down at the end of the year, probably from post-injury fatigue. Now that he's a full year removed from his injury, I hope he can become a better than average pitcher once again. If he catches on with a team as a back-end starter, I predict he will outperform Scott Elarton.
by limozeen on Dec 17, 2005 7:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mays
by natsfan2005 on Dec 17, 2005 8:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mays
He looked like the exact same pitcher to me. I don't think he broke down, I think batters just adjusted to him.
Even when he was sporting a 4.13 ERA his peripherals were absolute crap. Mays' second half decline was more or less an inevitability.
by Sulla on Dec 17, 2005 9:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dear Mr. HelloGoodBye
Is Beane superior? I think he's better at trades. But he's not better at drafting players because he discounts a huge pool of talent by refusing to endorse drafting high school players. But they're both very good GMs with dipolar opposite styles. If I owned a team and had my choice, I would choose Rayn because I favor stabiltiy and building from within over acquiring outside talent. But that's just me.
by cmathewson on Dec 17, 2005 9:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
wow... you are really pushing it
And, if Epstien is so great, how come he's still out of a job?Epstein quit of his own free will , and does not want to be working in baseball right now, for what seem like personal reasons. As soon as he is interested in working in baseball again, many teams will want him.
Letting Ortiz go was a mistake. Not because Ortiz became a 45 HR/year MVP candidate, which was unforeseeable. But because it was clear that he was at least a good hitter, had the potential to get even better due to his age, and that there was no compelling reason to get rid of him (the "reasons" basically boil down to thinking worse players were better than him.) Ryan is a good GM. Who made a big mistake. That is not a contradiction. You don't need to prove he made zero mistakes in order to prove he is a good GM.
by Mean Dean on Dec 17, 2005 10:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
On the topic of Beane not drafting HS players...
by Anibal the Cannibal on Dec 18, 2005 10:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ryan's mistakes
And it was not the first, nor will it be the last mistake Ryan makes. Giving big contracts to Guzman, Milton, and Mays hurt him. Reed's contract hurt him. Stewarts contract continues to sting, as will Hunters'. And who knows how many trades he has passed up in order to hang onto prospects who never materialized.
But if you're going to err with his budget, it's better to err on the side of your prospects IMO.
by cmathewson on Dec 18, 2005 10:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Red in the face.
by Terry Ryan Jr on Dec 19, 2005 5:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ryan
- Terry Ryan is a good GM who has built a deep minor league system even while being successful at the major league level.
- Ryan did not let Ortiz go because he thought he had better players, he let him go because he was arbitration eligible and he had younger prospects ready to play (LeCroy, Kielty, Buchanan ...) No other team would give him even a minor league prospect probably for the same reason. It was not clear Ortiz would be worth what he could claim in arbitration. If Ryan could have kept Ortiz at the price the Red Sox paid I suspect he would still be a Twin.
- I think one tendency that has hurt Ryan which has not been mentioned. That is is his deferral to his managers opinions of players. Walker and Redman were both traded away for virtually nothing because the manager was down on them. I think we may see the same thing with Romero and Rivas and probably others.
- Until last year, I think Ryan did a pretty good job of putting together an offense given the team's strategy of emphasizing pitching and defense and its budget. If you are looking for cheap players who can play defense you end up with guys who hit like Castro.
Before last year, weren't the Twins in the top half of the league in runs scored? If so, that is pretty remarkable given the budget and the emphasis on pitching and defense.
by TT on Dec 19, 2005 2:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Good points TT
But the general point is true: TR takes his manager's opinion into account, perhaps to a fault. Gardy's new favorites are guys who play the game the way he did: scrappy and crappy. So Punto, Castro, and Tyner will get every opportunity to succeed, and he dismissed guys like Restovich and Cuddyer because they're more laid back.
by cmathewson on Dec 19, 2005 4:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Terry Ryan
His pluses:
- Loyalty - he is extremely loyal to the owner and those under him. This helps foster great stability in the org.
- Ability to unearth talent in other organizations. The list of names is impressive: Santana, Ortiz, Silva, Nathan, Lohse - for giving up little in return
- Patience - he seems to have a very well-thought out philosophy and sticks to it.
- Ability to field a competitive team with one of the lower budgets in ML Baseball.
- Loyalty - He simply does not hold some of his people accountable for their failures. His sticking with Scott Ullger is a prime example. His deference to his managers is open to criticism. He obviously felt that TK with 2 world championships earned the right to rule the roost on the field; however, Gardenhire has shown some glaring weaknesses as a manager and while his 3 divisional championships have given him some latitude, another season like last and his tenure should end. The real test then will be whether Ryan has the fortitude to pull that off.
- Inability to convert draft picks to major league caliber players. One starter(Radke) and two relievers(Crain and Rincon) were developed internally. On offense, no all star-caliber players have been developed in his 13 years as GM/VP, despite having some very high draft picks during the horrible nineties. Hunter, a .250 hitter is probably the best of the lot during this period, though Mauer should surpass him quickly. But the number of busts is disturbing to say the least, McCarty, Banks, Garbe, Johnson, Mills - to name a few.
- As mentioned by many others, inability to fill glaring holes on offense. Except for the Stewart trade nothing was done over the past 4 years to improve a below average offense. Only by sinking to the bottom in '05 has Ryan turned his attention to building up the offense, after years of neglect. This omission is obvious in the total absence of any offensive help from the minors, now and possibly in the future, because Ryan and company were so intent on stockpiling pitchers they forgot about offense.
- An overall timidity on trades. He has basically been reactive in trading. Knoblach was traded after he demanded out; AJ was traded because he was blocking Mauer; Milton was traded because of salary. Contrasted with Beane who traded Mulder and Hudson a year before their contracts were up, Ryan has done nothing while letting Koskie, Guardado, and now Jones walk withoput any compensation other than draft choices. He has long been criticized for not wanting to give up prospects until their value has diminished, even when he has a surplus as he does now in pitching.
- A very poor record of converting top minor league prospects into major league caliber hitters. This inability has long been ascribed to Kelly's trying to transform all his prospects into slap hitters who go with the pitch. This tendency has driven away the few good hiotters who were developed, like Todd Walker, Ortiz, and maybe now, Morneau. Of course, as pointed out, it could be that the Twins just never knew how to draft good players in the first place.
by mike8791 on Dec 19, 2005 4:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Hello again
While you have identified many of Ryan's weaknesses, I think you persistently overstate the case.
- He did move Ulger out after it was clear the team underachieved. In prior years, as you state, the team did not underachieve offensively but lacked the talent. When the team underachieved in pitching, he also moved Such out, which caused Kelly to go too. If the team continues to underachieve, Gardenhire will go. But it's tough to fire a major league manager who's never had a losing season.
- Most of the division championship teams were composed of his draft picks. Hunter is an all-star caliber player. And he has filled the team again on the fly with players from the system while letting Ortiz, Guardado, Hawkins, Koskie, Mays, and Guzman go and trading Pierzinski, Mientkievicz and Romero.
- The Twins were a top 5 offensive team in the AL twice between 2002 and 2004.
- The Pierzinski trade could hardly be called timid when the closest guy he had to replace him had not played above AA. And the result of the draft picks he received for Hawkins and Koskie are on a par with the talent Beane received for Mulder and Hudson. Yet Neither hawkins nor Koskie are as valuable on the trade market as #1 starters.
- I think this is more a problem of coaching than talent. Even so, the team did score runs at a good clip for three years with Ryan's players. Let's wait until this crop of hitters (Mauer, Morneau, Kubel, Bartlett) has a full healthy season in the majors before we determine if this is Ryan's fault or his coaches.
by cmathewson on Dec 19, 2005 7:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs











