Rule V Quesion

by Gudy2Shoes on Nov 4, 2005 1:42 PM EST

I was just reading through the Kansas City Royals review, and took note of Andy Sisco. As a Rule V pick, he played really well this season, and I'm guessing he has a good chance of being in the big league bullpen again next season.

Does this happen very much with Rule V picks? Personally, I can't think of any situation where this has happened, but I don't follow Rule V picks all that closely. Are there any other Rule V picks that have played so well in their season in the majors that they just stuck on the roster?

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Comments

A few

I don't know exactly how the rule-5 section of the draft works, but this does happen from time to time. I know that if you select a guy in the major league portion of the rule-5 draft he must stay on your 25 man roster, or he will go back to his old team for a fee of I belive $25,000.

I can't name many of the rule-5 players who stuck, but the two most famous are Johan Santana, and I belive Roberto Clemente was also a rule-5 pick, correct me if I'm wrong on that one.

Chuck Lamar, you're fired- Stuart Sternburg

by Tyler on Nov 4, 2005 1:50 PM EST reply actions

PS

As Tyler correctly identified, the draft in question is named the Rule 5 draft not the Rule V....

by kenshin1 @ Minor League Ball on Nov 4, 2005 2:06 PM EST reply actions

"V" is the roman numeral for FIVE

"If you don't like Torey Lovullo, then you don't like baseball." Sparky Anderson

by natsfan2005 @ Minor League Ball on Nov 4, 2005 2:39 PM EST up reply actions

yes...

but the name of the draft is not Rule roman numeral five. Do you see people write "I owe you CMXII dollars" or refer to Cranial Nerve V (Trigeminal) as Cranial Nerve 5

by kenshin1 @ Minor League Ball on Nov 4, 2005 3:17 PM EST up reply actions

Google

Google "Rule V" on site:www.baseball-reference.com

you'll get 18000 hits. So i hardly see how someone saying "Rule V draft" is along the same lines as "I owe you CMXII dollars".

"If you don't like Torey Lovullo, then you don't like baseball." Sparky Anderson

by natsfan2005 @ Minor League Ball on Nov 4, 2005 3:31 PM EST up reply actions

Look...

I don't really want to argue. If you checked the rule book, you would see that the draft is in fact named the "Rule 5" draft. The frequency with which an error is repeated does not make it any less of an error.

by kenshin1 @ Minor League Ball on Nov 4, 2005 3:51 PM EST up reply actions

kvetch

That has to be the dumbest thing I've seen anyone complain about. What next, are you going to complain about the spelling of potato/e?

by CrimsonLiederhosen on Nov 4, 2005 7:36 PM EST up reply actions

Believe it or not...

this is one of the most continuous nitpicks in baseball. Invariably when the Rule 5 draft is brought up, someone uses the Roman numeral. And invariably someone makes the same nitpick. Since I have seen it so much I guess I notice it as well. Its not a big deal and I hope people keep on making the error so I can see the same argument repeated.

Most recently I saw the argument here:

http://ussmariner.com/?p=3099#comments

by templeUsox on Nov 5, 2005 7:43 PM EST up reply actions

more rule fivers

i believe Jay Gibbons was also a rule 5 pick as well as Willy Tavarez

by Keenlow on Nov 4, 2005 2:41 PM EST reply actions

Tavarez

If you meant Wily Taveras from the Astros, he wasn't a quasi-rule 5 (rule V). He was drafted by the Astros in the rule 5. He was working out, but the Astros weren't sure he was going to play in the bigs, so he was traded with Luke Scott from the Indians for Jeriome Robertson last preseason. Even though they already had his rights, they traded for him so they could send him to the minors if they wanted to.

by lenred on Nov 4, 2005 5:19 PM EST up reply actions

Original Question

This is all great information, but my original question is still unanswered.

I'm not looking for guys who were Rule 5 picks, but rather guys who stayed in the majors after spending their required season with the team.

by Gudy2Shoes on Nov 4, 2005 2:57 PM EST reply actions

Majors to stay

That's what I thought you were asking. Santana is definitely not an answer with regards to that question.

Gibbons appeared in the minors in 2004 after 3 years (2001-2003) in the majors. I think that was rehab tho'. I'd basically count that as majors to stay.

"If you don't like Torey Lovullo, then you don't like baseball." Sparky Anderson

by natsfan2005 @ Minor League Ball on Nov 4, 2005 3:03 PM EST up reply actions

I answered the guys I knew of

Santana and Clemente stayed with the team they were selected by. Santana pitched out of the pen for a few years. Clemente was selected by the Pirates and played 124 games as a 20 year old in the majors. I'm sure there are more but that's all I have. Clemente was part of the Broklyn Dodgers organization and Santana was an Astros at the time of their selection.

Chuck Lamar, you're fired- Stuart Sternburg

by Tyler on Nov 4, 2005 3:03 PM EST up reply actions

Well...

Not to nitpick, but if that's your question then Sisco isn't an answer to it either, since he hasn't had a chance to stick on the roster the following year yet... the Royals could easily send him to the minors if he struggles this spring, or even if he does OK but they decide they want to stretch him back out as a starter.

Gibbons, however, was a correct answer. He was taken by the Orioles and, rehab stints aside, hasn't been back to the minors.

Go ahead and shoot your mouth off, like it might kill the silence.

by ESiegrist on Nov 4, 2005 6:58 PM EST up reply actions

Scott Sauerbeck

65 appearances for Pittsburgh in 1999 as a Rule 5'er, and 75 appearances the following year. He remained a heavily used reliever for the Pirates until getting traded to Boston in 2003. Injuries caused him to miss all of 2004, but he reemerged with Cleveland this year.

by calig23 on Nov 4, 2005 6:53 PM EST reply actions

A few, sort of...

When I say sort of, I mean they started on, or spent most of the season on, the ML roster, but still went back and forth between the majors and minors through the course of the season...

Roberto Clemente (he's been mentioned, but they didn't mention that he did in fact stick to the major league roster, unlike George Bell)
Luis A. Gonzalez
Luis Ayala (very underrecognized reliever, probably one of the 10 best middle relievers in the NL over the past few years)
Aquilino Lopez, but obviously he got derailed quickly
Sauerbeck (already mentioned)
Matt Mantei (sort of)
Jorge Sosa (sort of)
Mike Shelton (sort of)
Wil Ledezma (sort of)
Hector Luna (sort of)

Sisco was an aberration to begin with. It's not too common that a guy who's that major league ready and that talented is available in the Rule 5 draft (and yes, it is Rule 5 and not Rule V....that's one of BA's big pet peeves, but Baseball Reference does list it as Rule V, which probably increases the hit rate for it tenfold)

by Brickhaus on Nov 5, 2005 1:34 PM EST reply actions

"Mike" Shelton...

Did you mean Chris Shelton?

by calig23 on Nov 5, 2005 8:37 PM EST up reply actions

Yeah

Brainfart. Happens.

by Brickhaus on Nov 6, 2005 7:47 AM EST up reply actions

Sisco...

doesn't he project as more than a middle reliever/ closer? He only relieved 1 game in his minor league career. Would they think about sending him to Omaha to get some more starter experience at a higher level?

by templeUsox on Nov 5, 2005 7:46 PM EST reply actions

Sisco

They have to keep him on the major league roster for the entire first year or a.) send him back to the Cubs b.) work a deal with the Cubs so they can send him to the minors or c.) put him on the DL.

They really liked him and didn't want to give up anything to keep him. They put him in the pen and it worked for them. I still don't understand why the Cubs left him off the 40 man, they had room for him. You can never have too many lefties.

"Second guessers are guys that could have never gotten it right the first time." - Tommy Lasorda (for guys that have no other defense for their actions.)

by slurve on Nov 6, 2005 8:29 PM EST up reply actions

Bobby

Bobby Abreu was one of the best Rule 5(or V) moves in the last several years. Of course the D-Rays after making a brilliant pickup traded him to the Phillies for basically nothing..... DOH!!!.

by eastin on Nov 6, 2005 10:18 AM EST reply actions

Actually...

I think Bobby Abreu was acquired in the expansion draft. Not the Rule 5 draft.

by templeUsox on Nov 6, 2005 11:08 AM EST up reply actions

oops

yes you are correct. My goof.

by eastin on Nov 6, 2005 11:24 AM EST up reply actions

Please enter a subject for your comment

"Even though they already had his (Tavarez) rights, they traded for him so they could send him to the minors if they wanted to."

ANd they did for all of 04.

As for the main Q there are generally(emphasis on generally) 2 kinds of Rule 5ers. First you have your young, raw, higher ceiling guys who weren't protected bc their org thought they couldn't stick. These guys, if they somehow miraculously stick, usually go back to AA or AAA the next year before coming back up.

Then you have your older, low celiing guys who are drafted to be cheap, solid bench or bullpen guys. They usually stick around the next year.

by nms on Nov 6, 2005 11:58 PM EST reply actions

Shelton

Shelton was a Rule 5 from Pittsburgh. Detroit kept him on the roster all season in '04 but only played in 27 games with 46ab. I couldnt believe they wasted a roster spot all season for 46ab but they proved me wrong with the season that Shelton had this year.

Blue Jays - '92, '93

by SharpeShooter on Nov 9, 2005 1:20 PM EST reply actions